Second Chance Outdoors
This week we are joined by Air Force Veteran Logan McKinney, the founder of Second Chance Outdoors, a remarkable non-profit organization with a mission to make a difference in the lives of veterans through hunting and fishing experiences.
Logan shares the inspiring story of how Second Chance Outdoors got started and the journey that led to its creation. He reveals the heartwarming places where they operate hunting and fishing tours, providing veterans with memorable outdoor experiences and a chance to reconnect with nature.
Discover the ideal candidates for Second Chance Outdoors and how they select deserving individuals to participate in these life-changing adventures. We dive into Logan's personal connection to hunting as he opens up about his favorite hunt and his ultimate dream hunt.
Beyond the outdoors, Logan reveals the powerful impact of journaling, breath work, and meditation on his own mental well-being and how these practices have positively influenced the veterans he works with.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to learn more about the incredible work of Second Chance Outdoors, the healing power of nature, and the profound benefits of journaling and mindfulness practices.
In This Episode We Cover:
How they got started
Where they operate hunting and fishing tours
Ideal candidates
Logan's favorite hunt and dream hunt
The power of journaling, breath work and meditation
Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:
Transcript from Episode 108 with Logan McKinney:
Keith McKeever 0:01
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast today I've got a tremendous guest on. I've been looking forward to getting Logan on to talk about Second Chance outdoors, and in some hunting and fishing adventures, to a topic that we haven't really brought up before on the podcast, I'm really excited to talk about what they do, how they do it, and how they're helping veterans, you know, kind of navigate to their problems and their issues through taking them on some guided, you know, hunting and fishing tours and using some, some other things like some journaling and some breath work and some other things. I won't dive too far into it. Let Logan talk about that, but some really, really great conversation coming up today. So without further ado, welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. So welcome to the show. Logan.
Logan McKinney 0:46
How's it going, man?
Keith McKeever 0:48
It's going good man. Glad to finally get you here on the podcast.
Logan McKinney 0:51
I know we've been we've been playing phone tag and calendar tag for a little while.
Keith McKeever 0:56
Yeah, well, hey, you know what, you're here, finally. So that's all the counts. That's it. I'm excited to want to go ahead and throw that up there before I forget, because I have a tendency to delay the show to throw the scrolling banner up there. But second chance outdoors is your is your nonprofit. But before we get into that, share with everybody a little bit of your, your background, your military story.
Logan McKinney 1:17
Yeah. Logan McKinney grew up in the Kansas City Metro Area join the Air Force right out of high school. first duty station was Anchorage, Alaska, I was a cop in the Air Force. Got to from there, I went down to Alamogordo, New Mexico to go to Holloman Air Force Base, if you ever have an opportunity to go, don't
Keith McKeever 1:46
have heard that before. As a fellow security forces defender I have heard that,
Logan McKinney 1:51
you know, I would have to say the mission and the unit. And the folks that I was with at the time were squared away, folks. But if you are not like an avid, avid avid outdoorsman, don't go if you're in the elk hunting like audit hunting, ibex, things like that 100% Go. But if that's not your jam, don't go
Keith McKeever 2:16
take it. There's a lack of activities in town.
Logan McKinney 2:20
When I was there, we had two bars. Well, there's some reason to do two bars. One was a palm side or something like that. And we couldn't even go it was blacklisted or whatever. And the others. The other place was called Jerry's, and it was just a hole in a wall rundown small town bar. But on Saturday nights, they had country nine. So that's where we went. There was something
Keith McKeever 2:45
and the other place that I'm sure there's a very legitimate reason why that was blacklisted.
Logan McKinney 2:50
Yeah, you get stabbed? Yeah. Well, I
Keith McKeever 2:52
mean, it's not advisable, right. Like,
Logan McKinney 2:55
you shouldn't do that. But yeah, I'm good six years in the Air Force. A couple of deployments got to go on a couple of TV wise as well. After I separated, I was a civilian police officer for another number of years, stayed in New Mexico, because of the outdoors and a couple of a couple of other unique opportunities that I had with the sheriff's office that I worked for. And then finally made my way back home here to Kansas City. And where I'm running second chance outdoors.
Keith McKeever 3:31
Awesome. So tell us a little bit of our second chance outdoors and like where did that idea come from? Obviously, you had a background in hunting and, you know, hunting and fishing and stuff like that before, or a passion for it.
Logan McKinney 3:43
Oh, yeah. So I mean, I grew up, you know, every every year in the Midwest, opening day of whitetail is is a thing, right? Like, it's, it's religious, we're all going to deer camp, and I grow up going to our little family farm and go to deer camp, and it was never so much. And I didn't really understand this at the time. But it was never so much about the hunting, per se. It was getting together with like minded individuals. You know, my uncle's, my, you know, uncles uncle who wasn't really a family, in the family, just a buddy that's been around forever, who's now your uncle, you know what I mean? Like, just everybody came together, shared and fellowship and camaraderie. And just had a good time. It wasn't really always about the hunt, which never really didn't make sense to me when I was a kid. But as I've grown and kind of leaned into this organization a lot like it makes a whole lot of sense. But long winded answer Yeah, man. grew up hunting and fishing and all that good stuff. When I got out, I kind of got away from doing all of that. Doing doing the civilian cop thing. And, you know, you face your own trials, tribulations and things like that, that come along with, you know, being being a civilian police officer. I got away from hunting, fishing, camping, hiking all the things outdoors. And then one day, I just started again, started hiking, found that as like a PT, type type thing. And then I found a turkey hunt in southwest Colorado that I went on after coming back from Afghanistan, when I contracted set in the mountains with who I learned didn't know at a time when I booked when I booked this hunt. But I later learned that guide was a veteran when I was in camp. And it was just he and I. And it was one of the most raw, emotional like awesome eye opening hunts that I had been on, literally ever because it wasn't about the hunt, it was literally about me just getting away and going back to something that I knew to be grounding, which was the outdoors, which was hunting, which was getting in camp with like minded people, like, I need to go try this, I need to go, I'm just gonna go hunt. And for whatever reason, you know, it worked. The idea of Second Chance outdoors wasn't born right then in there. But like the spark for the outdoors was reignited. So I found myself going outdoors more and more and more transition from civilian law enforcement to corporate America. Again, in that transition, I found myself kind of not going outdoors, noticed, you know, some depression, some thing is some PTSD symptoms popping up and, you know, raising their, their head, if you will, went back outdoors saw a kind of decline, went on a hunt with whom, with a guy who later became a co founder of the organization. And that's when it was like the aha moment, man, we laughed so hard, our cheeks hurt, we had a hell of a sheep hunt out in the middle of nowhere Colorado. And that's when it was kind of like the aha moment of there's something here there's something more to this than just getting into camp with with your buddies. Like there's, there's something here. And as we've grown, the organization, I've grown in my own journey, you know, in wellness, and I've found other modalities to add into the outdoors. So it's, our program goes a little bit more in depth, like you were alluding to, than just simply getting outdoors, we have a whole mental health program that we work through on the mountain and the tree stand, whatever, whatever that is.
Keith McKeever 7:52
So I'm picturing it like this, you know, because I haven't done too much hunting or fishing in yours, but I did kind of grow up doing a little bit of that.
Logan McKinney 8:05
But there is something about like being outdoors. Like when you don't have your phone on you or it's at least silenced and in your pocket. You're You're unplugged from the world and all the craziness that's going on, and you're just out there doesn't matter if you see anything, doesn't matter if you shoot anything or you catch anything with you know, you're just
Logan McKinney 8:25
there. You got to disconnect to reconnect.
Keith McKeever 8:28
Right? You're like you're unplugged. But you're plugged back in. Oh, yeah, I can to Mother Nature and or plugged back into your, you know, to your battle buddy that you're out there with.
Logan McKinney 8:40
And it's a real thing like you literally like you can feel it in your body. Like you can see it like when when what you're talking about when that disconnect to reconnect happens like you can you can feel it. It's wild. It is it is. I think it's game changing for it was for me, and I know that it has been for for some other folks.
Keith McKeever 9:07
I'm sure it has been because I know you guys have been operating for about three years. Right? That's right. That's right. So I I know I've got the list here But where exactly are you guys? You know, I know you're doing let's see fly fishing, l cons whitetail? Just just about anything that you can get a tag for? I know there's logistical issues there. Are we every organization like yours has the same track challenges with governments and whatnot with getting tags and lottery systems and all that. What what states what areas are you guys operating in?
Logan McKinney 9:42
So we do we're based out of Kansas City now. But we will go hunt anywhere I like. My my favorite thing to to chase is big mountain, back country style hunting whether that's mule deer elk hunting, We will, fingers crossed because of some weird things going on this year, we will be able to go out to Colorado and get a veteran or first responder out into the mountains and do a back kick back country style hunt. Fingers crossed Colorado had a crazy winter. They've kind of changed up how they're doing some tags this year, because of how harsh the winter was. So we're working on that. But we also do like whitetail hunting here in Missouri and Kansas. And that's literally as simple as getting a truck full of guys. And going up to where I've got 60 acres, a family farm and we'll go hunt that or the organization just got access to 120 acres south of Kansas City. One of the big goals that I have set for the organization is for Barbary sheep hunts, and West Texas, every year, so it'd be kind of like a staple event that we do a staple hunt that we would do. And that would be you know, out there in West Texas that's actually owned by a veteran. In in West, his guide services in West Texas, he's an Army veteran, and he's got access to like, just ridiculous amounts of acreage. So it's not high fence, but it's not public land either.
Keith McKeever 11:22
If that land out there
Logan McKinney 11:24
in West Texas, dude, it's so big. It goes, it literally goes forever.
Keith McKeever 11:31
It allowed me to drive literally like a whole day across Texas and out of Texas. Yeah,
Logan McKinney 11:36
it's Yeah. Never. I had to drive from Alamogordo, New Mexico to San Antonio. For for test school one year. I don't know if you know this because school is not in San Antonio. It's in Las Vegas. My s four shop gave me the wrong reporting instruction. So I drove all the way to Lachlan checked in first day of the school and had to drive right back across Texas. Man
Keith McKeever 12:10
Oh, that'd be brutal. Yeah. Anyway. Wow. No, I did drive across Texas a couple of times to go down here for combat Leaders Course in seventh level school and it's it's a long drive. Yeah, place you know, if anybody's listening and they've never been to Texas, or they've never tried to drive anywhere across Texas. Like I don't even care if you're going from like Austin to San Antonio. Like that is a hike. Like that alone. And that's like a short distance. Right, Texas. This long? Like, it's Yeah, Texas is huge. Like, you could tell looking at a map, obviously, but it's, it's even worse when you're driving it. So yeah. But
Keith McKeever 12:55
you know, while we're on the topic of animals, I did have some questions. I was gonna kind of save it for the end. But I'll ask now. What is one dream hunt? That is not on your radar. What What's something that you know? Like? It's not already kind of in the works. You kind of mentioned the sheep and stuff in West Texas. But like, What's one thing out there that like, Hey, this is just the awesome like if we could make this happen.
Logan McKinney 13:21
Sitka black tail and Alaska Okay, or caribou in Alaska? That would be interesting. Sitka black tail or caribou. I think it'd be really cool. One of like, my just personal hunting dreams is one year all North American deer species. So Sitka blacktail mule deer, whitetail? Coues deer. One year, all four with a bow.
Keith McKeever 13:58
Well, that would definitely ratchet up the chart, it would be like a bow in there. Yeah. Just the logistics of it was thinking of like caribou and Alaska and some wide open spaces. like it'd be hard enough to make a shot with a rifle, let alone get close enough with a bow. So
Logan McKinney 14:17
yeah, caribou hats off to you. For sure. And Alaska would be those, those two two big big homesteader are possible like they're both over the counter, you can just hop up there and go but it's just hopping up there and go in part.
Keith McKeever 14:38
So no predators No, no black bear or anything else like that.
Logan McKinney 14:42
I mean, I, I've always wanted to hunt black bear, but again, it's not about me. It's about you know, impacting folks and getting them in into wild places and wild things and caribou and Sitka blacktail like that's about as wild as you can get.
Keith McKeever 15:06
See to me like, hunting a bear would be a crazy experience knowing that you're you're you're hunting something that could hunt you. Later there's, there's that fear factor, you know what to do with the boat? Man, you don't want to go to Idaho. I don't know about my bow skills bad, you know, you. We might have to push that off a couple of years. And let me get some training in with a bow.
Logan McKinney 15:36
actually come in, they're being not reintroduced, but the Populate the black bear population in Missouri is just blowing up so we won't have to go very far soon.
Keith McKeever 15:47
We've seen a lot of reports here in Illinois of black bears that are kind of wandering across Illinois. So yeah, we're seeing quite a bit of and mountain lions as well. I'm for I'm not for mountain lions. I'm
Logan McKinney 15:59
for bears.
Keith McKeever 16:01
Yeah, I'm not I'm not too keen on the whole idea of mountain lion sightings here. Yeah,
Logan McKinney 16:04
mountain kittens are angry.
Keith McKeever 16:07
That one I'm not. It's great. Being from the Midwest, let me just say that.
Logan McKinney 16:12
Not much can eat you. As a
Logan McKinney 16:15
kid who grew up here in Illinois. As a little kid, I grew up in a country where I take the garbage out, I lived out in the country dirt road. And as a little kid, like I was, you know, I was afraid of the dark and I take the garbage out like the sounds in the dark. You know, there was like no lights at the end of the road. And like, maybe you would hear a sound in the woods, but like, seriously, like it was probably a raccoon or possum. Maybe a coyote like, fair, maybe nothing that was going to like hurt you. Right? Not rip your face off. Exactly. But now you start thinking about the fact that there's potentially black bears and mountain lions.
Logan McKinney 16:52
Like, yeah.
Keith McKeever 16:55
Yeah, that's not really a very comforting kind of thing. I'm kind of glad I live in town. Now. You know.
Logan McKinney 17:02
When we go out to Colorado, of course, that's always a question. What about mountain lions are out there because then third, like, mountain lions, yeah, bears, black bears. If you if you spook, you know, Mama with their babies like UK, you're in for a fight. But if you just see them, and they see you, they're kind of going to go away. And if they start to get kind of aggressive, you just get big and loud and a black bear will typically scamper off now if it's a grizzly bear GOOD LUCK you know, there is a barrel
Keith McKeever 17:37
firearm, maybe but I mean, that's a little little bit of luck. But that's what they
Logan McKinney 17:42
told us in Alaska. They were like, when I get when our station up there. They say hey, carry bear spray. It's more effective than a than a firearm. Because screw carry both. carry both. That's what I'm saying. Just in case,
Keith McKeever 17:56
after that spray is gone. And that chamber magazine is empty. Right? I'm gonna need something. My hands ain't gonna work. Better have something else to go to? Yeah, spicy keys.
Logan McKinney 18:12
A couple of bears haven't had had a couple of lion like mountain kitty encounters, but I didn't see them but we saw tracks and probably where they were living. But I've never seen never had anything too,
Logan McKinney 18:29
too wild. Or it's like a I've seen a few of the videos on Tiktok and YouTube shorts and whatnot and people just out hiking and they can get pretty pretty aggressive. You know, tracking people down and like yeah, I lived out in Colorado and I was a hiker or anywhere where their predominant, I would make sure that I'm packing packing every time every single time I go out. I'd be out there looking like John Rambo.
Keith McKeever 18:59
I go play around from behind. I better not see it. So always write me that. Yep. But anyway, I mean, that's, that'd be my personal like, to I don't know, to me. I mean, all of me fun or hog hunts would be fun to be Oh, yeah. And yeah, it would be fun. But I think hog hunting from a helicopter would just be
Logan McKinney 19:21
like if we're talking about just fun. And not like a challenge. Type hunt. hog hunting, by far just get out there and slam.
Keith McKeever 19:31
I don't know. Yeah, there we go. Last time I went whitetail hunting, it was a challenge. But I just sat there in the blind with my with my good friend that I grew up with. And we just sat there for hours and hours and hours and froze our butts off. When we find out that the deer were literally hanging around the four wheelers that we parked on the other side of the field. So, you know, it's like, there's a challenge there, I guess. Oh, yeah. You know, despite the boredom, so after that, I was like, why am I doing this? I hate the cold. I mean, I really hate the cold weather and I'm sitting out here, hoping that one of these creatures just walks right in front of me. And you're like, are you we're gonna hang out over the
Logan McKinney 20:08
hill, you're doing it a little, you got to scout. You got to go out beforehand, and just figure out what they're doing. But then that's where it's like, getting like, you got to put time to it.
Keith McKeever 20:19
I left that to my buddy, who's his family farm, you know, he. And he's just like, oh, this is where we're setting up. I'm like, Cool, man. That's good. I'll do that. That's what you say we're doing. It's good. It's your farm, man. I mean, I've been friends with this guy since I preschool like, hey, that's cool, man. So we're gonna, we're going.
Logan McKinney 20:35
He's not going to take me sniper on today, right?
Keith McKeever 20:39
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they, they made fools out of us. So but that, you know, is what it is? Oh, yeah. He's got the best of them a few times. You know, I'll give him credit. I've just never been there to see it. So it'll happen.
Logan McKinney 20:51
It'll come together for it.
Keith McKeever 20:53
Maybe one of these days. So, but they lead me into the next question. What has been your absolute favorite hunt that you bet on?
Logan McKinney 21:08
Oh, man, that sheep hunt, where the light bulb went off. That was one of them. That was just personally fulfilling for me. Kind of got me to where I am here talking with you today. But you know that that had to have been it. That had to have been probably one of my, if not my favorite hunt. I mean, my first deer kill that one. That's a wild story. But that was fun. But just having that light bulb moment and almost finding that refining that purpose and mission in life. Was Was it like, yeah, we I killed a great Ram killed a beautiful, beautiful sheep. Have him haven't mounted in the house. But when I see that, RAM, I don't think of the animal I think of the hunt. I think about everything that went into it. I see Second Chance outdoors. When I see that RAM. Like there's, there's just so much more about that hunt than than that harvest. That that's why it's probably my favorite year to date, for sure.
Keith McKeever 22:29
It makes sense. Now, has there been a you know, of course, I don't want the particulars because of the people situation. But has there been anybody that you've taken out any particular haunts where once you're done, like, you see a drastic impact, a drastic change in somebody's were like, wow, okay, now we've really made a change in this person.
Logan McKinney 22:50
100% I've had, there was one in Utah that we went on. Veteran and an active duty guy, both army. One guy and we we were in the mount, we're on a mountain for like six days on that one. And that was one of our very first, like, sanctioned, board approved hunts that we did. So, you know, programs, new programming is still kind of clunky, if you will, you know,
Keith McKeever 23:21
very much weighing in at that point.
Logan McKinney 23:23
Yeah. And I had one of the guys that was in camp, call me, after, you know, had been, you know, a couple weeks after that. He was like, Hey, man, I just want to let you know, I haven't drink since we got back. And I've had the best relationship I've ever had with my wife. And I just want to thank you. I'm like, Man, that was a mountains. Mountains of talking. Listen, wasn't me. You know, I, I just took him there. We had conversations. real conversations on the side of the mountain in camp, you know, and no booze, no, nothing, no phones, no service, no, anything like that. So it was just solely focused on the task at hand, which was killing an elk and looking inward. He took that forward, I had a guy last year that we took out to Colorado, his very first time going to Colorado. We were sitting at 11,000 Something feet in the middle, middle of the night, sitting by the fire, kind of recapping the day, just just BS and then he told a story and was able to essentially close a chapter of his life and then start to write, you know, the next chapter. He lost his brother to the mountains, the mountains, took his brother from him and a plane crash and so he never got back to the mountains. He never went into the mountains for kind of that, that fear. And he does nonprofit work now as well. But taking him in there, having a mobile space that fear and Having that closure has completely. It's helped him whenever you kind of get to close that grieving process chapter. Like dude, you just get weight, completely lifted off your shoulders. At that point. Same hunt, our photographer, he was a, a Army veteran, an Iraq war veteran, he, he told a story in camp and I'm not gonna I'm not going to share his story. He's a phenomenal photographer, his, his company is called great wide open media. And so you can go find, and that's why I'm not going to share his in particular story. But after that night of stories and talking and just working through some stuff, he woke up that next day, and he looked around at the mountains, he looked, he said, he said, many things talk. So what, and he looks around, he's pointing at the mountains. And the place that we're in, I cannot describe to you but it's like, just breathtaking, breathtaking, gorgeous, just absolutely stunning. He's like these things, talk to you. And I get it. I get this now. Let's roll and packed up camp and off. Off, we rolled on the hunt man like it was there's been some really cool, really cool interactions and conversations that have had to happen in camp that I know that it's not just me that, you know, has benefited from the outdoors. But it's almost reaffirming that holy shit, this works. You know what I mean?
Keith McKeever 26:36
I mean, that's why I asked him, I figured without a doubt that there's probably numerous situations where you literally sat there and either heard it or saw it right on somebody's face, like that moment where, oh, yeah, that weight lifted off, or somebody's just like, Oh, hey, the world has just changed for them. The perspective has changed. The mindsets changed.
Logan McKinney 27:00
That's it. I mean, because you talked about, you talked about wellness as a journey, right? And like, not as an end state. And so while we're in camp, we kind of talk about that, like, Guys, what happened to you doesn't define who you are, like, if you got if you, you know, got hit with an ID, or if you've been involved in an officer involved shooting, or whatever that looks like, yes, that happened to you, but it doesn't define who you are. And you're going to have good days, and you're going to have bad days. You just got to practice. And that's all this is. That's all this wellness journey is, is practicing and putting into play, putting into putting into practice modalities and procedures and tactics to help you get to more better days, because I still have bad days. I'm sure you still have bad days. And it's, you know what, it's all right. Because sometimes, you stub your toe first thing in the morning, you're like, there it is. There's the day. Yeah, well, the trick is
Keith McKeever 28:01
to have more good days than bad days, for sure. That's it.
Logan McKinney 28:04
And we talked about, we talked about giving yourself a little bit of grace, right? Post Traumatic Stress, post, depression, anxiety, all the things that come from service. It's a normal reaction to an abnormal event that occurred. You know what I mean? Like, it's okay, you got to accept that. getting blown up is terrifying. Being involved in an officer involved shooting is absolutely terrifying. You know, losing a friend to suicide or losing a friend in combat is, is that grief is tremendous. And it's a word that you can't even put into words. But if we put in place practices and procedures and give ourselves a little bit, a little bit of grace, for when we have bad days, guess what, those bad days aren't as bad? Because like, you know what? I'm working. I'm trying. I'm getting better a little bit every each day a little bit better each day. Excuse me.
Keith McKeever 29:05
Yeah. One thing I like to I personally like to do is really helped me over the last probably five or six months. It's just remind myself every morning to be grateful. You know, every day like, Hey, I'm here today. Today may not go my way. It may not go the way I planned. It may not go perfect. Well, nothing's perfect, but nothing's perfect. I'm here, my family's here.
Keith McKeever 29:34
I got the chance to make today. A good day, you know, the best day that I can. That's it, you know, and as somebody you know, that I know kind of says, you know, he just wants to make himself 1% better today, which I love. You know, it's like, you shouldn't end today the same as you were yesterday. You know, as long as you're at least 1% better, as long as you know a little something better, or you add a little skill or you've achieved Have something today like, it's a good day. Today is a good day grateful for it.
Logan McKinney 30:05
It's awesome that you mentioned gratitude. Because like I have, I'm gonna try to do this. In our like, what we bring up on the, the mountain with us, this is weird. But we literally take a journal on to the mountain or end of the deer stand. And every morning, guys that come through us with us, they wake up and I want give me your daily goals for the day. And give me just three things that you're grateful for whether that's waking up, breathing, and coffee, like I don't care what and how basic those three things are. Like, just wake up and find something to be thankful for. Because it changes your mindset for the whole day.
Keith McKeever 30:49
Like don't be late, a heck of a lot better than like flipping on your phone and go into social media and all of a sudden his negative stuff or football on the TV see in the news. And all of a sudden it's negative stuff like it's immediately starting with positive.
Logan McKinney 31:04
I have put into practice in my life. No phone, when I wake up in the morning. There's a little caveat to that, because I do like I work out in the morning. And so I use my phone for my workouts. And then I use it to track my rocks. That's it. can use it to track my workout and track my rocks, no social media, no emails, no nothing until after breakfast, because like I want to be present during my workout. I want to be present during breakfast with my family before everybody departs for the craziness of the day. Then I'll dive into I usually I try to stay on freaking social media in the morning, man like even though you have to do it.
Keith McKeever 31:51
Like weird double edged sword, isn't it? I wish social media man, I wish I didn't have it. But when you're a business owner, whether it's for profit or not, like you have to be on it. Like you have to be engaged. It's like, I don't want to but I have to like one.
Logan McKinney 32:06
One thing that we've been talking about as as an organization and as a board is growth, right? Because if if we're not growing, we're dying, and we want to grow as an organization to take our mission further. And it'll mean social media videos. So everybody's harping on me right now. And I mean this in in, in the most playful as well. I love my board, like without them. I couldn't do what I do. But they're like, Dude, you got to do more videos. I'm like so I'm trying when I get out in my rocks in the morning to do like a little video, but I hate just holding my phone and like walking down the street. Like, I don't know, man, like I'm not to toot my own horn, raise my flag and clap for me kind of guy. Like I'm putting in the work. We're going to take your hunt, and we're getting it done on the back end. Like let's roll.
Keith McKeever 33:00
Sometimes it takes a mindset shift. Yeah, of like, sometimes epic proportions to like, get adjusted to video.
Logan McKinney 33:09
Oh, yeah.
Keith McKeever 33:12
Doing this podcast actually helped me with my business with doing video. Got me a lot more comfortable with doing video, but you still have to sometimes just just do it, just get creative and just do it. Because it's different. Like those aren't interviews. It's just me shooting video and then upload, like, so sometimes you just have to just do it, even though it's uncomfortable, or mad, you know, is
Logan McKinney 33:38
that's what it is. It's like just doing the thing that you know, is what's going to promote growth, whether that's personal or professional. And you know, it's probably gonna be a little weird.
Keith McKeever 33:50
Perspective wise, though, I don't I don't know how old you are. But as soon we're about the same age 34. Okay, I'm 38. So we're in a same generation where we know and understand how to use social media. We get all of that. Yep. But we're not young enough, where, like, we use it all the time for everything. And we're not old enough, where we have no clue. And we can just rely on being clueless. Right. So it's like, kind of a double edged sword of like, yeah, you're young enough, like you'd know what to do, and you should be doing it. But you're not gonna be doing this. You don't have the muscle memory of being young enough to be like, I grew up with all these social platforms to be a part of my life since I was a baby. Yeah, so therefore, my entire life has grown his book and Twitter and Instagram and all these different things. Like we, as young adults, these platforms came out and we were you know, I mean, I had Facebook when it was a.edu account, I mean, oh, yeah. I'm not old. So like, it's like, Yeah, I've seen every iteration of Facebook doesn't mean that it's like, I know, I've seen all kinds of versions of it, like I know how to use it doesn't mean doesn't mean it, it becomes natural for me to just use it every single day. And it doesn't it's not a natural part of my life every single day to just use it.
Logan McKinney 35:21
And it's so negative, like, there's so much negative stuff on social media, it seems like that's all like fake, like, just news, hostile news. It's never anything good, right?
Keith McKeever 35:33
That's why, well, I was on there this morning posted stuff or the I just schedule stuff. Like, I just make the posts, I schedule them. If I see that there's something I need to respond to I respond to it. And I try to just keep it adjusted that my personal page, same thing, like I try and post some stuff every now and then and just get on there and respond to stuff. I try not to scroll through. And definitely try not to engage. Because it's just sad. What some people will post nude. I don't wanna go too far down the rabbit hole. But it's weird what some people will post in the post decide very decisive stuff, which you have to be very careful as a business owner, you know, for profit limit. I know you're you're in business to like for profit business, but you've got this nonprofit, like, it's weird what people will post and try and get people to like, I almost fell for Friday morning on something. Here we are recording this June. And that's all I'm going to say. But it there's a couple of things that Jun is known for as a month. And people were trying to pick one side over the other. And I'm like, you can support both at the same time. So okay.
Keith McKeever 36:41
What's the harm? About just don't
Logan McKinney 36:43
be a jerk to people? Like, yeah, just be a good human.
Keith McKeever 36:47
Exactly. Just we can leave it at that. Yeah, it's not that difficult. People are current and allowed. Yeah. Yes, wow. It's really not that difficult. But for some reason, people make it harder than it should be. So but, you know, anyway, back back to humans and good people. Before we go too far down that rabbit hole like that. The humans that you help with your nonprofit? Who is your who is your ideal candidate that gets you guys like to take out on these
Logan McKinney 37:22
expeditions? So we, the ideal candidate for us is active duty veteran first responder honorably discharged. And there's reasons for this that'll come full circle here legally allowed to possess a firearm. So there's that one, right? A wildlife tag license. So just being able to legally being able to go hunting, right. I'm not looking. We organization, we're not crisis response organization. So if you're in current crisis, really struggling with the thought of suicide, or the thought of like, harming yourself or whatever, like, we're not going to take you to the back country, because that's not the place for you right now. There's a lot of things that can go wrong in that country. And
Keith McKeever 38:25
you might be a little bit more suited for a phishing tour or something like that, versus, you know, way out remote environment. Yeah, absolutely.
Logan McKinney 38:32
And that's sort of the safety of everybody involved, right. Quite frankly, in our resources. I am not, we aren't a crisis response organization, you know what I mean? So we're looking for somebody who has maybe been in crisis, and has come out of that, right, like, they're on the, on the upside of coming out of that hole. And they're, they, they put into practice a few things. And then they know that they don't want to go backwards and they're looking, they're looking inward, to get better. That's who I want to talk to talk to that police officer, I want to talk to that firefighter, I want to talk to that veteran, those are the kinds of folks we want to talk to people who are out of crisis that are looking to grow and get better after being after surviving, you know that that ordeal
Keith McKeever 39:24
would be safe too. So people that are just kind of just trying to navigate their trauma navigate their mental health trying to just find that clarity. Like just trying to navigate that stress navigate that, that I guess we'll say a minefield when it comes to mind. You know, your your mindset like it's, it's a weird it's a weird place to try and figure out like, who am I now? Where am I and keep everything clear and
Logan McKinney 39:53
you just need outside perspective and go sit on a mountain and have a cup of coffee. So yes, I think That's, that's a great way of putting it and another, I guess, category of veterans and first responders that that we would love to connect with and love to help. Okay.
Keith McKeever 40:13
All right, yeah, figure is really important to kind of paint that picture of, you know, the kind of people that you can really help and who you can't help.
Logan McKinney 40:21
Now, if you are in crisis, like, I have resources and other organizations that were tapped into, that I that I can direct you to, so please like, don't not call me if, if that's the situation, but you, again, you know, we're, we're on the other side of, we're on the other side of that, right growth, we're on the growth side of it,
Keith McKeever 40:46
there's only so much you can do. And you know, it's a good point to say out there, this scroll this up here, if somebody is struggling, and at that point, the National Suicide Prevention Hotline is nine at press one. So I'm gonna go ahead and leave that up there for a minute.
Logan McKinney 41:00
Veterans don't knock the VA crisis line, like don't, don't knock it, it works. It's there for a reason. It has a very specific task. And it's very good at its at its task. So if you were in that position, reach out to the Veterans Crisis Line as well. Cops, I know they kind of are in a weird space, kind of like, well, you know, you're you're a cop in the Air Force very, very similar spot, like, mental health is a weird thing that you kind of don't talk about. And it's the same way in civilian law enforcement. For law enforcement officers. There's an organization called Who won 100 Cops, I believe it's on our it's on our resources page. But that is essentially the Veterans Crisis Line for police officers, ran by retired police officers who are now like licensed counselors and credentialed people to be able to help you. And then what they do is they take it to the next level, and help that police officer find inpatient or outpatient care outside of their agency so they can remain protected.
Keith McKeever 42:12
Oh, that's nice. No, I did not know that. It's Wait, that is really good to know.
Logan McKinney 42:17
Had a friend of mine, who's a really good friend of mine, a survivor and owes it to those guys. So
Keith McKeever 42:25
that's really good to know. Yep, definitely, we'll keep that in mind may have to find a nice little place on my website to highlight that as well. So you know, another another thing I want to ask, you know, kind of about the people that you take out is obviously sometimes you have transporting firearms, and stuff like that. So, what should people know about transporting firearms or transporting things across state lines and different things like that? Or? Or are you guys taking care taking care of some of that stuff for them? Or how does the logistics work on some of that stuff?
Logan McKinney 42:58
So logistically, like transporting firearms over state lines, if we're if we're running through communist states and stuff like that, obviously, we're gonna have to abide by commie laws. But typically, the folks that we're working with cops, firefighters, military, they're all up to speed on safe firearm transportation. But as far as the actual logistics of the hunt, Keith, say, I'm taking you on a hunt, man, literally, I'm gonna make a phone call to you. I'm gonna, I'm gonna drive over to your house, whichever one it is, right? We're gonna have a conversation to say I'm gonna take your hunt and you don't have to worry about anything else. I'm gonna start sending you lists, training guides, if we're out west on a big backpack style hunt, because you got to be in shape. You don't have to be in like, you know, nine and a half minute mile and a half PT stud shape, but you got to be prepared for hiking. You know what I mean?
Keith McKeever 43:54
A lot of people just love it let out a sigh of relief right there.
Logan McKinney 43:57
Right, you don't have to be like David Goggins to go Funny People trust me, because I am not. But you do want to put in some effort preseason, to make the actual experience that much better. Because if you're just like, sucking wind the whole time, like,
Keith McKeever 44:16
start training a date at David Goggins level of like, 10% we get
Logan McKinney 44:22
so we'll send it will send but as a second chance, we take care of everything we pay for your tag, we pay for your license, we pay for your gas, you can fly and we'll pay for the airfare anything that comes from the hunt, anything that involved with the hunt, our organization covers, because we also know that I was a civilian police officer I was in the military like you don't get paid a lot. And sometimes a week long hunt can be you know, costly for first responder or a veteran. So if we can just ease one more burden And then I can get them to be a little bit more open, a little bit more relaxed and a little bit more focused on the task at hand, which is wellness, not a financial burden.
Keith McKeever 45:13
Awesome. Well, that definitely helps people. So I guess last thing I want to talk about you kind of alluded to it, you showed the journal earlier. But you mentioned journaling, we talked before, and I love this stuff, journaling, breathwork, and meditation, which I think are three things that I absolutely love, that you kind of talked to all these men and women that you would take out that you kind of talk about these things and try and get them to work on practice and stuff like that. So tell us why those things and how you're, you're kind of teaching those and trying to intertwine that into the, into the hunts.
Logan McKinney 45:51
Why those things? Why why journaling? Journaling for me, and I can only speak on on, you know, personal experience, right? Is it's a tangible release of information. Whether it's good, bad or indifferent, right? If, if, if I'm journaling, and I just need to get something out, if if I'm having a day, right, and I need to get something out of my brain, or I'm in a fog, and I can write about it, like I can get it out. And essentially, like turn the page and close it right. Like it's there. It's no longer causing anxiety, it's no longer causing stress, because that's what we're trying to mitigate. But it also gives you something to look back at, too, right? So we're talking about, this is a journey, you want to see where we've come from and where we're going and things like that. Well, I want I know that some days, I have bad days, why did I have that bad day, if I'm keeping a log of kind of like what I was doing that day, you know, and I can start to track those key metrics almost, of what may or may not have caused that bad day. And I can start to mitigate and minimize those, those stressors. That's another good way of looking at it. But again, talking about the mindfulness and meditation portion, too, we have a portion in our in our journal that we take out on hunts called midday mindfulness. And what that is, is simply in the middle of the day, stop, read the journal prompt. And it is a mindfulness prompt. It is all about being where you are being where your feet are, and then writing about it. Because then Keith, like, say, You're my hunter, if I can get you to that space, you're going to feel it in your body, right? You are going to feel like this, just this immediate calm, you're gonna feel it in your shoulders, you're gonna feel it in your body, you're gonna feel relaxed, you're gonna feel grounded, then I can look and be like that. That feeling right there. That one? Think about it reminded me keep it think about it forever. Because then we can roll into the next piece was you're talking about breathwork, right? If I was talking to a veteran on a hunting trip, about hey, man, we're gonna work on some meditation and breathwork. What you want me to do, what kind of crazy shit
Keith McKeever 48:17
are you talking about? Yeah, like
Logan McKinney 48:18
what kind of hippie crap you're talking about, like listening like, it's fine, listen. But if I can get you to physically feel that, and then backwards planning from there, to work your breath work into that, then you're going to know what it feels like, you're going to almost know what it looks like to be successful in that breath work. And then we just practice breath work. Simple based breathing techniques. What they call it insecurity forces, cotton. I'm sure they call it that and everywhere else. All right, yeah. Just a few seconds in, hold. Few seconds out. Repeat. And literally all you got to do is focus on breath in, and the breath out. And then when we get to that point, and we're talking about that stuff in camp, they'll start practicing it on their own. We'll sit down on a regimen or glass and then I can also I'll see people, man, I'll see him, I'll see him practice. And you know that like they're buying in, and by, you know, the end of the week. They're 100% bought in and we have now given them given them tools, tactics and procedures to come off the mountain with practice in their daily life and start getting better. Like, love it. I think I think I answered your question. I'm not sure I kind of
Keith McKeever 49:48
know. I love it. Like I said, we I know we talked about it before when we talked to him four weeks ago, like I love those things. But you didn't do Those are things that I've incorporated into my life for a variety of reasons here for a handful of months, and I have found them to be incredibly powerful, especially meditation. Just meditation and reflection. Yes. Not necessarily journaling. But just constant reflection. I constantly reflect anything happens, good or bad. And I'm constantly reflecting, you know, business deals, or this that another happens in life. And I'm always reflecting okay, what happened? Why? What went good? What went bad? What could I have done differently? Good or bad? You know what I mean? It just always assess the situation, or decisions happen in life, and just what was within my control? What was with that? What was out of my control? You know, like, what, what, what am I letting to into bother me and not bother me.
Logan McKinney 50:54
I was just, I, before, before we went live, I was telling you, I had that construction thing occur. And I said, Oh, send it off firing off emails trying to figure out who this construction company, is that the third, right? And I just stopped for a minute. I wouldn't call it meditation. I wouldn't call it like real breathwork. But literally just took a couple of big deep breaths and had a thought like, Man, this is a lot like, reacting to contact, right? I have my day planned. We have a mission planned. That mission and that day are supposed to go X, Y, and Z. I think one of the things that we get caught up with is veterans or first responders that have been in that situation. Think of negative things that come into our day, as something completely wildly and just completely uncontrollable. Well think about it. When you're working the street on a traffic stop. The guy turns and shoots at you. That's uncontrollable, right, but you trained and you practiced and you fought through it. Take that same mindset to your day, when you're thinking about all those crazy things that come in to play and wreck your day. Well think of it almost like as a near ambush, right? Like react to the contact, receive the information. Breathe a little bit, because we're not under fire. It's not life or death right now. Breathe for a second. process that information in the best possible, make us decision possible. And guess what? You're not always going to make the right one. Give yourself a little grace. That one for me, man. giving myself a little grace has been an absolute game changer for myself.
Keith McKeever 52:34
Yeah, and I don't like when you don't make the right decision. Reflect on it. Yeah, learn. Don't just be like, oh, man, I'm stupid, man. I'm the wrong decision. You know, that's the wrong attitude to take. Just be like, Okay, I really goofed that up. What was my mindset? When I made that decision? What were the factors that led me to decide it? Because in that moment, that was the right decision. You didn't have other information to make the right decision, if you would have you might have made the right decision. Right. So
Keith McKeever 53:06
just learn how you learn from it and be like, Okay, I learned from it. And so if I'm faced with this again, hopefully I react to that contact in a little bit. Totally better way. 1% Better 1% Better, right. Exactly. Like it's, it's all you can do so. And there's a lot to that man.
Logan McKinney 53:25
And I want I want anybody who's listening to realize that it guys this isn't a destination, like wellness isn't a death, like you don't get to an end state. It's just practice. It is literally just trying to suck a little bit less each day. Like I read that alpha softly they're, they're a little slogan is suck less a little bit each day. Like it's harsh way of saying get 1% better, right?
Keith McKeever 53:53
I mean, you know, cuz cuz, is there anybody in this world you could look at and be like, That person is perfect. No, not one person, not one person. They don't. You can't point to that person. You definitely can't point to yourself and say this person is perfect. So nobody's gonna get their note. So yeah, exactly. All you can do is just be 1% Better.
Logan McKinney 54:15
Practice and grace. And go get outside.
Keith McKeever 54:19
Get outside get yourself grounded. Yep, absolutely. So when there's a lot of great stuff there Logan, I appreciate you stopping by Sharon. Before I let you go in any any particular place that everybody obviously still got to scroll and it'll be in the show notes too. But where can everybody reach Second Chance outdoors at
Logan McKinney 54:39
Second Chance outdoors dotnet. Second Chance outdoors dotnet is our website. Second Chance, underscore out. Second, underscore chance underscore outdoors I would imagine if you just search Second Chance outdoors on all social media platforms. You'll Find us if you need to get a hold of me shoot me an email Logan at Second Chance outdoors.net Man, we're that's it. We're all social media platforms. I think we have a tick tock I've never used it so I don't like social media apparently you
Keith McKeever 55:17
need to do more videos and get them one more day challenge video, sir. Yeah,
Logan McKinney 55:25
right like you guys do this to flip the script. Yeah, I'll just throw it on. I'll be I'll be posting some videos as we get ready for a big event we have in Kansas City coming up on on Instagram. So that's where I'll do that. Now I have to do because I put it on your show too.
Logan McKinney 55:45
Yeah, well, hey, I'm speaking into existence. Now you got to do it. Now you're held to it. Accountability. That's it. So awesome. Well, Logan I once again I appreciate you stopping by and sharing with us and
Keith McKeever 56:01
hope you good luck on whatever the next hunt is.
Logan McKinney 56:04
Absolutely. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yep, we'll talk soon.
Keith McKeever 56:09
Here we go folks. I hope you enjoyed it. Remember the website is battle buddy podcast dot det. As I always say if there's a resource not on there that you think should be please reach out. Let me know I'd love to take a look at possibly adding it on there. And if you're struggling with anything, the National Suicide Hotline number is 988 Press one, or you can text 838255
