Navigating Life, Transition & Empowering Others
In this episode, we have the honor of sitting down with Marine Corps Veteran Shawn Murphy, who shares his unique perspectives on handling the demands of a busy life, challenges he faced with military recruiting duty, parenting while juggling busy schedules, and the qualities that make a great mentor and mentee.
Whether you're interested in military life, parenting with a demanding schedule, or fostering mentorship relationships, this episode has something for everyone. Tune in now to hear from Shawn and gain valuable insights on recruiting duty, parenting, and the art of mentorship.
In This Episode We Cover:
Challenges of handling a busy schedule
Difficulties of parenting with a busy schedule
How can you be a good mentor to battle buddies who are about separate or retire
Two thoughts on what makes a great mentee
Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-above-the-bar-podcast/id1521098431
https://www.facebook.com/theabovethebarpodcast
Transcript from Episode 109 with Shawn Murphy:
Keith McKeever 0:00
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast. And hey, today I've got a one another wonderful guest on, we're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, business transition some of those difficulties, how to be a good mentor, how to help people do the transition.
You know how to handle the demands of workload and some of those things. So I've got a lot of love to talk about a lot that I think every single one of us has experienced or does experience and kind of deals with in one way, shape, or form. It affects all of our lives. So it's something you definitely want to pay attention to. So without further ado, let's dive into it. Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. So today's guest is Sean Murphy. Welcome to the show, Sean.
Shawn Murphy 0:43
Thank you, Keith. And I love your opener. I love the way it comes in. I love that.
Keith McKeever 0:46
I appreciate it. Thank you. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your military journey.
Shawn Murphy 0:52
So I did 20 years in the Marine Corps retired as a gunnery sergeant enlisted in 1994 and retired in 2014. And I you know, I was
I did a lot of came, I got to watch the Marine Corps make some transition. So I saw different Marine Corps over that time, and I went from a service that hadn't seen combat and years to 911 to post 911. And I was a motor team mechanic when I started, then lat moved to avionics on ch 50 threes, and then did recruiting duty for three years left went back to avionics, and I knew I was never going to pick a multimeter up again. That was not going to happen. So I went back on recruiting duty and retired out as I like to say, doing the devil's work. I did a rest of my career as a career recruiter. Yeah, you know, we talked the first time I told you I knew I know a couple guys that guys and gals that did recruiting duty and hats off to those folks. I know that is a very demanding, very difficult job.
Keith McKeever 2:01
Because you're trying to convince kids who don't have a clue what they're doing in life, or what direction they're headed, to sign up for something bigger than themselves. For jobs they don't know anything about. It's Yeah. That'd be a tough job. You know, there's lots of jobs in military but I can I can only imagine outsider's perspective that be very tough, you know, things I've seen. So
Shawn Murphy 2:25
yeah, it's it's a definitely I'll tell you probably one of the biggest things is, he used to tell people, I have two hours to change 18 years of what your parents parents have been telling you. And I've got two hours to punch holes in it and fill it full the Marine Corps, and it was different, you know, it's just it. It's the only job that I ever saw where I had combat veterans quit. People that had bullets fired at them quit because a teenager told them to kiss their ass.
Keith McKeever 3:02
That will be a little difficult to handle, especially if you know if you're used to do you know that you have structure in the military, right? Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, sergeant, you know, here's a lawful order. You're gonna go do it. You know, nobody really tells you. You might hear no, every now and then for some reason, but nobody really tells you no. Not that way of No, definitely not that way. Have nobody ever tells you to fuck off. So, yeah, that would be it would be difficult. That'd be tough to hear. I think for anybody. Okay, like, I mean, there's rejection. And then there's like, I was totally rejected by this, like, 17 or 18 year old kid who just told me to screw off. And like, you know,
Shawn Murphy 3:44
and the way we were bred to deal with that conversation. I don't know what that because you were Air Force. Air Force. Yeah. I don't know what you guys call it, but we would call it like going behind the woodshed or behind the paint locker or something like that, where you just kind of you let Chevron's lay on the ground and you've settled the issue. You can't do that. You can't do that as a 27 year old sergeant staff sergeant to a 17 year old kid at a high school was like, Screw you, man. I ain't doing that.
Keith McKeever 4:16
I can't break out that knife hand. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, they haven't they haven't earned a knife hand yet, though. Yeah, that's, that would be very, very difficult. I'm sure the conversations with parents would be difficult to they were different
Shawn Murphy 4:30
and unique. And I think what you and I talked about when we first met it was you know, the conversations were things like, oh, Johnny's not doing that. He's, he's too smart for that. And then you're like, just call me an idiot. Like, I don't I don't understand that. And parents start stumbling over their words or you get the typical questions of I don't want them to do that. I don't want him to die. And you're like, Do you know the statistics on teenagers and Drinking and driving and dying in a car where they're more likely he drove here and there like, I didn't I didn't think about that. I didn't put that together so it uncomfortable conversations. But I will also tell you that parents were my best advocates also. It makes a lot of sense. I had a cup. I had a young man, I'll never forget it. He wasn't even my he was one of the my Marines candidate, his pulley that was supposed to go to boot camp, and the kid got his first girlfriend got his first taste of some lovin. And
Keith McKeever 5:34
he was like out the door. Right? He
Shawn Murphy 5:36
couldn't moonwalk out fast enough. So I said to my Marine, his staff started Wilson was his name. No Wallace Wallace. And he was a Jamaican Marine. He was like, going to he's not going and I'm like, we'll take care of this, bro. Don't worry about it. So I said, Did you talk to his mom yet? Because I knew the mom had spoken to her before. He said now hadn't spoke to her to call her up and tell her what, what he told you. He said, All right. She was gunning. She wants to meet us now. All right, let's go. So we drove it was like a 3040 minute drive to her house. We got there. Good wasn't there. He called her up and goes, come home. Now. He has Ahmet Susie's house, whatever her name was. She said get home now. Now they lived in twin valleys Pennsylvania. In a trailer park. It was nice enough, but mom knew where she was. He walks through the door. He goes, we're sitting there and he's like, head down. She goes, Do you tell him you ain't go into boot camp? Yeah, I'm not going no more. Suzy nice. She goes, not a problem. Go and pack your stuff. He's like what she owes. You ain't staying here with me. You got a couple months till you graduate. You're either gonna go to boot camp, or you're gonna get out of my house. But you're not going to live with me. I didn't raise. I raised you to be a man. You ain't staying here with me. But mom, but Mom, you go into boot camp. But you get now go to boot camp. He shipped he went to boot camp. I don't know, whatever happened to him. But my mom was our advocate because mom was like, you're trying to throw your life away for some 18 year old girl that you didn't you just met just? Yeah, it was great.
Keith McKeever 7:23
It sounds like there was a lot of life experiences there where she was probably like, Look, man, you can't go down the same path and life, you know, cake. I don't want you to be in the same kind of boat. Exactly know that I am 20 years from now. So I can see where a lot of parents would be like that. Or maybe parents, parents who had served in one capacity or like Nasaan you're going to do this or daughter, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, like you. You know, like when I enlisted my stepdad was was Air Force in Vietnam. Like he was the reason I chose Air Force. You know, cuz, because our army recruiter called me and he was. Yeah, I was thinking about it. And my stepdad came home, like I knew not to bring it up to my mom. And so I talked to him. And I'm like, What do you think? And he goes, Well, do you want to sleep on the ground? I don't really usually want to have good quality of life. And I'm like, Well, yeah. My question is that he goes, Well, the way I see you got two choices, you got the Navy or the Air Force. And I got to thinking I was like, well, not much for water. Being on these big giant ships out of middle of nowhere. It doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun to me. And I thought well, Air Force seemed treat you alright, so kind of a slam dunk. That's how I chose the Air Force all crowded in recruiter's office and, you know, kind of the rest is history. So you know, but I, you know, there's probably a big, big advocate, if would have been just my mom. A conversation definitely would have would have learned differently. You know, she was hesitant. She She was asking my recruiter out, does he have to deploy? You know, markers like well, but maybe maybe not, you know, he might have a choice, because it's the Air Force, you know? Yeah, that was a lie. I went into security forces. I was tasked for deployment for I ever left tech school. So but it is what it is. So the sad part is we weren't saying same career field. He was security forces as well. And he flat out lied. And he got me with ATV videos. And Oh, nice. Yeah, he suckered man. You know, it wasn't really a lie. I mean, there are ATVs in the career field. But they don't tell you is that the supply to supply guys as for guys, they're the ones who get them. And they're the only ones that they control who gets the driver's license certificates to operate them. And when they actually break them out to use them. They're obviously the only ones certified to use them. So they get the nice cushy jobs. So, you know, maybe 10 years 1215 years anyway, if you might get lucky enough to
Shawn Murphy 9:58
that that was the efos and In the Marine Corps, the foreign observers for artillery units, they would get told, like, you know, we have we have dirt bikes, we have, you know, 250s 350s. And these guys were like, Yeah, you have, you may have some, you're gonna have to go up in front of enemy lines, prepare yourself, look for them, and then target them. And they're like, absolutely. And then you find out like, they run one class a year. One was June. And maybe if you're lucky, you know, the Senior Sergeant is going to that. Not Lance Corporal binocs. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Keith McKeever 10:37
Yeah, it young 1819 20 year olds mind. Like, you're you're thinking back to like, your childhood and GI Joe. And you're thinking, Yeah, I'm a gun strapped on my back, and I'm on a dirt bike. And I saw that. Exactly. I saw all the Arnold Schwarzenegger movies. You know, we're single, and a few John Claude Van Damme wants to kill me. I'm taking on the world. Yes. One Man Army. so realistic. Oh, man. But gosh. Anyway, the the demands of the job. It's one of the things I want to ask you about because you talked about that with me. The first time we talked? Yeah, there's demands in the job. Your job has demands. My job does now. But you know, especially when you were in recruiting, you were home all the time. But you are gone. Right? You were absolute rules and functions and stuff like that. So like, how did you handle those demands of parenting and dealing with your spouse and those kinds of things?
Shawn Murphy 11:40
It was well, it was tough. I mean, I'll be the first to admit, I ended up divorced before, by the time it was all over with. Because it was truly, you know, we would run functions every Thursday, where we work our pulleys out just to keep them in shape. But that was one day, you know, keep them in shape. But that was one day a week, you always had those kids that were just barely made, wait to join or something like that. And being Marines. I always saw the most successful recruiting offices worked out together. I knew some recruiting officers that they would be like, hey, marine, your Marine, you know, some self discipline go work out on your own. But the really successful offices all worked out. So getting up and being at Pt at six 630 in the morning. So that we can start our day by 738 o'clock. And then you're working, depending upon what you had going on, you might be working till 810 o'clock at night. And a lot of times it was based on parents, you know, if a kid said to me, Hey, they're ready to join. Mom signs parents are divorced and dad's an over the road truck driver that is not going to get in till 10 o'clock that night. I'm going to be standing at dad's door at 10 o'clock at night, waiting on on them to get done, and do everything. I personally didn't have to deal with this. But I knew guys that would get up in the morning and go grab seniors in high school from their house and take them to school. Because they were missing days of school and stuff like that. So it really, you know, it was highly demanding. And I you know, my first wife hung on for as long as she could, but I mean, it really eventually kind of deteriorated and it wasn't a bad at the time. You know, I was at the time you're like, Oh, this is the end of the world. But it was really for me from a parenting standpoint. One of the best things that happened to me because it forced me to not rely on somebody else to do that work. I had to become that parent more and be around more and find ways to be there more. So it actually worked out for me. And, you know, RH or HIV rank has its privileges. Once I had a little bit more rank on my collar, I wasn't doing those same day to day recruiting, canvassing jobs. I was an operations chief. So my job was more Monday through Friday, some Saturdays here and there. I was doing a lot of I was the assistant recruiter instructor. Again, more Monday through Friday. Yeah, there was some road time there. But I can schedule it during the week that I didn't have my kids because I got my kids Friday to Friday. So a they're not with me this week. There's that if they're with me, I'm staying local someplace I can hit within an hour or two. And then I was the maps liaison at the end of my career. So that was really, again Monday through Friday. I had a partner and if I had the kids that week, he got he was there a 6am and took care of everything in the morning. If I had if I didn't have my kids, I was there at 6am and took care of everything. And then whoever came in early left early, it was nice to have that kind of control. But it definitely took a lot. It probably is why none of my kids became Marines. One, one, join the Coast Guard ones in college, I have two younger ones that aren't quite there yet, but neither one of them seem to have any interest in it. You know, they don't, they don't talk about it the way like I can remember being a kid, you know, playing playing war and guns and running around with friends and stuff like that. They just the interest isn't there. But I think it's from living with me and, and seeing what the Marine Corps life can really be like?
Keith McKeever 15:49
Well, it's definitely a different perspective of your kids having grown up with a well, you know, not just yours, but a lot of kids who might have grown up over the last 20 years, who saw their parents either working their butts off or deployed multiple times, or other factors, you know, physically or mentally have disabilities right related to their service, versus us growing up, like, my stepdad wasn't in the picture until I was in high school, but like, I was in high school when 911 happened like before that it was a few little things here. And there. He had desert storms and things like that there was kind of this. There wasn't a fatigue kind of thing, right to this war, like, we just got done with 20 years of war. Like, you know, kids, literally, their entire childhood was their parents deploying multiple, I can't I can't imagine that, you know, for like, our generation, if you were a child. And your parent was in the military, like, maybe they deployed once or twice. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But they were probably in a safe location, you know, unless they were special forces or something like, you know, that's rare cases. So it's a different different world,
Shawn Murphy 17:02
completely different animal today than back and it's so it's so different what they've experienced. I mean, you talked about that 20 years, we have service members that from start to finish of their career was combat. They didn't know anything other than that. I had an my my ex wife's nephew, I put him in the Marine Corps. He was a grunt. And I can still remember, he would come back into garrison. And they did their I don't know if you got do you guys do uniform inspections in the Air Force? I'm not real sure. Like, do you guys. Yeah, we would do I mean, the man just renamed for shift. Okay.
Keith McKeever 17:41
We norm up and everything. I wasn't sure.
Shawn Murphy 17:43
I mean, yeah, yeah, of course. I'm not sure. Well,
Keith McKeever 17:45
we did a microphone, I don't know about the rest of it. I don't I can't speak for the rest of the Air Force. Probably not.
Shawn Murphy 17:50
But um, but we, we would do things when I first got it and like they were horrible junk on Wall locker J OBS. They were called Wall locker junk on the bunk inspections. Were like your underwear had to be folded six inches by six inches, your socks were folded and stamped with your name. Every uniform in your in your wall locker, the sleeves laid over each other so that the chevron shown, and there was a two finger width in between them. They gave you a diagram and all your 782 gear had to be laid out a certain way. That's what was the start of my career because we didn't have combat? Well, here's my nephew. And he's involved. And they tried to have one. And all these grunts half revolted on him. So like, What the hell is this bullshit, this doesn't get me ready for combat. This doesn't help me get ready for war. Why does this matter? And they he told me he was like, they were all just livid. And finally, the command was like, they're right. And they didn't do it. But as an only recently, this was the this would have been prior to 2014 so this would have been like, say, he enlisted in say I came up here in 2009. So he would have been 2006 2007 timeframe. So and they kind of revolted against it. But being an old head I'm like those are still the those are those discipline things. Those are those other discipline things that yes, at no point in time. Are you going to look at the look at the bad guys and go look at my Chevron's and they're gonna be like, Oh, well, I rolled these right look at well, these sleeves are rolled. It's never gonna happen. But at the same time, I was like, but you gotta understand when you come home though. Those are those discipline little things that teach you you know, discipline is the instant willing obedience to orders I still remember that never will forget it discipline, instant willing obedience to orders and I said that's where that comes from. And it was hard for them to understand. I think they've gone back to finally doing it now hold my feet to the fire but I think a lot of that has come back because are saying, we went, you know, we created all these war dogs, we've got to be able to, you know, teach them when they're back in Garrison, how to still function like citizens.
Keith McKeever 20:12
I was kind of wondering same thing, but not only that, we've gotten to a point where we're out of most combat operations right in the same leg. And we got all these young guys in here now who don't have any combat experience. I was kind of thinking that like, I wonder how much if at all, they've gone back to anything like that to be like, Alright, look, we got to make sure that there's some discipline here. That doesn't make me wonder. You know, what, what have all the branches done to say, look, we we realized in 2023, getting ready to head into 2024 Next year, like we're in a different space now.
Shawn Murphy 20:48
Yeah, completely. What
Keith McKeever 20:49
are we doing now? Like, what what is our force look like? How are we going to structure everything? How are we gonna keep people in check, we realize that we we got a bunch of young guys, but you guys I started with, they're still serving. But they're all senior enlisted guys now. Right? Like, they're all the leaders like, it's all the old dudes. It's all the old dudes the combat experience. Everybody else has got none.
Shawn Murphy 21:07
Right. Yeah, my my people are are almost all gone. I've got a few here and there. But they're mostly you know, their kids. I put in the Marine Corps now. You know, and even those guys, the ones I put in Oh, one are retiring. So it's a very, very different, different animal. I mean, I hope they've gone back to some of it. You know, they don't have to go back to all of it. You don't need six by six underwear and eight by T shirts. I mean, that's a little ridiculous.
Keith McKeever 21:40
Certainly inspections and synergizing things. That's it? Like, you know, some things might be a little bit ridiculous, but just just the idea of like, A, we're checking. We're gonna stay on top of it. Hold you hold you accountable.
Shawn Murphy 21:53
hold you accountable to your gear. Is it accounted for? Is it around? You know, Saigon, Sam's has got to make money somehow. That was that was the Army Navy store in Jacksonville, North Carolina, Saigon, Sam's when you were missing 782 gear, you went out in town, and somebody had already sold their stuff to psych us. And you could pick it up. It was like, I need three magazines. I need an lb v. And he had it every time.
Keith McKeever 22:20
That does not surprise me. I couldn't imagine being a supply guys and be like, What do you mean, you don't have all this stuff when you turn it in? It? Because I'm sure they knew. Right? You know, like, I know exactly where it's at.
Shawn Murphy 22:29
We know that did you have so we had when I first enlisted. We had real supply guys like supply Marines. They you checked your 782 in and out with those guys. They were supply guys. Now it's Sif. You notice if we've seen that before, we call it a Sif in the Marine Corps. I've heard the term. But they're civilian contractors that you turn that that now run the supply spots for all the 782 gear and stuff. So when you check gear in and out, it's some civilian who was probably you know, in Jacksonville, you were probably a Marine, that retired. Needed a gig. So that's, that's who's running all that now.
Keith McKeever 23:13
I think when I got out, gosh, what, 12 years ago now. Okay, so that said, it's gotten so long, I forgot about 12 years ago. I think about maybe half half of that warehouse was was enlisted. The other half was civilian employees. Maybe? Given that while it seems like yeah, has taken way back into memory bank, holy cow. Wow. Oh, the years fly by so. So while speaking again out, that kind of leads into my next question, you know, you because you did 20 years. We also talked the other day about mentorship and stuff, which I think is something that's lacking. So how can you be? How can somebody be a good mentor to somebody when they're getting out? Like, how could somebody who's already gotten out be a good mentor to somebody who is retiring or separating? You know, vice versa? What kind of things you know, have you seen or done or those kinds of things? Because I think there's, there's perspective here, where, when you're getting out, you don't know what it's like to be on our side of the table. You know, unless you ask somebody. Yeah. And like, I just, I mean, I don't I don't see people really reaching out and asking and being like, hey, what's it like to be a veteran? Like, what's it like to be back in the civilian world? Like, you just kind of just kind of do its apps and just kind of go through it? It's like, Dude, there's, there's millions of us on this side of the table, like a lot of us You served with, like, reach out, get a mentor, like, have somebody just talk to somebody at least?
Shawn Murphy 24:47
Well, I would tell you this, you know, I think we all say the same thing. I think you would agree with me, Keith, most of us don't necessarily miss being in the surf. risk we missed the people we serve with. Yes, I think that's kind of that's kind of most of our mantras
Keith McKeever 25:07
and some of the fun stuff you do.
Shawn Murphy 25:08
There's some cool stuff. You know, you look back at it now and like add it was fun. But mostly the people you met you really miss the people, you build relationships, don't lose those relationships. I still get phone calls. Today from from guys that are like, Hey, tell me, I just think one of the ones we talked about a master guns that I worked for. He got out before I did was working for a company, he saw that I own my own company. And he reached out to me and Merv, how did you do it? How are you able to do it, having those conversations, I have friends in the local area, we have a we have a chat group on our phones that we send messages to there's actually have two different ones. One, all the guys are in Texas, but me, I never lived in Texas. But they're all down in Texas. And another one that they're all up here in the New York area. And we stay in constant communications, so that we can ask those questions. And if you know somebody who's getting out and you know, when I got out, I got 70% disability just for something arbitrary, and you got 70%. But you realize you should have done this, this and this, to get at 100. We'll talk to your buddies and tell them, hey, look, make sure you document all these things. Because this is what it's going to do for you. And most of us when we're and we're so used to somebody providing information and just doing it, they will. Because when you get out here, the hardest reality you will learn is thank you for your service, is really just to make the other person feel better that saying it. It's not for you, it really isn't for you. It's horrible to say, and I know, somebody's gonna hear this, that said it to me. And please don't take that I think any less of you. But over my time, I cannot tell you how many times somebody said to me, thank you for your service, we really appreciate it. But and then something else comes in behind that, like, you know, hey, we really appreciate what you did thank you for your service, we would like to offer you this job. But we're going to offer you at $20,000 a year less than what you're looking for. And we're going to use the excuse of what you did, you didn't do it here. And it really is a very crushing blow to a lot of us. You know, when you you've been an act like an admin, oh, one in the Marine Corps, I'm not sure what the nomenclature is for the Air Force. But in oh one, you're an admin, which means you're a human resources specialist, which means you've dealt with people's pay vacation, medical, giving them discharge, dealing with travel planning, you've done things that most HR people will never do in their lives. You're probably missing 10% of the civilian side of it, which is, so that states employment law, and maybe FMLA. That's probably what you're missing. But you will go to that, that job interview and they will tell you, thank you for your service, we would love to offer you this position. How about as a generalist, not the manager, because you didn't do that job here. You need, we need you to have done it here. You're telling this to a person who for 20 years, has I had somebody tell me, I didn't have the right leadership? I'm like, Do you know what, that's what always blows
Keith McKeever 28:47
my mind? Like? Do you have any supervisory experience or leadership experience? And it's like, well, you know, I supervised you know, with the airman Leadership School, and, you know, it's like, that was a long comprehensive school. Everything about being a leader and managing people and supervising people and how to conduct performance feedback review, like everything, right? And it's like, yeah, I supervise. I was supervising people before that. And after that, I was like, I had six or seven people I've supervised for a year and a half, two years. And it's like, it's not really a lot of supervisory experience, or it's like leadership experience of any leadership experience. And it's like, well, what, you know, Airman leadership, school combat Leaders Course, you know, like
Shawn Murphy 29:36
it's so amazing, isn't it? Like they just, I can remember getting asked that and I'm like, Yeah, I've even done I've been trained, I'm a train the trainer qualified. So I can teach people how to teach people and I've done tools to coaching Excellent. So I know how to teach someone to teach someone to coach someone. For perfect Comments, reviews and all that, ah, well, that's kind of cool. But it just, so that's the hardest thing for a lot of us. And I think that's where, why a lot of us jump jobs. A lot of times when we first get out, we eat crow, and we take jobs that are below us. Because we feel like I'm out of work, I gotta get a job. So we take, we take that lesser job, or truly, you know, fall into that funk. When we first get out. And it's, this is bullshit, nobody understands me, I can't find a good job. Everyone had these jobs, or, or this and that. And we miss those people we serve with because we all spoke that language. Now here we are trying to get somebody else to speak that language with us. And it just falls on deaf ears. And it I truly believe that a lot of that funk. And we end up you know, it's got Keith, you I don't know about yours. I experienced someone telling me stop being so smart. I taken a job with with CSX Railroad Company, great job. They hired me as a frontline manager. Good position. And the guy's name was Rob, on carefree. Here's all this. He I still believe even the worst leaders give, give good advice. He told me if you don't love the railroad, get out of it as soon as you can before you're addicted to the money. Railroad pays very, very well. But I'll never forget. He he was a poor leader. But he gave me great advice one day, he's like, hey, I want to talk to you. What's going on? He goes, I heard from some of the crews, that you're acting like, you know, everything. I said, What are you talking about? Well, you were quoting rules and stuff like that. I was supposed to be a leader supposed to be frontline supervisor. I'm used to being in the Marine Corps, you better show me what you know, where I'm gonna expect that you're an imbecile and you don't know anything. And these guys went back and cried. Because that's what most most of them do. Go back and cry.
Keith McKeever 32:23
Because you read the rules. And you knew the rules, right? Like, every employee should know.
Shawn Murphy 32:28
Right? So. But he gave me a great piece of advice. And I've given this to so many people. And I give this the best piece of advice I give to every service member when they get out. Act like you don't know anything. When when on the job. If you're if you're standing with a guy who's got, you know, 20 years experience, as long as he's not destroying anything, you may know exactly what he's doing. You may have the same experience level. Let them tell you something like they've taught you something and go, oh, oh, really? Huh? Hey, man, I appreciate that. And then walk away. That dude will turn around and tell everyone how amazing Oh, you know, he knows that because I taught him that. He knows that now because of me. You know, he can pick up good dude, he's good listener. And you can walk away and be like that dudes an idiot. He'll know what he's doing. But as far as they're concerned, because that's what we have to do. Because we're trained a different way. If if you came and work for me it in it what you know, in security forces, and I'm running a security detail, and I you show up and I'm like, A, I need you to go ahead and write up a write up a shift for Firewatch. This evening, make sure that we got you know, patrols to cover points A, B, C, and D. And you're a sergeant e five, and you looked at me and you went I want to show me how to do that. And I had to show that to you. Well, we'd have a different conversation. And I don't care how long you've been in you could be your first day in the unit. We're going to have a different conversation. Yes, civilian side. I don't care if you've done the job for 30 years. If you're a service member and you come in and somebody wants to show it to you act like you don't know shit. Let them feel like they showed you some Oh, really. And that's so hard for us. Because we want you to know what we know. That's part of our part of our persona. Walk in take control.
Keith McKeever 34:29
A lot of us because of that, that that leadership, we see things we situational awareness is another thing that we're all taught to to spot little things to to see things and be like hey, that's that's not right, that's wrong, then do something about it. The values the board, like there's some of those some of those things play against us in the civilian world. You have to learn how to adapt to it and play with play within the system, and you said some A couple of minutes ago, I can't remember exactly what it was, but you definitely have to play it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had to play the fool. But you have to be real careful on some of those things. And it's a, it's, it's just a weird, weird world to have to navigate. And knowledge is half the battle. And you have to realize kind of the perspective.
Shawn Murphy 35:33
Absolutely agree. Yes. Yeah.
Keith McKeever 35:36
I think that's what it was different. You know, we are different, you have to realize, like, you know, we are different. And if you realize that we are different than you can, like you say, play dumb. Like, you have to realize that we are different for you to be able to play dumb, and kind of play that role, right, and kind of navigate to civilian world in a very strategic and tactical way.
Shawn Murphy 36:01
And that's what it is, it's a tactic to kind of go, Ah, okay,
Keith McKeever 36:08
yeah, I, I'm a firm believer that I don't think you can do navigate the civilian world, just floating by? No, I think you really have to, you have to, you know, keep that military, mindset and brain and you have to, you have to look at the opportunities that are out there. And you have to think about it both on a strategic and tactical level. Like, where am I? Where do I want to go? What do I want to do in life, but then you have to like individual, like job and how I'm going to navigate the job, how I'm gonna deal with people like you have to be very tactical about how you approach things. 100% people's toes play stupid or, or like, I'm just going to avoid this kind of situation, because it's not good for me, or I'm going to put myself in this kind of situation, because it's good for me, it sets me up whatever the case may be, like, you have to be very thoughtful about those things, because a lot of your civilian counterparts are just kind of floating through this world.
Shawn Murphy 37:00
And you know, you bring up a great point, though, that's the other side of where I think a lot of us could do way better, is we're used to, well, I've been here for two years, I should be up for promotion. It's not like that, it's, you really have to figure out, how do I go get it? In the civilian world, nobody's just, nobody's going to come along and go, Well, it's one January, your, your fit rep is do your direct supervisor is going to write it there, the CEO is going to verify it, and then a board is going to promote you. That's I think that was a tough one. Also like you, you really have to be willing to figure out well, what's going to promote me, how am I going to get promoted? And what's the right way to put loyalty isn't valued the same way in the civilian world as it is in the service? You know, we're, you know, people change jobs every three to five years, or whatever it is now, you know, we were used to if you're a retiree did 20k I want to stay here forever? It's great. But that values not not the same. Where you have to be willing to look and go, Okay, well, you know, I was with these guys, I'll eat a little crow, to do a little to get my foot in the door, knowing that in two years, I can go to the next office over. And that's my promotion. And they'll do that for three years now. I'll go over there and be willing to do those things. We I think one of our things is we get places and we get comfortable. Nobody's coming with orders for you to go to a new unit. No one's going to promote you because you've been there for so long. They will. If you're just there, they'll just leave you sit right where you're at. You're still doing that job. That's good. We'll leave you right there. Why change things? It's working.
Keith McKeever 38:57
If you're not, I mean, hey, if you're doing the job, and you're doing it satisfactorily, ducky paying you to do the job. That's it, they're not gonna pay you more. You know, they don't have to yell at you or get you in trouble or write you up for performance issues. Like you just show up every day you do the job. Because let's face it, most vets are just going to show up every day consistently. They're going to do the job. They're not going to complain too much. They're, you know, but now I look at things like a like a game of chess, right? You start off you started the company. You don't just look at the and sit there and spend five minutes thinking about just the first move. Because if it's just the first pawn, right, good, well, most people move the pawn first, right. You might move your night. But, you know, most you know, if you really think thinking logically, you're probably thinking, what are my first three or four moves? How am I going to attack this opponent first, right? You should be like kind of looking at your job the same way. If I get into this entry level position What is the next? What's the promotion? What's the next position, the position after that? And there's there's HR terms called knowledge, skills and abilities, right? I got hired because of the knowledge skills abilities that I have today. What is needed for that next job in the next job after that? And so if I'm hired today, at this level, what do I need to add? knowledge, skills and abilities wise and my work ethic and attitude to get to the next level? It's just like, just jump, bump up, just like in a military getting promoted, right? Like time and grade, time and service. You know, certifications, qualifications other other things. I know every branch kind of has their own different thing, but same same kind of system in a way.
Shawn Murphy 40:41
You have to take control of it.
Keith McKeever 40:43
Yeah, yeah. It's all in your hands. Like you have to take control of it. Like, if you don't go to Coursera, or go, wherever, go back to school, get that to that next level degree or at a certification on and then you can tell your boss and waive that piece of paper and say, hey, look, hey, I got the certification. Aren't you proud of me? Isn't this awesome? Look at these extra skills I got now
Shawn Murphy 41:05
are you going to pay for? And that's where you go? So this is where I need you to pay for this? And if they're like, No, we're like, oh, I guess it's time to start looking elsewhere? Yeah.
Keith McKeever 41:13
Yeah. Uses leverage. That's it. So I mean, there's a lot of different things you can do. So that's, that's some good, good stuff there for people. So, you know, kind of talked about some things there. But how about how could somebody be a good mentee? How could somebody going through deposition be? A good mentee, if they're reaching out to somebody and a good follower and following somebody's footsteps? That's kind of a follow up question to what we talked about here few minutes ago.
Shawn Murphy 41:44
So So I would probably tell you, I have let me think for a second, at least two mentors, when I got out that were Marines. And then other mentors that never served a day in their lives. And you've got to, you've got to kind of balance those out and figure out what works for you, you know, I have another Gunny, who got out before I did, very successful entrepreneur does amazing things. The other one is a master guns. Same thing, he physically wrote the book on Marine Corps recruiting, you know, so knowing that guy and knowing the other one, I was able to reach out to other members of other Marines who navigated those waters already, and figure out where their pitfalls were. And use that to my advantage to be able to say, okay, he said, Don't say happy, say glad people really liked the word glad better than to do that word happy. And it might seem like a silly way of looking at it, but it worked. And it was kind of one of those, I will touch it, and don't lose track of them either. You know, don't be like, Alright, cool, I'm good now, you that you now as you're learning as a good mentee, provide that feedback to your mentor to say, hey, you remember when you told me to say, glad instead of happy, it really worked. Because they may they're probably mentoring somebody else also. And they're gonna want to be able to say, hey, so you know, he did that. And now this is to his advantage also provide that, that feedback to them. So they know if the advice they're giving you, is good or not. Because if you, they may be a miserable failure by saying glad. And next thing, you know, they're still telling everyone to say glad and all these other guys are going, That guy's an idiot. He told me to say, well, maybe you're the one that needs to go back, say hey, so you know, I started saying that, and people thought I was a fool for saying that. They really did like the word happy. It, it's those kinds of things. So that's, that's one. And the other one is find yourself a civilian mentor, that's never served a day in their lives. Maybe they've dealt with service members, whatever. I've had a couple of people that I've just met, you know, through railroad time, through my last position, and even my current role, where I'm just looking for somebody that I can call and bounce ideas off of not be like, Man, remember, back in the day, somebody would have said that to us we to, and that's what we all kind of do in the services, but somebody that I can just kind of go, Hey, I'm dealing with this situation. How am I approaching it right? What would you say? And they're gonna give you an approach that you've never heard before. They're not going to be like, well, listen, tell them take a step back, look at the big picture, but they're going to be like, oh, you know, hey, I've never dealt with that. Or I have and this is how I dealt with it. Having that civilian to balance you out is super important. I think just too many times we we wrap ourselves as a mentee. We want to just bring nothing but other service members around does. And, you know, if I if I only if I only look this way, and this the only way I look, this is the only right direction. Maybe you need somebody to turn your head.
Keith McKeever 45:13
I absolutely love those answers. I think feedback is critical. I'd love that one. The civilian route? I couldn't agree more on that one. Because I've had to, and I'll have a follow up question this here in a minute. But I've had two that I consider. Like unofficial mentors, right? In my industry, I'm in real estate. And I don't know if they listen to the show or not. But I don't even know if they really know this or not, but I'll name drop them. It's Jeff and Suzanne. Right? They've been absurd on a lot of committees and boards with them. And they both been supportive of me and my career, neither one observed. But they've been supportive of me in my career. They've encouraged me to take leadership opportunities when they've come up in the career field, and take opportunities and to serve in different capacities. So they've been champions of me enough of me and supportive of me in so many different ways. And so like their unofficial mentors to me, in a lot of ways I watch their actions, because they've got a lot more experience in the industry than me. And it's like, alright, they've gone through the leadership positions and stuff like that, I see how they act, and I see what they do. And I just kind of watched from afar, and it's like, Okay, those are the people in my industry that I want to model myself wrong. Those are the people I want to be like, because there's plenty of examples in my industry that I don't want to be like, there's, there's a lot of those. Right? So like, I guess that's, that's one of my questions is, it seems like you have a lot of mentors that you've actually connected with, and I've got some people that I have, but do you have any that that you've just kind of watched from afar that you've really never had, you know, deep conversations, like an official mentorship with but like, you've just kind of watched and be like, hey, that's like one of my unofficial kind of mentors.
Shawn Murphy 47:07
You know, I don't know if there's anyone I would say that, but I got into reading some books and everything. And some of the folks you know, I don't know much much about their lives outside of their books, but the one was, negotiate, negotiate everything. I think it's what it was called us and our brains not working. And the guy who wrote wrote that book really was a eye opener to me, never split the difference. That's it never split the difference. I did check myself. And that's a guy who I look at their career and I've kind of followed their career with this guy was a hostage negotiator. In in, I think it was New York City hostage negotiator or Los Angeles or somewhere like a hostage negotiator. And then then he moved up to be an FBI hostage negotiator. And, you know, now he owns the company, Black Swan, and does all these things with about negotiating. And for me, that was a guy that from afar, he's never obviously never mentored me personally. But from afar, I've watched him. I've watched things in his career and looked at into Eminem. Like, I love his process. I love what he's done. His first name is Chris. But it was very, like, he took very human nature things to create this process. And the other one it and I love the titles of his books is Mark Mark, Mark Mason, Master Mason, he wrote the two books, the subtle art of not giving a fuck, and everything is fucked a book about hope. And, again, never met the guys. But listening to his story was really an eye opener from me. For a guy who next year will be this year was nine years since I retired. The 31st of this month would be nine years since I retire. And you would think by now I'd have my my shit together. But I learned every day. Because Because should one of the things that I took from him as as an unofficial kind of like, what is this guy all for an OP advice wise, was I found I wanted to fight every battle as if it was the war. And, and not, and not in a sense that I was burning bridges. But if I had an idea, and I presented you that idea, and you told me Yeah, that's fine. And you kind of brushed me off, came on and it was time to go to war. Because I felt like you were dismissing me. And just listening to his approach was more like, you can't, you know, you can't care about it. Everything, because if you care about everything you care about nothing. It was really kind of that approach of present it. See if it if it if it's worth it. If they blow you off, it's fine. It's not, it's not going to end anything. Are you gonna lose your job? It's going to be the end of the world? No, probably not. You've got X amount of years on this planet, are you going to waste them being upset at everything? And I was like, Yeah, you know, and he talked, I think probably the biggest thing I pulled out of that was I don't remember how he presents it. But basically, fear is our mind. Fear is our mind telling us what might happen. It hasn't even happened. It's not you don't even know what's gonna happen. You can't even believe
Keith McKeever 50:53
infinite possibilities,
Shawn Murphy 50:54
right? You know, it's like, when you're a little kid, you're gonna get a shot. You, you're not gonna fall off and Oh, my God, I'm gonna get a needle. And it's, and it's gonna hurt so bad. But it hasn't happened yet. So what are you scared of?
Keith McKeever 51:08
And we all certainly live through a bunch of shots. Right?
Shawn Murphy 51:12
We had air needles in the Marine Corps back in the day. Do you ever have air needles?
Keith McKeever 51:16
Do you remember if they had air needles or not? Do these were like running through the gauntlet of all the needles? Yeah, remember that?
Shawn Murphy 51:22
These guys? For us, they would stand on these pedals. And they would like give it like two or three pumps, I don't know. And you'd step forward and you'd hear step four. And it was it didn't have an actual needle in it. It was compressed air to a fine point, and just shoot the medication into your arm.
Keith McKeever 51:39
I don't think we had those. I think we just all Yeah. But
Shawn Murphy 51:43
But yeah, that's so for unofficial, you know, they didn't know they mentored me. Those would probably be you know, and it was more from a book standpoint. reading those, you know, I don't think I could read the, the Buddhist you know, my Zen Zen out kind of stuff. I, you know, the things that I read had to kind of impact the way I think those two books really, really did, you know, just kind of like, huh, never split the difference. You know, you're in real estate that should resonate with you. It was those kind of books that really just kind of like, okay, this makes sense.
Keith McKeever 52:23
Yes, good stuff. I think the author of The One was a Chris Voss is that was? That's it? Yes. Okay. Yeah. never spoken to him. Yeah, there's some. Here's a lot of good things. I've had a couple, of course, I've got on the podcast website, I've got Rick, some recommended reading, these are not in there, because they're not, you know, veteran veteran books. But there's a real estate coach, Tom Ferry, and I'm trying to the actual title of his book is, life by design, it's, but I'll be honest, I read like the first quarter of his book, and his many, many years ago. And it did just Dawn just hit me one day, you know, this is this is probably the first couple of years after getting out. And it was just like, eye opening to me of like, the rest of my life is my design, I have control, I have control of my schedule, my time what I want to do the education, I want to get like all of this stuff, it was just, I didn't even need the rest, read the rest of the book, I probably should finish the rest of the book. Just the whole idea probably needed to actually restart the book. But just the idea in general, the simplicity of it of just live your life by your design. And another one was by Darren Hardy. I can't remember the exact title of it. But the compound effect, that's it, we were talking about, it's about the consistency of your effort, and the compound effect of that. So if you just do something for five minutes a day today, in five minutes tomorrow, if I miss the next day, the compound effect of that is going to build up if you just read, you know about your industry or your job for five minutes a day, or 10 minutes a day, whatever. How much smarter, would you be about your industry at the end of the year? If you were to work out for 15 minutes a day? Every single day for a whole year? How much better shape would you potentially be end of the year? It's the consistency of the effort that gets you the results. You know, and his book just it's like, yeah, you just have to buckle down and do it and stay consistent, incredibly consistent in what you do. I Gribble that with, you know, living your life by design, design it that way. It's like, you know, be honest, that's that's probably why, you know, well over 100 episodes into this podcast. It's like, I wanted to do it. And I was like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna schedule, I'm gonna schedule the way I'm gonna schedule and I'm going to be consistent and this is how I'm going to do it. I honestly, I mean, I wouldn't have hit 10 episodes if I wouldn't have found a way to be consistent at it. So, like podcasting
Shawn Murphy 54:58
is consistency apps. So, we're we go on, I have my show tonight, the above the bar podcast, it'll go, it'll start at 8pm. And I think this is 189 or 190. somewhere, somewhere around there. I've literally lost track. I don't know until I upload them. And a
Keith McKeever 55:18
reminder, I'll put the scrolling at the bottom of the show notes, too, for everybody. It has links down there. But
Shawn Murphy 55:23
But yeah, I mean, God, we could do a whole nother show on podcasting. You know, when those stats came out in 2022, that there was over a million podcasts, Spotify came out, there's a million podcasts of that million, only it was something like less than half or had actually done more than 10 episodes. And even less than that, we're still on after a year. Like the numbers are the numbers of like, the 2 million podcasts that are out there are really only about 100,000 active when it all breaks down. It's 10%.
Keith McKeever 56:11
Yeah. It's, uh, I mean, that's why I look back sometimes. And it's like, Man, I can't believe I started this and 2020 thing. And it's like, you know, it's like, hey, you know, three years, but I mean, we're not that far away from 2024, which we're to say, I mean, middle summer here, but like, you have three years in over 100 100 episodes, you know, a beat 100 I think should be 115 or so by the end of this year. It's like madness. That's a lot of episodes. It's a lot. It's a lot of guests, a couple of repeat guests in there, too. So a lot of different topics, man, it's just just, it's amazing. It's a lot. It's a lot to share with other people, which is is. I mean, that's the fun part about it is a bunch of
Shawn Murphy 56:51
how much smarter you are, though. They are much smarter you are for doing podcasting, not just the, the control of the equipment that you've got around you. But the people you have met through that, that have opened your circle up for different mentors, different understandings, people who were like, offered things to you. I can tell you right now, I've made some really good bodies out of it, that I still talk to you today that there's some I don't talk to you anymore. They're on the show. They're gone. They move one, that's fine. But other people that have become really good acquaintances of mine, we talk regularly.
Keith McKeever 57:31
Yeah, I've got a few of those. Yeah, you know, other podcasters give a shout out Richard Kaufman from vertical momentum. Richard and I are real close. We chat every now and then. Like, there's there's some there's some great people that I've that I've met, and who are experts in such wildly different things, which is awesome. Because then you can just ask people like all these cool questions like they're experts in and
Shawn Murphy 57:57
so nothing's all replace we had two weeks ago. So I didn't do an episode. Last week, I was on vacation. The guy two weeks ago, wrote two books on AI, and how you shouldn't be scared of AI and using AI in business and all that. The gentleman I'm speaking with tonight, is a stand up comedian who has an entertainment company. And we're going to be talking about stand up comedy and writing jokes. Completely different worlds. You know,
Keith McKeever 58:20
that's interesting. I just recorded one the other day, which was talking about business and AI and technology. That'll be coming out later this year. And I just went to a comedy show last weekend. There you go. We're right there. It's quite ironic. But yeah, I have not had a comedian on my show yet, though, that I have to
Shawn Murphy 58:36
hook you up. I've had this. I've had several lon and they always get good ratings.
Keith McKeever 58:42
That doesn't surprise me. Everybody wants to hear a comedian. Yeah. And every one of them should be funnier than me. So
Shawn Murphy 58:48
well, that's my whole thing is you know, that's my great question for him. What made you think that people wanted to hear you talk about comedy? Like tell jokes? What made you think you were that funny? Like that's a level of balls. That I mean, it's huge.
Keith McKeever 59:05
I've only been to a couple of comedy shows this this last weekend it's got one I think I didn't I didn't know about the guy. But my wife saw I don't think she saw me on TV. She saw him on Tik Tok. But, so we went to this small place here in town and I mean, sometimes I feel like I let out some pretty funny jokes in person or whatnot. I can be funny from time to time. But that's a whole different skill set. Like I don't know how you could stand on stage for an hour and just work a crowd like that. They had some some local guys and gals come up there and they were there. They were good. But there was a there was a definite talent difference. So when he stepped up there I was like, This guy is is in a whole nother world. And I never heard of Right, you know, like, this guy could really work a crowd. Of course, he was making fun of me for being bald and yeah, I mean, small venues. It was amazing. It was it was a great show by all of them. I mean, they were all hilarious. It's I have no idea how to do it either. I don't know.
Shawn Murphy 1:00:17
Yeah, no, I'm 100% with you.
Keith McKeever 1:00:21
It's, it's mind boggling. So anyway, yeah, no, I'm gonna have to definitely tune into that one. You're all about the comedy world.
Shawn Murphy 1:00:29
Yeah. Well, you have to join us for that one.
Keith McKeever 1:00:31
Yep. So you know, everybody who's watching or listening, it'd be in the show notes. But I've got Shawn's podcast, the above the bar podcast, which you stream on Wednesday nights, right? Live, steak live on Wednesday nights, we've got Facebook up there, I know you got links on your Facebook, to check out some of the things. So anything else you want to share about your podcast?
Shawn Murphy 1:00:55
Ah, no, just come and join us. And I'll say this for my sake. And for keepsake. If you're finding me through Keith, and you find Keith through me, it really matters to us, when you give us five star ratings, it truly does matter. You may think it means nothing. It's just like the kids watching, you know, those videos where like, I can share, it really does matter to us. It makes a difference, because that's how the algorithm sees us. That's how that's how the AI knows that you're there. They see the algorithm and they say, hey, this person is on here. And they're doing this. So we'll go ahead and somebody actually likes him. Yes, I actually does like him. First one ever somebody other than their mom, not just as mother that likes him, folks. But it really makes a difference for us. So that's the one thing I'll say is please take a moment and do that. For us. It really does make a difference, to get our word out.
Keith McKeever 1:01:49
And share too. You know, I mean, our guests have stories, they have experiences, we you know, we all tried to share things. I mean, just just like this podcast, just trying to share things to help help the community and share resources. So that's it, it all helps. So I appreciate that. And I appreciate you coming on Shawn and sharing with us and giving us some some nuggets of nuggets of your wisdom.
Shawn Murphy 1:02:14
Well, I appreciate you having me, brother. It was a pleasure. Always like helping out other service members. And I hope somebody listens to this and it makes an impact.
Keith McKeever 1:02:23
Yeah. And you know, we might have to might have to explore to another episode someday on specifically on podcasting. So you'd like to do that? Yeah. All righty. Well, you take it easy. Thanks, brother. Yep. Here we have folks, I hope you enjoyed. Remember to check out the website battle buddy podcast.net. Remember, if there's the resources not out there anything should be please reach out let me know. And remember, if you're struggling for any reason, please call nine eight press one or you can text 838255 Remember, the most important thing is that you are here tomorrow with us.
