The Temple Massager Unleashed: Catching Up with Joe Meisch

In this episode, we have the pleasure of once again sitting down with Army Veteran Joe Meisch, an innovator and creator of the remarkable invention known as the Temple Massager. Along with discussing his incredible invention, we also delve into various compelling topics.

Joe begins by updating us on the progress of his Temple Massager invention, a unique and effective solution for relaxation and relief.  We also take a moment to recap Joe's inspiring journey and the challenges he faced along the way, as well as the passion and resilience that led him to create such a groundbreaking product.

In a poignant and candid conversation, Joe shares the profound impact of the Paradise California Fire on his life, and how it shaped his perspective and motivated him to make a difference.  Furthermore, we delve into the invaluable feedback Joe received from first responders who have used the Temple Massager. Discover how this innovative device has had a positive impact on those who face physically and emotionally demanding situations on the frontlines.

In This Episode We Cover:

• Recap of Joe's story

• Impact of the Paradise California Fire on Joe

• Feedback from first responders on the device

Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:

https://www.templemassager.com/

https://roadhomeprogram.org/

Transcript from Episode 110 with Joe Meisch:

Keith McKeever 0:01

Hey, welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast today I've got another past guest come back to join us to give us an update on his business. If you remember a while back, I had the founder of the temple massager, Joe, come on and tell us all about his invention, the temple massager and how it was impacting veterans with, you know, their mental health issues and relieving stress and a lot of other things. I'll let him talk about it. Because it's his passion, his baby, but he's going to share some updates with us. He's got some hot off the press news on it as well. And I know he's going to break down some of the things that he's found kind of talking to the first responder, the police and fire EMT community out there to about what their reaction to his band. So I'm excited to have another conversation with Joe and see what's see what's new. See what the latest and latest and greatest is on the temple massager. So we'll see. See after the introduction. Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. So welcome back, Joe.

Joe Meisch 1:07

Hey, Keith, good to see you. Thanks, man.

Keith McKeever 1:11

Yeah, no problem. And it's always good to catch up with a past guest and, and get the latest and greatest. Get the update. You know, just like the TV shows, you know, where are they now? Here we are, oh, yeah. You know, for those who haven't seen it, you know, you came on I gosh, I didn't even know I should have looked it up and seen exactly what it was. But it was it was a while ago. But you came on to talk to us about your tempo massager. Of course, I left mine we out of reach over there. I'm sure you got yours. Probably handy. But an awesome little device to help with. Well, a variety of different things with mental health and anxiety and stress relief and stuff like that. So pretty cool, pretty cool little device to help with that. But you want to come on and share some stuff, some some latest and greatest. But before we do that, for those who haven't heard your story, give us a little summary and breakdown of of your story.

Joe Meisch 2:08

Absolutely. So yeah, at the end of my Army career, as a combat engineer, I was dealing with a lot of different stress, and I was always clenching my jaw. So I was always achy and my my masseter muscle along my jaw here and then temporalis musculature is up around, you know, the the temporal area. And I was just constantly, you know, getting headaches rubbing my head somewhere down there like that. And I realized that, you know, when you're doing that you're engaging your entire clavicle, humerus, or your upper body is pretty much all engaged to hold your arms up. And I was just thinking, you know, like a caveman or Grunt, if you will, I need a fork stick, you know, that way, I could just hold this thing in one hand and the rest of my elbow yet I get this ripping, killer cranial massage and down into my jaw under my cheekbone. So that was kind of the rough impetus of the device's original thought process where it came from. And I literally went out to buy it. And it did not exist. And so you know, you get that that light bulb thing. Come on on. And you're like, did I discover something that hasn't been created? And I did. And so it was a big, long process. We got a patent on it. And I actually walked away from a budding career in comedy down Hollywood. So, you know, that was kind of a funny moment in my life, no pun intended. But I had to make a choice. Like I couldn't go produce this TV show that Spike TV wanted to buy from me, and I'm working with great people. Hollywood's unbelievable how it got there. You know, I don't have connections in the Hollywood at the time, I didn't. So it was really wild that this happens so fast. And so it came to the point where I couldn't do both. And after 13 years, all my friends are going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan and I was donating terrible massagers. And so I literally walked away from that whole TV world, Hollywood comedy world and a committed to tumble massager. And so, you know, for me, that was one of those big decisive big decision moments big decisive pivot point in my life. Do not regret it one bit. Love the fact that can help people with an idea and a creation. And I did that in honor of two friends of mine that I served with it gave Hall and that was private, Kurdish young. And started first class Michael Malini Curtis passed away in a drowning incident training in the Army Reserve. And then, right after I got out after 13 years, my former engineer unit got deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan and that's where my former supervisor MiCon aleni, who's Ke and Iraq and so he has a lot going on. They're highly emotionally charged, you know. And so then that's where the trouble massager went from donated 5000 around the world, in their name and their honor. And then got us working with Stanford School of Medicine, the VA Palo Alto, California. And that's kind of where it was left off. When you and I were talking,

Keith McKeever 5:29

as you say, as right about that point. Yep. Yeah. So recent news at about that time. And if anybody's curious, I know you on that the first time we talked, you delve a little bit more into that Hollywood story. So if anybody's interested, you gotta go back and listen to that. You've got quite quite a story. It was

Joe Meisch 5:49

fun. I want to have my little footprint down there and a brief moment. But you know, like in the service, you often hear that phrase, being something being part of something that's bigger than yourself. I lived it. And I'm grateful that I stuck with the tumble massager, and forego my desires. Because this truly has delivered something that allows me to experience being part of something that's bigger than myself.

Keith McKeever 6:17

I think it's something we all as veterans, we all understand. Because when we're in we have a mission. And when we're out and a lot of people don't have a mission. And when you find that mission with their simple massagers or me podcasting or anybody else, whatever your mission is, veteran focus or not. You get a little bit of clarity.

Joe Meisch 6:37

And I've said that to other people before I'm like, I know people like civilians that are not veterans, they can't get it on like you have no idea how grateful I am. To have a mission to I just, I'm really grateful that sense of purpose, right? It means a lot when you're coming out of the military. And you understand that capacity and the implications. And so I am really grateful to have a mission to be in a fight because you know, you got to remember I'm a guy in a cabin in the woods. I jokingly refer to my building rice symbol ship and received is I live in a town called Casa Darrow. Right. It's a small mountain community in Northern California. I like to lovingly jokingly refer to this is the Castor Oil Neuroscience Institute.

Keith McKeever 7:29

That sounds very sophisticated. Sounds like a very large scale, high tech sophisticated facility.

Joe Meisch 7:34

Exactly. Because that's what it is. Sure.

Keith McKeever 7:41

Yeah. Definitely sounds like a small town. I'll tell you that. Oh, it is. Definitely can pinpoint that one on a map.

Joe Meisch 7:49

Yeah, it was good for me to get out in the hills. I'm a natural kind of outdoorsman. And I love the outdoors. And so it was a great place for me, but it's home. We set up the business here, we built a building. And that's it. So, you know, now like I was saying we're started working with law enforcement and first responders and it kind of started years ago after the paradise fire. We work with Butte County Sheriff's Department where I've donated I don't know, I think 80 or 90 Tumble massagers after the town, you know, burned off the map that was really horrific. And so I I literally cold call the sheriff's department and it went from there. And we got great feedback from first responders and it was in line with everything we heard from, you know, service members in Iraq and Afghanistan veterans so but that COVID hit you know, right and we know all about that is scuttled everything and so but again, I'm grateful to be in the fight. I have a fight. You know, a lot of people are like, Oh, you work too hard at this blob of us difficult my and if you're trained in any kind of a dig deep, find a reason fiber of your being and being a combat engineer will give you that and I'm grateful to be in a fight. You know, this is not easy. And it's difficult. Nobody wants to hear an innovation coming out of a non government facility, non University facility, non laboratory non Eli Lilly non Johnson and Johnson it's hard for guy like we can break through but I am doing that we are persevering.

Keith McKeever 9:28

Yeah, well, you know, it's those companies have large budgets, large staff research and development, you know, when when they make an announcement like, Oh, hey, look, we look at this cool device that we have or medical advancement, whatever, like the world takes notice because they have the money and the clout to but yeah, when you're very, you know, when you're one person or a small team, it's hard to get a lot of traction, so I can totally understand that.

Joe Meisch 9:57

That really is you end up in a place where you have to pay If for all that, and you know, marketing and advertising costs are really expensive

Keith McKeever 10:06

that it can be, you know, every small business out there, business owner out there knows exactly what you're talking about, no matter what you're trying to sell, trying to cut through that clutter, man. Absolutely. I want to backup to that paradise fire, though. Was that close to you?

Joe Meisch 10:22

Or fairly? I mean, it's like a four hour drive north of me. And so I don't know if you can say that close or not. I mean, California is a huge state. So I guess

Keith McKeever 10:33

for California. For me driving four hours. That's close. Yeah. So that was that was just a couple years before COVID? Or was that right before? COVID?

Joe Meisch 10:42

Yeah, it was like 2017 or 18. That hit and then in the COVID started popping, its ugly head up.

Keith McKeever 10:49

That's the one they have, I think, a pretty good documentary on that one, I think on Netflix, or Hulu or something. Okay.

Joe Meisch 10:55

I know, how didn't Ron Howard do that. I think he was a guy that did that.

Keith McKeever 11:01

I remember seeing it a while back. So as soon as you said that, I was like, Oh, I know that.

Joe Meisch 11:05

Yeah, you know, just getting back to the gravity of things, you know, with the company and what I come across. We went up there and had the meeting, I met with the Butte County Sheriff's Department critical incident stress management team, peer support. That's kind of what they refer to it as. And we did the meeting, it was like 10 o'clock in the morning. And there's about eight or 10 representatives there from the sheriff's department, different service organizations, police department, Sheriff's Department, foundations, you know, nonprofits that support the law enforcement, first responder community up there. And afterwards, I wanted to go drive around and look, you know, around town, and it was ugly. And you got to realize a lot of people passed away and that fire. And it's just horrific, you know, and it, I wanted to do that, because I wanted the gravity of the, of the incident to sit with me. And I want to absorb that. Because I know that you can gain strength through adversity, right. So I've never been shy of jumping into a hard situation where the odds are stacked against you. And doesn't look easy, right? From day one. Tell the saga it's never been easy for me to get a patent. Yeah, it has like a 70 or 80% failure rate. Who's gonna sign up for those odds?

Keith McKeever 12:35

Yeah, we gotta be a little crazy, right? Sure. I'll try it.

Joe Meisch 12:38

Yeah, I gave it a whole shot. And we did it. So I wanted to see the devastation, because it fortified my resolve. And so going through all that was an unbelievable experience, you know, and so through COVID, and all the things that were troublesome and difficult and delay, delay, delay, and that was a good move on my part, to understand and take in the gravity of what it is I'm dealing with, with people, service members, first responders go through what they did, like I was never in combat, okay, I got called from first Gulf War. And then we got demobilization. And then I got out shortly thereafter. And then of course, right after I get out, my unit gets deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. So it helped me understand how my vision can help ya, it'll help and no matter what, and believe me, brother, I've suffered, like I've been through, I was on food stamps for a while, you know, but I never lost focus. And it was because of the gravity and situation and the pain and anguish that people have gone through that to go through as servicemembers as first responders, you know, and so, it helped me go through some really tough time, but I sacrifice you know, and I love that I did it. And a lot of people have told me oh, well, have you been paid yet? You know, and I say, look, have I made money? No. Have I been paid? Yes. And I said it before I'll say it again. It's kind of pay. That's like I have gold bars and platinum and jewels and rubies either you can think of valuable diamonds. My pockets were burst bursting with those things. I just can't show you them. And I can't spend them. But they are the things that I will take to my grave with me because I know I put it out on the line for brothers and sisters.

Keith McKeever 14:46

Totally understandable. I have very similar reasons. You know, why do this podcast you know, I don't I've had a few people tell me you know, hey, I appreciate it. I I love this particular message or that particular message. But, you know, yet to have anybody, you know, anybody really reached out with a very, very profound, you know, like you literally saved my life or you did this or that. But I know that all these little stories now that there's well over 100 Now that there's all these actionable ways where it can really dramatically improve people's lives, if they take the action, you know, it can have a positive impact. And I know that for lots of people out there, if they take the action on it, it will have an impact on their lives one way or another, whether it's a simple massager to help them with that. Or if it's taking somebody's financial advice, or they pick up a book, and they learn something from it, or they take advantage of nonprofits, you know, to get some help, whatever, whatever the case may be, the resources and the informations out there. And, you know, just knowing that, just doing something to put that out there to help people. That's all the pay you need.

Joe Meisch 15:58

That's huge. You know, I've always, like I like to say, you know, not everybody's gonna go through what I went through, right? It's very difficult to get a patent, it's very difficult to prove, you know, a medical device. Can't there be complimentary Alterna alternative medicine, right? Not everybody's going to do that. And that's cool. But that doesn't mean you can't serve. And I always tell people, you feel it down your bond, you want to give more you want to do something, here's what I do, I did just I do it all time, every chance I get to hold the door open for somebody, man. You want to get a quick pay off, psychologically, heart, soul, go hold the door open for somebody, I don't care if they're young or old, who are what they are gonna hold the door open for somebody coming in or out of a building. And they're always gonna say, Oh, thank you, you're gonna say it's my pleasure, grateful to be able to help. And it instantly makes you feel good, you're gonna smile, you're gonna walk back to your car, and you're gonna be like, you know, what, I just served a purpose right on, I'm good. Suddenly, I feel a little bit better. Seriously, it doesn't take much, just not gonna get out of our comfort zone, we got to get into being there for other people, and not be selfish, with our whatever resources or time and be smart about it. I'm not telling you to give your home we got homeless to do something. But you know, just this little things can make a big difference.

Keith McKeever 17:26

Yeah, or even just being consciously aware, if you're out and about, and you run into a cashier that looks like they're having a bad day, or just somebody's down on their luck. And, you know, if you're McDonald's, and there's somebody homeless on the side of the street, you know, grab an extra burger be like, hey, get some extra food, you want it, or so a cashier looks like you're having a bad day, you know, put a smile on your face, it'd be like, Hey, I hope you have a blessed day. You know, you know, just strike up a conversation, distract them, give them a different mood, like, just the little things, you have no idea how much of an impact you can be making on somebody's

Joe Meisch 17:58

life? Absolutely, absolutely.

Keith McKeever 18:01

Just like hold up holding the door, you just never know. That could have an impact on them. Their impact could have they could do something for somebody else, and vice versa. And next thing you know, it's a compound effect that we could all all see somewhere. So

Joe Meisch 18:14

yeah, that was the old phrase go you get more sugar than you do vinegar.

Keith McKeever 18:18

Yeah, something like that. Something along those lines. So how, what kind of feedback have you gotten then on these massages directly from the from the first responders then?

Joe Meisch 18:35

Okay, so kind of already talked about the paradise fire? Yeah. You know, it was headache relief. TMD relief, you know, temporomandibular disorder. People say I have TMJ, what they're referring to is TMD temporomandibular disorder, and sleep aid. And so, you know, we get out of COVID and everything. So lately, you know, here's the news. I've been working with police departments. So I happen to get approached by the chief of police, the Santa Rosa Police Department in California. And he has a 250 officer department. So Chief John Craig and comes up to me at a business event I was invited to speak. And He literally says I think you have something that's going to help with my PTS issues I have with some officers strike I got he says I got all kinds of stress and injury claims and headaches and I think you have something he gives me his business card and get my business card. We go through about three months where the back and forth we end up working with Santa Rosa Police Foundation. We work with Sonoma County Business Alliance and a bunch of different businesses and so basically the Sonoma County Business Alliance. They put out a call to businesses to help pay for temple the saucers that were going to go to Santa Rosa Police Department. And so I contributed some as well. And so we got those I met with Chief John creegan. May 4, two months ago. And he and I met, and I met, he directed me to work with this wellness director at the police department. So I work with him. And then I made I went through the whole thing like how to use it, when we're why how I, we talked about the abstract with our data from Stanford in Palo Alto, that we're still working on completing because again, COVID scuttled it. But he was like, Joe, all these other therapies and treatments and whatever they're, like, $7,500 $30,000, big price tag stuff. And he's like, it's not for

Keith McKeever 20:47

our police department, you know, it's government funded to her taxpayer funded, you know, to, to bite off.

Joe Meisch 20:53

Yeah, well, That'll hurt a city's budget really quick. And so, you know, he says to me, Look, you know, we sent officers on this, I don't know what it was a long weekend, or maybe it's a week long resiliency program for 30 grand. And then three weeks later, they kind of back where they were, because they're, you know, they're under the forces at work, that are back on the job. So whatever, there's limited effect he's talking about and he keeps looking at the top of the software. He's like, this thing's $130 you can show me abstract data from Stanford VA Palo Alto, you've got comp, you got a letter from a Combat Commander, you've got to keep going. I don't want to name them all. But he looks at our data set, let's just say okay, the packet. And he's like, there's nothing to lose. I mean, the city businesses, all these businesses paid for it. You're donating it's I've got nothing to lose. Okay. I was May 4, may 5, Cinco de mio. I pulled over I think I was making a phone call or something. And I got a text from the Santa Rosa Police Department, wellness director. And he says this will set your weekend right to Cinco de Mayo fell on a Friday. And he gives me an email that he got from a police dispatcher. And she says, I had I was at work. I got a migraine so bad that I was preparing to leave work, I had to go home, I couldn't. She couldn't function right. I was issued a temple massager from the wellness director. And I started using it. And she pointed out in the email that she did not look at her computer screen because I told her you have to look like your eyes need to be closed, you can't look at your computer screen needs to tell them as hard you're just counterproductive.

Keith McKeever 22:50

Avoid that white, or that blue screen, whatever it is strange Oh, I just

Joe Meisch 22:53

said you know what, while you're using it or whatever, just let your head look down and look at the floor or close your eyes. Just don't look at your computer screen. So she's I liked the fact that she clarified that she didn't look at the computer screen. And she says My migraine was gone within 10 to 15 minutes, and I stayed on the job. And she said I have chronic migraines. So I look forward to taking this home. You know, there's another attribute of the device. It's look, if this thing is going to go to Ford operating bases, and around the world, you know, then obviously it's gonna go home and go to work, go to school. So it's highly portable.

Keith McKeever 23:32

It's very lightweight, extremely lightweight. You can use anywhere,

Joe Meisch 23:37

Shai on the wellness director, he added his commentary. And he says Joe, excuse me. So Joe, you saved her pain. You saved her sick leave time. And you saved the police department a staffing shortage on a holiday. And that's huge.

Keith McKeever 23:57

It's probably time and a half or something.

Joe Meisch 23:59

So yeah, it's like, I think I wrote back and I said something like, so was it worth 130 bucks, I gave him a discount. But you know, the retails 130. So I just said, What do you think it's worth 130 bucks. And he said the value is 100% on our side, your price is ridiculous, compared to what benefit we're getting. So that was recent. On top of that, so when I got that in writing and dated, it's documentable. They're gonna give me the full update here at the end of this month, by the way. So they're talking about reordering now. So since that happened, I have basically gone across the country to contact police to form departments. And some departments have money from wellness thanks. Some people, some departments don't. Some people don't even pay attention to what you're doing. So it's a hit and miss kind of thing. But we are working with code four out of Colorado. Code for radio talk is I'm okay. Officer Okay, right. So this was serendipitous I get a phone call about a month ago or so from code for I think, in Colorado Springs. And the PhD there says, Hey, I was hoping to talk to you about buying tumbled massagers. And I said, Yeah, no problem, how'd you find my company? And she says, Well, you contacted us a year ago. And then we got a sample. And we've started using it. And nothing relieved facial muscle. She said nothing relieved PTS related facial muscle tension, like the tumble massager and we want to start buying and buy the case. And so I sold her case on the spot. They're collecting feedback. And so what what she, as she said, we work with complex PTS people that are dealing with complex PTS, first responders and combat veterans. And so that's amazing, right. And that was serendipitous. And then, so I've reached out across the country. And now we're working with and it's initial, you know, sort of have a lot of feedback. But we've had samples requested by Boston Police Department, their wellness director. And just the other day, I was asked for a meeting with Cincinnati Police Department, and they have their fire district wellness officer on the call as well. And you know, at the end of these calls, when I explain everything and go through and answer questions, I asked him, you know, does this sound like something you're interested in? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Can you know, Can I offer you a sample device just for your examination and use? And I'm here to support it. Please do? Yeah, we want to sample. So there's various departments, those are just some big names. And, you know, working a path across the country, man, like, I think what does that highway 80, roughly? So that's about right. Yeah, we're going through from California, all the way to Boston and in between. And so the big news is that I'm happy to share with you right now is that through some work of mine was Chicago VA and Jesse Brown, VA. There's a couple people there that I'm communicating with. They got a device a sample, I was back in Chicago, I can't remember November, I think, last year, and they got a device. And it got passed to a couple of different VA people. And then it got passed to a Marine Corps combat veteran who works at the road home. And the road home is a big group that has, I think, four different locations, UCLA, Boston, university, Miami, and Rush University of Chicago. They're funded by the Wounded Warrior Project, and the Chicago Bears, amongst others, you know, big name people, I'm sure. And they work with veterans that are dealing with complex pts. And the cool thing about their program is they work with the families as well, which I think is important. Nobody shouldn't be tackling this alone, you got to reach out to your support network. If you don't have family, Find it. Find your community, find some family, we're all brothers and sisters, you know, we got this veteran bond. So my love for my brothers sisters is right out there in front of word on my sleeve, you know, so even if you don't have a family find it, it's out there. So, um, I got them. I did a class with them on Zoom. And I work with a combat veteran Marine Corps female, and she says, Hey, I've been using the same for like two months. And I'm like, That's awesome. I had no idea. And so, you know, that kind of goes to show and how easy it is to use and all that. And so, today, I got an order to buy a handful of tumble massagers and carry cases for the road home and Chicago, and they're going to use it for us headache relief, and for Tandy so, you know, it goes back into massaging your masseter in your temporalis and right around the eyes, and right in front of the ears is really critical. And if you're playing along and if you're mindful and you're practicing deep breathing, and you're not looking at a computer screen, you know, ideally you're just letting your eyes close your mouth hanging open so all this musculature is not engaged. She got it and it worked for her. So she took it into Road Home leadership and Chicago and they just wrote me today and they asked me to become a vendor. So my company now How's your vendor the road home. And it couldn't be happier. Because it's a, it's a big organization. They're well appreciated. They're well supported by a lot of big organizations here in the country. And so I'm just really excited to be able to work with an organization of that caliber, and find out that we're helping them. And you know, that goes back to me, saying thanks to Curtis and Mike, because they're still serving me through the other side, from the other side, if you will. And I mean that. So that's, that's the big news for today. I'm really stoked.

Keith McKeever 30:36

That's awesome. That's definitely huge news man and knowing that those are gonna be put to good use. And of course, we will know that it's not going to help with just headaches and Tod.

Joe Meisch 30:49

We don't know. Yeah, somebody's always comes in, they say, my sinuses clear up, you should sell this thing for sinuses. I got a video from a lady since I talked to you. And she has built policy. And she, I said had a really I've had people telling me it helps build policy. But can I get a video testimonial on you if I donated a device you and she did and she gave me a video and she goes through and talking about it. So you're right. There's so much connectivity with all the facial muscle that overlaps like your eye musculature comes back, you know, your temporalis goes down the masseter goes up. This is the most complex joint human body, your temporomandibular joint. So, there's a lot going on. And yeah, other people, they'll say, hey, it helped me with my tinnitus. You know, I did a video and a review with a guy who rewiring tinnitus. He's a social media influencer and say what you will about people like that take up their place, right? They're trying to help for the most part. And his focus is tinnitus. Well, he put a video out talking about the device after he used it for three, four months. And lo and behold, now I've been selling them with his discount code all over the place. That's been two years ago. So you're right, people will find other things that they find the tub themselves are helpful for, which is great, because that's like, discovery for me. You know, it's it's real discovery.

Keith McKeever 32:25

Yeah, I mean, well just, you know, even PTS just taking that break the the act of

Joe Meisch 32:36

disengaging, letting your awareness go down for a minute.

Keith McKeever 32:39

Exactly. Just just just changing your behavior and your focus on whatever, whatever was stressing you or triggering you to putting something else in your hand and changing your activities, changing your mindset doing something else, you know, that's

Joe Meisch 32:53

just the just break that vigilance break that if you're stuck in a negative intrusive thought, and it's bugging you, you know, and I've been through because my buddy cursed route, and I was 20 years old man, he was an 18 year old kid from Oakland. And for a long time, I'd beat myself up and at some point, I was like, I don't think this is a good idea, you know, because it led me to drink it too much and trying to bury it and you know, this is why I'm really grateful to topple Assad because it gives me a purpose you know, and so yeah, breaking the vigil it's, it's great for negative intrusive thoughts distraction, especially if you use the aromatherapy on the temple massage or you know, it's got this little pad right here, you just dropped the lavender on it. And then so as I'm using this, obviously the pads like right under my nose, so that's all factory nerve stimulation in case you didn't notice either big olfactory nerve so being able to break your focus on a negative intrusive thoughts really important, and there's a million ways you can do it tumbles off just happens to be wonderful.

Keith McKeever 34:02

Absolutely. And that's, that's what's key. I mean, that's what keep can keep literally somebody here alive for tomorrow. That's kind of when I met with, you know, this, this new news today, you know, it's, it's not not just going to help veterans with TMD and some headaches, we know that they're there probably deal with PTS and other issues, right? That it's inevitably going to help with or just relieving tension, and just relaxing because there's nothing quite like just being relaxed. And what that does for you, just versus just walking around with just tension in you all the time. Like it's not good for your body, like your body in general, let alone your face. Like you just yeah, we

Joe Meisch 34:46

little stress can manifest into physical ailments. It will also wear down your teeth like mine, and I've cracked a couple. And so stress will manifest into physical ailments that It's just a matter of fact. So the longer people go without addressing it. And again, I'm not just sitting here trying to sell 12 massage, you can go workout, right, you can go take a walk, but anything you do to break your vigilance, break that negative intrusive thought, try to elicit the relaxation response, you know, need to elicit that parasympathetic nervous system. Get into that meditative state, if you can. And that is relaxation is called the relaxation response. And so anytime that somebody has been through trauma, whether you're a first responder, civilian veteran, that stuff is bad stuff. It could be a car accident, it could be violence, you witness violence, who knows what it is. So just we have the right as people to live the rest of our lives without having, you know, our past, present or future. And so anyway, so many can break that cycle of having their past affect their future is a big self help component, and overall mental health picture. You know, it's helped massager just happens to help with some of the effects of PTS PTS is a big name, brand overarching term and what it really comes down to sleeplessness headaches, you're over tensing this cracked teeth. TMD grinding, right and I've lived it brother, my teeth, anger, irritability, I mean, gosh, you're off, you're irritable. You're looking for ways out, you're looking for a bad guy. And you're like, Man, I'm I'm at the grocery store. I don't know that I need

Keith McKeever 36:50

Why am I so hyper vigilant at the grocery store? Like zash, just the 90 year old lady in the next aisle, and there's the butcher over there passing out some shrimp and it's not really right here. You know,

Joe Meisch 37:01

this is okay. You know, yeah. Or if you're in an environment where you need your vegetables, you better pick that up. Okay. But yeah, we're not talking about that. We're not going tactical, we're not going, you know, water, we're going you know, here's the bottom line. I love this. There's there's a police department that they had a phrase it said something like take taking care of yourself ensures a caregivers ability to give care, something like that, right. So if you want to look at it, like, like me, I've always tried to be an asset to other people, I just see myself as serving my fellow human beings here, you know, and I'm grateful I got an idea and a tool to do that with but this is a person, you know, find it find a sense of purpose again, right? So anyway, I don't want to wax on too much here.

Keith McKeever 37:57

Yeah, but you have to take care of yourself. Yeah, take care yourself, you have to take care of yourself, for other people to be able to take care of you. Because if you don't take care of yourself, and you make it a pain in the butt, then how can a caregiver ever possibly take care of you?

Joe Meisch 38:08

No, they're not. And that's when you find yourself alone, which is sad. Because, you know, people that are really angry and tight and pissed off, or what do you want to call it, they're probably hurting. And they really could use the care of the tension. So if you can try to get yourself into a better spot, whatever means that makes you available for other people. And then if you could turn it around to make yourself you know, be in a better spot, well, then guess what you can go help other people. Go go find somebody that's going through what you went through your vigilance is out of control, you're, you're angry or whatever, but you got through it, you work through it. Well go give that gift to somebody else. Now, go find a person like Yun gently try to see if you can help them ease out of the ultra vigilance, you know, and, and do some tactical, calming, you know, whatever it takes.

Keith McKeever 39:06

Yeah, figure out whatever, whatever you can help somebody with because it, you know, it could be it could be anything that causes cause and something you also have to keep in mind if there's a root there's ways that those things kind of manifest themselves physically, you know, physically, and then you know, communication. But then there's an effect of what those you know, does in somebody's life to, you know, it affects your work and your relationships and those kinds of things. So, it's, it's crazy, what mental health and all that stuff and we all find ourselves in this world like, it's veterans. We all we all sign on the dotted line to serve our country and to serve. And here we are serving others in a different capacity. Now, we're talking about first responders who serve Like, it's just, I don't know, what says be in our blood somehow.

Joe Meisch 40:04

Yeah, a lot. A lot of veterans are the first were first responder community, for sure. Big, big veteran population in that community. So yeah, find a find a reason to serve. You know, I guess if I had an overarching message to people that might find themselves, frustrated with life, frustrated with themselves feeling disappointed or negative, you know, find a reason to serve. Again, if it's you opening a door for little lady, then go do it. Make it happen.

Keith McKeever 40:33

And I had another question for you. Because you've kind of mentioned police, you kind of mentioned fire earlier. But have you had any, any connections with or any feedback from the nursing community? Because you mentioned COVID. Earlier, and we know how stressful that was on the medical community? Oh, yeah. Have you gotten any feedback from the medical community? Because as we were kind of talking about that, I was like, Man, I could totally see just nursing. I mean, I remember the pictures and videos during COVID have just completely worn out medical staff. And I was getting a visual in my head of like, man, could they have used that? Talk about it now? And they're talking about

Joe Meisch 41:11

overtaxing, right? Yeah, yeah, I have individual RNs registered nurses that have used it, I've actually got feedback from a dental study that we did on TMD. And one of them was a registered nurse. And so the problem I have with getting into that community is your never gonna get it done individually, like me going and talking to a nurse and RN, did it help her to devise helper? Yeah. Is she going to turn around and go into the hospital? Get them to listen? No, she's already taxed out, she's not going to take or he, he or she, you're not going to take that task, and that workload to go work this in? So my, you know, my focus is, what can I cause effect in right now. And right now, it's veterans and working with the VA and first responders. I'd love to get into working with medical staff, because I know it'll help them. I've already got feedback from medical staff, it's just really difficult to get hospitals and universities to pay attention to get their attention, you know, everybody's so washed over with sales pitches. tchotchke. You know, just BS people, and I get it people are trying to sell and make a

Keith McKeever 42:30

living. Make sense, especially in a hospital setting. Yeah,

Joe Meisch 42:33

they didn't want to make oil, Bs, and they're, you know, existence or their realm. So at some point, I will try to pivot into, you know, I don't know, maybe I would go to, like nurses unions, try to find union reps. Hospitals, man, I thought I'd get into VA was tough.

Keith McKeever 42:57

I guess that makes sense. Think about their organizational structure, and how much

Joe Meisch 43:01

you can't even get to any of these people. Like, they want you to take your call, man. And believe me, I've tried, I've blasted my face on the brick wall. Again, I will fight for other people. And I have never gotten any civilian hospitals. Now I have had a representative of Kaiser research. Tell me, Joe, the second year pilot studies complete, I will engage with you. Right now I can't engage with you because you don't have a completed pilot study. And so we're working on that with Palo Alto VA and working with this great guy. He's a PhD Dr. Sean McQuaid out of Palo Alto. And so it's really difficult to get into the medical establishment and for all kinds of reasons, probably somebody that acknowledged but you know, make sense now. Yeah, I'm gonna try I'm not giving up. It's just I have to, you know, pace myself and calibrate what good can I cause and so when I get traction, like we are from law enforcement, and fire and and obviously the VA and and Psychological Services groups, like, you know, the road home code for I'm talking to another company, where they call first responder wellness on Long Beach, they claim to be the biggest psychological services company out there for resilience and first responder community. When I get traction, I give them my attention when I get a brick wall, okay, that's going to be dealt with later, right now, and sometimes you got to bypass the target and the military sense, you know, and go back to it or encircle them, right? The pincer move, where would you have you want to further this? That's kind of my long way of getting into a first a hospital organization is I need to kind of surround them with a little bit, you know, and so, me being able to tell you that I'm working with the road home is a big part of that. So a lot of sense, we're gonna get there at some point, because here's what will happen. It'll switch over. I've already seen this. Well, it's being used over here, here and here and here, XYZ and these individual organizations or facilities, why don't we have it? Instead of? Oh, well, Joe, your little Tableau massager tool hasn't really proven itself. And, you know, we can't deal with you because you're not ready, you know, you're just stakeholders right now, or whatever the case may be. It's starting to flip over now, you know, and so people are like, Well, you've got an all these different locations with police fired, you know, veterans, psychological services, organizations, etc. Now, I started hearing people go, Well, why don't we have it?

Keith McKeever 45:48

I love how you answer that, because I just had a couple of thoughts there. At first, I was thinking, Well, hey, you gotta manage your stress, but then be, you know, you got to, you know, you got to help, you know, whoever. And however you can, like, what's who you can help. But then you, you know, we're talking about a brick wall. And I was thinking, like, from a security standpoint, like, what is my hard target my soft target, like, if it's just too hard at this point to get into the hospitals all go after the soft target? Well, small little police departments, fire departments where the community helps buy it, or they have the budget to be able to do it. And you can actually talk to somebody not to make that sound like it's a soft target, like, but it's just, it's easier to get in the door, and you can make the bigger impact, and you can actually get it in somebody's hands. And you can impact people's lives and save people's lives. And then we'll let the dominoes fall. And once you get, you know, X amount, it, it crosses over into just like general business strategy to like, if you want to grow your business. Starting out like you can't just go after the biggest, you know, if you take a geographic area, you can't go after the biggest account. I mean, you could, yeah, no track record, they're probably not going to hire you. You're gonna

Joe Meisch 47:00

have a wildcard approach. But yeah, you got to

Keith McKeever 47:03

go after a bunch of other little accounts, and you got to go get the business that you can't, you have to build that track record until that competitor sits up and says, Hey, this is Joe guy and his product. I like this, because I've heard all of this other chatter out there about this. I've seen the social proof. I you know, I know what's going on now. And then they approach you, you know, the indie game plan. So I love that it's kind of pieced all that together. As you're talking to my head. I'm like, Oh, I love this. Yeah,

Joe Meisch 47:31

yeah, it's a good picture. There's a lot of moving parts, you know. And so for me, I have to be able to keep it in my head. And I've got people closely told me Oh, you gotta get a spreadsheet, you got to put it all out. Like, I have the mind for it all. It is all documented. I have logbooks I can read, refer to documentation, feedback, and my own extemporaneous notes, etc. Right. So, but yeah, you got to, I'll get back to the medical community at some point. Like it or not, the pilot study being completed a big part of that. And we're still, you know, trying to get that done. I'm always reaching out to researchers and PhDs institutions, but at some point, it is a hard target in a business sense. And then, you know, once you get enough of these other entities on board, and then people like I said, they're going to start switching over go, why isn't it here? Why don't we have access to this tool or this device. And so right now we've got our telco massage or highway I like to call it going across the country from Santa Rosa, Colorado, Santa Cruz, California Colorado's code for we're just landed today starting to work with the rode home. And they want to they were talking about, shared it with their other four entities. Well, it happens to be UCLA, Boston. University of Miami might be another one. But, you know, once it gets into one bigger group, and they see it working to help, and then they're gonna grow it internally, right? So if I can, if I can land Cincinnati, PD and or fire and I can land Boston, which we're on the verge of, I mean, my point of contact there. He basically looked at everything and said, I'm in like, he's like, I'm ready to buy 10 of these right now. Give me a sample. Let's get it over to this operations chief at the Wellness and blah, blah, blah, and we'll go from there. So I that's roughly like highway 80 across the country. So it's kind of ended up that way for me with who we're working with. So I've got the tough massager highway ad mode going on. And I'm hoping to land last to Ohio and out there in Boston and we'll be across the country. It literally it from that point, if you want to call them flanking movements will go north and south.

Keith McKeever 50:06

Here yo, there's a there's a new business strategy for you just just run your business down at the route 66 Or pick another whatever whichever direction you want even North Dakota highway, just roll maybe just just go up and down the highway. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 50:24

I don't think that was in the college textbooks. You just keep creating some new stuff there, Joe? Yeah,

Joe Meisch 50:29

well, you know, that's the beauty of creating a new product is there's all these different new terminologies, phrases, new applications, it's new. That's the beauty of innovation is that once you get it, and you kind of prove it like we have, then there's still discoveries to be made. There's still new things to be new phrases, right? So it's kind of exciting in that sense to have that live wire of activity in my life. And again, that's why I'm also grateful. I've got that spark, if you will, that live wire potential. So we are creating language situations us. It's all spring from one innovative idea from the temple massager.

Keith McKeever 51:16

Yeah, I'm assuming you probably agree with this a lot of struggling forward a lot of little fails here and there to learn these little lessons in order to be like, Okay, well, this didn't work. Now we're going to try this and cool. Now that works. All right, now we're gonna

Joe Meisch 51:29

be able to pivot quick I was, you know, I was, I guess, affiliated with the infantry because I was a combat engineer. But that ability to move light means you can pivot quickly. And you don't have a bunch of checklists and people to go through to get okays and permission. I'm the leader of the ship here. I'm the captain, the CEO, founder weather, and I get to make decisions freely. So I like that light, capacity of engagement for me to go out and pivot quickly as possible as I can. And so it helps to keep things light in a certain sense, you know, big corporations, they gotta pass everything by, you know, who knows how many committees and how many people and I'm lucky I don't have to go through that, you know, so. And it's interesting, too. I got really great feedback. We're helping people again, first responders, veterans. And I to this day, I could still never get an investor on board. But I don't know that it was a good idea. If I did. I remember I met with Matt and Griff McGriff, he made combat flip flops. You remember that guy? I can't remember that. Yeah, he was I met him at a bunker labs event. And he was there because he was a shark tank winner. And a bunch of other guys were there. I got the guy that made the grunt style t for t shirts Daniel lark and that Daniel there. So there's one minute I'm sitting next to Matt and I'm like Matt, and your experience of being on the Shark Tank and everything you're doing and you're growing your business. Give me your I'm thinking about taking investor I'll give me your take on you know what it's like to get an investor and work with them. And I swear to God, I'm telling you the stone cold truth, Matt looks at me. And he says, Joe, I'm going to be Stone Cold honest with you. I would rather have your big ass. I'm like six for 240 He's like, I'd rather have your big ass stop on my nuts than ever take money from an investor again. It's funny, it's silly. But the guy speaking truth. So I've always been like, Man, I wanted to get an investor and make it easy to change things and accelerate and pour racing fuel on the thing. And then I'm like, maybe I don't, you know, keep thinking about what Matt said, you know, it's got some validity, validity and truth in that. So here we are. I'm still doing this independently. I have a couple of friends and invested that was about it. So we're dependent made USA 100% veteran owned, I got rich since I saw you I got registered as a service disabled veteran owned small business with the VA. That's a tough thing to get. And then I've got registered with the state of California Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise. So we got her two certifications. DVBE and the service disabled veteran owned business with the VA and state of California.

Keith McKeever 54:19

So what were the biggest challenges to getting those for anybody else? Who's kind of thinking about going down those those paths and getting those? Get? I've heard that before that they're challenging.

Joe Meisch 54:31

Yeah, the state one was a lot easier. Just put it that way. You know, they want to look at your taxes. They want to make sure you're a viable entity that you exist, you know, understandable, because the VA has a veteran's first program which I'm still navigating not exactly there yet, but we have sold to defeat and try to rekindle all that it's paperwork man to get a paper yet. You gotta have all these taxes. I think three to five years back taxes. They want to see all that It's just a lot of paperwork, a lot of certifying, you know, they're gonna come back at you say, we need this, we're gonna come back to you, we need that. So it is a pain. But the other thing is there's a lot of people tried to scam the VA and other people. So they gotta go through a filter process, they have to make it tough. And that's why it's tough.

Keith McKeever 55:21

So knowing that it's tough, it's half the battle and being prepared for the fight. Sounds like just about every experience with the VA. Yeah,

Joe Meisch 55:30

it's doable. You know, if it's worth doing, you know, you want to put the energy out, right? If it was easy, everybody be doing it. So there's a

Keith McKeever 55:39

good point. That's, that's a darn good point that everybody would be doing it. So Well, Joe, I really appreciate you coming on here and kind of give us an update. And I'm gonna throw the website up here, just scrolling at the bottom. So it's in the shownotes for anybody who's listening or anybody's watching. clickable link down there. But anything else that you want to share with us any any other updates? Any other news?

Joe Meisch 56:03

No, that's kind of the you know, don't want to go on too much. We got a lot cookin. But those are the high points, and I'm really excited about it.

Keith McKeever 56:10

Awesome. Well, I will say, you know, I've had mine here. Ever since after we recorded the first one. And, you know, everybody really should if you don't have one, you should get one. If especially if you have well, we'll go through the whole list of things. But if you have any things we mentioned today, it's worth getting one, you know, it can really, really help you

Joe Meisch 56:31

facial muscle tension relief. That's kind of how I put it in a nutshell. There you go.

Keith McKeever 56:35

Facial muscle tension relief. Yes. That doesn't exactly roll off my tongue as fast as he does yours. But yeah, it's it's really good for that. I have mine right there in my little bookshelf, right here, my office. So it's a great little tool. And it's something that like you said earlier, it is lightweight. It's super, I don't know what the actual actual weight is. But it's it's only what, maybe 12 inches longer. So roughly eight inches long. 15 Okay, I was I was figuring about it.

Joe Meisch 57:03

I mean, maybe it's, it's an edge and diameter. This is ballistic nylon. You know, I think since I talked to you, I made it stronger, by the way. So we increase the strength of the arms, because I was getting a little flex out of this. So it's even better now.

Keith McKeever 57:19

Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's solid, it's lightweight. I mean, you could throw it in any backpack, if you know, you're not going to feel it in there. It's not going to weigh it down. So yeah, it's not like it's some device that you're gonna have to plug in and lug around and it's going to be heavy, or it's gonna take sophisticated stuff it there's no real learning curve to using. No,

Joe Meisch 57:45

it's simple. I mean, we got it. I guess, folks, it was it was light enough and sturdy enough. And the fact that manuals not battery operated, we are going to make it vibrate, though that's that's in the works. It you know, it was taken a Ford operating bases. That says a lot. If you know anything about military, they're not going to take frivolous stuff out to fob. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 58:07

you know, the thing I like about it is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of treatments for a lot of these different things. There's a lot of devices that you can get that are expensive. Whether or not the VA gets injured, you got to go pay for yourself, like they're expensive, they take up space, sometimes you have to buy a lot of stuff to replace things. It can get frustrating. You know, like, if you

Joe Meisch 58:31

said positive is what I was striving for with this whole thing, man, keep it simple.

Keith McKeever 58:36

Yep. Yep, the old the old kiss method, right? Keep it simple, stupid, or whatever. So exactly. Anyway, I highly encourage anybody to, you know, struggle with those issues to get one or if you have a loved one that struggle with those might be a good time to get one or two. And Chris Christmas is coming up in a few months. I know, we're middle of the year, but hey, you know, you know, just the exact role of Christmas banner,

Joe Meisch 59:01

you know, as we just talked about, you started Christmas too early.

Keith McKeever 59:03

You know what, hey, it's Yeah, so what if it's the middle of summer I, you know, hey, don't know when people are going to actually listen to this. So just in case, it's the middle of winter, and it's Christmas time buy for Christmas, if it's close to a birthday. Exactly. But anyway, I do appreciate you to come back on here, Joe, and kind of share it with us. It's exciting to hear that, you know, not only you're taking it from the veteran community but getting some traction here in the first responder community because man Have they had they had a rough rough couple of years, the old COVID and, you know, a lot of different things overlap everything else you deal with. Yep. It's a job that I wouldn't want to do. I when I got out of the Air Force, I had a lot of people my family, like you're gonna continue on in law enforcement. I was like, nope, not for me. And so I know a little bit of what it takes to do their job. And that was enough for me to say no, I don't want to do that long term. So yeah, I've always say hats off to them for doing what they do. They say deserve it, they need it. And they need that stress relief to be able to do their job and option, you know, operate to the best ability. So, absolutely. So I appreciate you coming on sharing with us again.

Joe Meisch 1:00:13

All right, good. Great to see you again. Hope to come back on another few months or a year and have more to share

Keith McKeever 1:00:19

with you. Absolutely. Take it easy, Joe.

Joe Meisch 1:00:23

All right, brother. Thanks again. You'd be well

Keith McKeever 1:00:26

here we have folks hope you enjoyed that. And once again on my website, if there's not a resource on everything should be please reach out, let me know. But most importantly, since we're talking about a lot of health stuff, and mental health today, if you're struggling, and you really need help, remember the suicide hotline number is 980 Press one because the most important thing is we want you here tomorrow battle buddies. You gotta be here tomorrow. Reach out for help. That's the number to call get to help you