Filmmaker Ash Patino knew very little about PTSD and how it affects the veteran population.  As a filmmaker she directs documentary films on topics that either need to be told or are misunderstood topics.  One of her latest works is PTSD: The Walking Wounded, discusses the effects of PTSD on the service member as well as their loved ones.   This is a very deep documentary and sheds an important light on PTSD and how it affects the veteran population.  This film could be a great tool for anyone looking to understand PTSD and the traumas of war especially those closest to someone suffering.  Catch this amazing documentary on Amazon, iTunes or other platforms!  

Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:

www.playforyourfreedom.org

Transcript from Episode 34 with Ash Patino:

Keith McKeever 0:03

Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. Hey there. Welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast. We've got a really interesting podcast episode for you today. I stumbled upon ash PITINO here by random chance in a Facebook group she had posted about a film. She's a director of PTSD, the walking wounded, which is available on Amazon, YouTube, Apple TV and some more platforms. And you had just had a post about the film. And I was like, Oh, wow, cool. I've never heard of this. So I immediately go start looking for it. I found it on Amazon. And I was like, Cool, I'm gonna pay the $3.99, whatever it was to watch it. And I start right here in my office. And I watched it. And I was like, Wow, there's so many. And I know we talked about this before, there's so many different like parallels. Like, it just kind of spoke to me, one of the guys is also deployed to a prison camp, just the stories is that it is it kind of just evolved. I was like, wow, I've experienced this a lot or to a certain degree, it was really interesting. So I knew at that point, I had to go back to that post and reach out to you. And, and get you on the podcast to kind of bring some light on this film, and PTSD, and why you did it. But without further ado, Ash. Go ahead and tell us a little about yourself and how you got into film work. Recode real curious to hear about that.

Ash Patino 1:27

Oh, well. Thank you. Thanks for having me on your show. So excited to be here. So I'm a director, producer, I usually tried to do films or series about subjects that I think need better explaining maybe things maybe I didn't understand that. Now I understand. So I want people to see what I've seen. Or also, I also do to crime stuff where trying to uncover mysteries about a specific case that isn't maybe getting the type of attention I believe that might need. And the cops might not be doing all that they can. So that's kind of what we do is put pressure that way too. So I kind of make things really to try to help kind of change people's hearts and minds about what's kind of in front of them or to help them better understand a topic while like this film PTSD.

Keith McKeever 2:19

Absolutely. Well, I think you nailed it on this one. Because like I said, As I watched it, I was like, Wow, there's so many. So many things. I felt like, it's hard to explain, but just like deepen me, I'm like, I get it. Like I've experienced that, or I where I get it at least. And so it was really, really interesting. And then yeah, it was just a, I was so striking. I immediately went upstairs, I don't know, if I told you this before I immediately went upstairs to my wife. And I was like, hey, flip on Amazon. I got this. This is like good for a week or whatever it was a couple of days, whatever. Amazon's I don't, I don't rent too many movies on Amazon Prime. But I was like, Hey, you got to watch this, like, watch this. And tell me what you think. Because there were so many close connections in it. That I was like, if I felt like hearing it from another person, some of the things that I experienced or things that I felt would help my wife. So I think that there's a lot of value in that for her to have a better understanding of me, or just veterans in general PTSD and stuff. So it was it was really interesting. I think it can help a lot of different audiences. Because of that. It helps veterans it helps the spouse it helps the general public understand.

Ash Patino 3:34

Well, yeah, it's like amazing to hear you say that because I'm not Yvette and I not experiencing PTSD. So, you know, you hear that term thrown around nowadays, oh, I have PTSD or people even joke, you know, I PTSD from this crazy night last night. You know, we say that now. And really, it actually though, is something very serious. And when I started to really kind of see what PTSD was and what that meant, and the fact that there were men and women coming back after serving our country and, and felt that maybe no one cared about them, once they got back or their lives have changed significantly. It really kind of, you know, broke my heart because you could see some of the pain that they were going through. So with the film, we really tried to normalize it from a standpoint that this is something that a lot of vets deal with, I think the numbers around 20%. And I feel like if we kind of normalize it and talk about it more openly, it might be something that people maybe give someone a little more leniency because they understand that they're dealing with PTSD, or maybe you yourself feel validation through watching it because you're experiencing some of the same thing. So the thoughts of oh my god, I'm crazy or why can't I manage my emotions properly? You can kind of give yourself a little break and understand that well, that's not your fault. And there are some things that can be done to maybe mitigate gait it and there's hope, because there are people, survivors who are living happy and healthy lives and to see that I think is really important for somebody who's in the thick of it. Because sometimes you feel like you're in a black hole and can't get out. But if you can see other people who are gone have gone through what you have now living successfully, I think it really gives you hope that that can be used someday or gives you steps to take to get in that direction.

Keith McKeever 5:24

Yeah, you you have some people on here that really personified that like, who overcame the the guy who had been at the prison camp, you know, that I felt a connection with because I don't even know if we're at the same place. But as his story is unfolding, you know, he had talked about drug and alcohol abuse and addiction problems. And it's like, wow, there's a lot. There's a lot of people that have that, but they're here he is talking in the film, and saying, like, Hey, this is behind me. I'm recovering. But it's like a daily struggle. It's a daily battle, which it is for every every person who's overcoming addiction. But isn't that you know, none of that is really, it's weird, because it defines you, but it doesn't define you, like his mind says the right direction to heal. You know, and I think that's where people need to realize that PTSD is just your, your brains reaction to a stressful traumatic experience, and you're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days. And you just have to have the right mentality of like, it is part of me what I'm, I'm not gonna let it define me. Yeah, you know, you can't get over it. But you can develop the tools to deal with it better, or recognize it, you know, and stop something from becoming a big issue. So I appreciate films, you know, or films, just people talking about mental health because there's a stigma, huge stigma on mental health, mental health and addiction and a handful of other things that nobody ever wants to talk about, unfortunately. But everybody, I think everybody in this world has somebody that they know, really close, very close family member has dealt with one of those kinds of things. Mm hmm. But nobody wants to talk about it.

Ash Patino 7:11

Oh, absolutely. Well, and I think I think that's such a good point, too, is because, you know, a lot of the men and women who are dealing with PTSD turned to forms of addiction to help overcome the symptoms that they're having. And I think that's another thing that people have to recognize is the people dealing with PTSD are trying to survive, they do actually want to be here and alive. That's why they're kind of fighting this battle internally. And all of a sudden, they're offered a drug or alcohol, that takes a lot of that pain away, or maybe even erases it. Now, granted, it does obviously cause much more dramatic, horrifying problems down the road, and then exasperates, the PTSD. But I think is what is so important is that if you can understand that about somebody who you love, or maybe who is a veteran that maybe you can look at that is somewhere, okay, so we still need help here. And we need intervention here. But this may be isn't this was how they were trying to survive. It wasn't some vindictive course that they took, it wasn't like, I'm going to become addicted to opioids, because this is going to be the next fun chapter. It's it's literally I think, happening for survival. And I think if we can see that, clearly, we can help get people to the right places, or established in the right communities, rather than just being like, Oh, my God, what a crazy person with all these emotions, oh, now they have an addiction problem, you know, and now they're just the squeaky wheel and can't do anything. Right. And so it just compounds and compounds and compounds. So I think, you know, if we can recognize that either if we're dealing with it in ourselves or in a family member, I think it gives us some room to try to get the right kind of help, rather than just pointing the finger at the person who's really struggling at that moment.

Keith McKeever 8:52

Absolutely, because pointy fingers doesn't doesn't help anybody. And nobody wakes up one day and says, Hey, I want to be addicted to opioids, or cocaine or alcohol or video games, pornography. I mean, there's so many different things you could be addicted to, right? Like nobody wakes up and says, Oh, yeah, this is gonna be my new life. Like, I this is what I want. No, it's it's it's a numbing type of activity. And I'm no mental health person, but it's just like a numbing activity, right to temporary relief from whatever's going on in your head, the thoughts, the feelings, whatever, you know, and it's, it's not the healthy way of doing it the way things no go into counseling and dealing with things and it and it sucks. You know, because I think I told you the other day when we talk, I was like, I didn't realize for years that I had PTSD, because I looked at everything is like, you know, no offense to you, but the film industry, like still, I know your documentary side of things, but, you know, Hollywood likes to portray everything as punching your spouse, and he's extremely funny. It outbursts and stuff. And it's not, that's not real for most people. So that's why I denied that I had any problem didn't realize that self isolation in my office, or maybe a snappy attitude here or there was, you know, a form of PTSD and it does affect your life. And then once once those blinders come off, and you're dealing with a counselor, and they can help you see those things. That's when you can address issues. Mm hmm. That's when you can start heading problems off before they become a problem.

Ash Patino 10:28

Yeah, well, and that's, and that's really what I think we're trying to show in the film is exactly what you said, there is, yes, of course, the narratives in Hollywood, you know, make it the real dramatic scenes. But as what we're trying, where we really tried to show is the day to day stuff, you know, the things that each and every that who has PTSD seems to struggle with because I think that's part of the thing, you people immediately see something like, oh, I guess I'm not that bad. So maybe I don't have PTSD, or, Oh, I don't want to hurt my spouse, I guess I don't have PTSD. And then they don't realize like, what you were saying is that isolation is a huge part of that, you know, maybe just private suicidal ideation, you're not going to actually do it, and you're not, you know, planning it, per se. But you just think about it a lot. Or maybe you think my life would be better if I wasn't here or other people's lives would be better if I wasn't here. And so I think it's just remembering that even those types of thoughts, even that way of thinking is probably something's dysregulated within a person, and it's really just then trying to find what that dysregulation isn't seen if you can mitigate it somewhat.

Keith McKeever 11:35

Yeah, you know, I, I think when you sit there, and, and you put it, like you just did about comparing, like, oh, well, mine's not, I must not have a problem, because mine is not like that. I think that's dangerous. And I would actually argue that some of those actions are not physically as harmful to your spouse, but they are potentially just as harmful to your spouse, and they can ruin your marriage, your relationship just as fast by self isolation, or other things. You know, it's it, it doesn't look as bad, right? It looks bad. If you're, if you're, you know, obviously, physically abusing your spouse. But, of course, it's not really necessarily abuse to be, you know, isolating, but it is kind of neglect in some ways. Totally, you're neglecting them. But you know, and also, in some ways, like you're doing, you're coping in your way, you know, and that's where counseling and getting help and talking to people helps. Well, yeah, middle ground, where you're taking care of yourself, and you're taking care of your relationships. And then once those start getting better, I think you start seeing your life improve.

Ash Patino 12:47

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think we see we see staggering number of vets come back and their family establishment is not what it was. So potentially, their spouse is gone, someone's moved, kids have been moved, you don't come back to the household you left in and there's no pointing fingers there. Because each relationship has to go through its own stuff. But for a vet to come home to all of a sudden an environment that is not even what they left and was not their expectation is probably pretty damaging itself. And so I think it's really to remembering that being a vet, in general, you can lose the life you had before, but then dealing with PTSD, then you get hit a second time. So you potentially lost your life the first time after you came home, and then now you're dealing with PTSD, and you're going to destroy anything that's left of it. And even if that's a slow process, you know, even if it's not something that you pull the ripcord and it's there, but you can it's it's a slow trickle until it's still end. So then it just causes more damage to someone with PTSD, because now they don't understand why they can't hold down a relationship, or they don't know why they can't treat their spouse, you know, with respect, you know, they are very confused by that. And so I think that's really important to remember is that there's a lot of change happening with that. And we have to give them a little bit of space to adjust to that change.

Keith McKeever 14:16

Absolutely. Because it's all a downward spiral. Like, you start adding on all those extra little things. It's like, what's the saying death by 1000 cuts. They just build up over a long time. And then boom, you just wake up one day and you know, I hate to get you know, super graphic on the show, but you just wake up one day and all of a sudden, the gun is by your side, or the bottle of pills is there and you're looking at it and your mind goes Fuck it. Yeah, like that's, that's the problem. That's that's the end. Like you have to it's, you have a fork in the road. With this you. You have the downward spiral to that or you take the path of trying to heal and try and get better. Absolutely, and some people Addiction and other things you get its hold on you and drag you down. It's harder to fight I get it, you know, it's it's a hell of a hole to climb out of it, but some people do it. There's, there's plenty of examples out there to see. So, you know, for anybody's listening if they're in that boat, I've had Richard Kaufman on in vertical momentum podcast and he's been a recovering alcoholic for 33 years, something like that. That's, you know, and he'd be the first one to tell you if you listen to his podcast. It's it's a daily struggle for him, you know? So, but this film how I'm curious, how did you get? You know, since you like to make films about topics and a little bit more press? How did this come across in front of your eyes?

Ash Patino 15:44

Well, I started working with this group called play for your freedom. The gentleman who runs the group is named David Lionheart, I'm telling you don't get near him, because he'll suck you into whatever he's doing. Because he's just such he's got this like, very innocent, amazing view of the world and wanting to help people. So I kind of got pulled in to just see if I could help of our volunteer with them. But and I thought kind of thought to myself when David Lionheart explained to me what the group was when he said, we go get vets out of hospitals a lot of times, and we get them to play football, and it helps them with their PTSD. So I was very, like, what are you doing? I know, serious PTSD is so even I had a little, just a little understanding of it, I still believed it was very serious. And I could see that people were struggling. So I was like, how in God's name, does playing football help this at all. And so I started watching and you know, the first time they got a small group to come out, and they kind of got, you know, basically railroaded by the guys just just being bats and cursing and throwing footballs and ate all the food, and then they left. And, and then they had another one coming up. And I was like, What the hell's gonna happen at this one, but they brought other vets with them. And they all took roles in helping that's that couldn't even play football who were in wheelchairs, or for other reasons, found roles that they could participate in. Whether it was you know, getting the football helmet signed, or helping, you know, set up tables and tents and stuff. And then pretty soon, they got ex football players to come out, look, you know, like Gary Brown from the Green Bay Packers. And pretty soon, these guys are helping also. And it just kept growing and growing. And I could see the vets starting to help the other vets. And so not only were they getting to do a physical activity, instead of being faced with like a bar or drugs on any way, but kind of a healthy adrenaline pumping activity, they were able to then help the other guys and it was just insane this community it created. And a lot of them were really struggling during that time. And it's not that none of you know not that there haven't been any losses here. Because there always is when you're dealing with subjects like this. But I think there has been so many lives saved and just watching it. And it seems kind of crazy when you think about it. But it was just it was really, you know, it's not the football plane. It's the community that David Lionheart created. And they, they all call each other and email and keep in touch with one another. So it just created this really nice community where people could reach out there check in at all the games and started communicating with one another, again, to make them part of a team again, because when you get out of the military, you come home, and you're just kind of ripped away from that life you knew before and all those friends you had and all that camaraderie, you don't have that anymore. And I saw this starting to be reestablished in a very different healthy way. And I was just so blown away by that, that I wanted to tell their story. And I also learned so much about PTSD. And I wanted people to know what I knew.

Keith McKeever 19:00

Yeah, it's awesome that you had him in there. Because I think you're right about David, and I've never talked to him. But, you know, just just his passion, you know, and his positive outlook of like, you know, we're just going to do what we can just do what we can to help. And I think you hit on two different things in there that are that are keys to me, what I've noticed over the years, and that is personal relationships and community, because you're right, like when you get out. It's different for everybody. But I think it's maybe for two civilians. It's almost like you leave Earth and you go to Mars. And there's let's just pretend there's a little settlement of people on Mars already. But you're on this new world. You don't really know what you're doing. Especially if you've been in for you know, 20 years. I don't know how those guys did it. I was on him. I was in for a little over five but to even after five years, like your whole way of life is just different. You know, I left I left home at 21 and got out it was a little shorter 27 I think when I got out, but it's, it's just a different world, like you left as a kid, you come back as an adult and all of a sudden, you're supposed to try and figure these things out. And things have changed and responsibilities you have now that you didn't have at 18 or 1920, with living with your parents like, like health insurance and, you know, other things, maybe you didn't even have a car when you're in I got vehicle expenses and car insurance, health insurance, life insurance, you got all these things you got to try to figure out on your own and you in some people have nobody to help them with that.

Ash Patino 20:36

Well, yeah, and that's that you bring up such a solid point, I think that is one of the issues we see here is a lot of these guys and girls leave while they're just getting out of high school. So they've never lived on their own, they've never probably paid a bill on their own. You know, and so all of a sudden, they, they are pushed into a job, and they get paid twice a month, and they know what those checks are going to be. And they can build confidence around that. But then all of a sudden, now they're 23 or 22. And they're out of the military, and they're back home. And it's not, you know, and that's not the military's responsibility. I'm not suggesting that but the military doesn't help you find a job, when you get back, it doesn't help pave the way for that they didn't teach you while you were in the military, how to go get a job, what maybe you need to do to do that. So all of a sudden, now, you're kind of like four or five years behind your peers who weren't in the military. And now you're trying to figure all of that out. And what happens if you come back and you can't find a job. So you just spent four or five years trying to help secure, you know, America and other parts of the world. And then all of a sudden, you come back and now you can't find a job and you're looking at potentially being homeless. I mean, that that is I cannot imagine, I don't think people give enough credence to what those changes are like for people. I mean, can you imagine just all of a sudden, someone takes your life away from you, and puts you in a different town and says Good luck. That's kind of a lot of times what's happening. And so you can imagine a lot of people are good, become damaged, but who don't have any of those bases in place when they get home. And I think that causes, you know, someone who might already have a mental health issue or may have now picked up having PTSD. Now those problems are become completely insurmountable, because it was already insurmountable to try to get a car now you have to try to find a job or now get on unemployment, or whatever it is you have to do. And so it just keeps compounding and compounding and compounding and that's a lot to climb out of.

Keith McKeever 22:36

Yeah, then you got the culture on top of it, just the military culture. And like, there's a mission, you're doing something, if you don't know, your supervisor, somebody knows, right, you just train the next man up kind of thing. And then yeah, you end up in this foreign world, basically. And you got no community, like there are organizations, veterans organizations out there, but spread out different focuses. And I, you know, I'm a proud member of the American Legion and VFW a lot of their mission is, obviously lobby, which is great, which is awesome for it, you know, gotta have somebody out there, you know, pushing pushing Congress for change. But you know, other than that, it's nonprofits and but you have to be, you don't have anybody to rely on to be like, hey, you know what, I need help here, here, here, who do you know, this a nonprofit, etc, whatever, to get help. Now, you just got to go to Google and try and figure it out on your own. And with no resources, nobody that you can call up and say hi, because unfortunately, you're at your last unit is they've already replaced you, that replacement is training there alongside their mission focused, which we need to be, because I don't care who you are. Everybody who served was that new guy anyway, at one point in time, you come and you fill the slot, then you leave and somebody takes yours. And the Mission Continues, but you just get dumped in this foreign world. And if you have other problems, you know, physical mental health, whatever. It it causes problems. So that's why that's where, you know, organizations like David's where you could just kind of just get people together, even if it's on a weekend, it it kind of builds a little bit of community because I think those close personal relationships and community is two of the top I'd say like five pillars of indicators of success, maybe if you have your chance you might have because the other ones, you know, top of my head or you know, like physical and mental health as well. But education and employment financial and you have your money or you might have all your money in order to have great education, might be able to get a job might be a pretty good, pretty good health physically, but if you got some mental health issues, and you have no community and you don't have any good close personal relationships, well, you're you're not fully set up for success. You got some hurdles?

Ash Patino 24:57

Yeah, well, and I think that's another really hard thing is you have, in my opinion, you know, some of the strongest, bravest people in the US who go off and fight these battles or are willing to which I think is brave in itself just the willingness and signing up for that. And then it How hard must that be for somebody who is the superhero in the family to say, I need help? Like, that must not be an easy thing to do, especially when you've done all these insane things that probably most people can't or wouldn't do. And you're capable of that. So why aren't you capable of not, you know, feeling better, you know, so I think that's, yeah, and so like, what I love about what play for your freedom, what David Lionhearts program does, is, it wasn't as intimidating as maybe saying you have to go see a therapist, and and you know, therapy is good, I love I love there. So I'm a big proponent. But, you know, sometimes that's a huge step for someone at first, but maybe I can maybe agree to play game of football, or I can at least go out and hang out with everyone while they're playing football, and I'll referee or all, you know, hand out the helmets, or whatever it is that your role is, you know, just to be like, I can do that. Because even finding a peer who you can start to talk to might not be as scary as trying to go to see a therapist at first. And maybe you can kind of pave those ways to you can see what other people have done. And maybe they've gone to get therapy, and then you can be like, okay, who'd you go to, you know, what, what was that like for you? And then it's not so scary to go and show that you, you know, you're not this perfect, strong person that you're, you're kind of like everybody else that way and you need help to, you know, it doesn't make you any less or any less brave or any less of a superhero. And I think a lot of people's eyes.

Keith McKeever 26:46

Yeah, I think people need to realize it makes you stronger to realize that you have weaknesses, and to go get help, can give you the tools that you need. But veterans, we do, we do have this ability to just connect with one another. And that's probably where things just really do work. You bring them in and you're just sitting there and you're talking football, you're just shooting the shit. Just you know, okay, well, you know, got family. Okay, cool. That's cool. You know, my kids are this old, you know, how old are your kids? And so what do you do for a job? Okay, cool. You know, they can all this small talk. And then after two or three different visits, you get to know more and more people. I think that's where those conversations might start coming up. Or somebody might say, Yeah, you know, I struggle, but I got a great counselor there at the VA, or they're just private practice, whatever. And this is how they've helped me. And then you've got the seed planted, then then you got to see planted like, oh, okay, well, maybe it's not that bad. I could go to so. But I'm curious. Since you didn't know too much about PTSD. What did you know, what was your view before starting this whole soul project?

Ash Patino 27:55

Um, I mean, I knew it was something you know, I guess I thought it was like something really scary. That may be dysregulated your emotions to the point that you had outbursts or even had suicidal thoughts and actually acted on it? Or, or maybe there was violence involved there. So that that look at it is kind of, I think, would make someone fearful of somebody with PTSD, you'd immediately kind of have a little bit of a wall up, because you'd be concerned, you know, I kind of feel like that might have been my reaction to that. If if someone had been like, Oh, my husband has PTSD or my wife, or my daughter has PTSD, I think I might have been like, oh, what what should I be worried, you know, and that's, that's really sad that that is even a consideration. And so I think that's what I really, I started to learn. I also assumed PTSD happened, like when you got home, right? I assumed you went over and then you got home and whatever, it just started right away. And that's very not true. For some people it is, but for a lot of vets, that is not how it happens. And so I thought that was really interesting that sometimes it can come into play, you know, two years, five years, 10 years down the road, what and sometimes people don't even know what's happening because they're not even equating it to potentially being in the military. And so they don't even realize they just think all of a sudden they got really depressed or can't regulate their emotions anymore when it's actually directly correlated to their time in the military. And so I think those were some of the most amazing things that I started to learn and then how those issues that someone might be dealing with could be mitigated more and what can be done so I think that it was a an amazing learning process that way and then to how to communicate with somebody who has PTSD because kind of what I learned is that you know, if you if you meet fire with fire of course it's just more fire right? But if you if you can have someone and this I'm not saying this works every time but if you have if you see someone struggling and I've actually Use this tool just with people in my life sense when I seen them get really intense, I just stay really, really calm. And I just say, hey, well, you know, what are you okay? Like what's going on in you? You know, because I can tell whatever the issue was the the incident and traffic or, you know, the fact that something wasn't cleaned properly by one of their staff members isn't really the problem, I can see that they're reacting almost over something else that's bigger, but it just allowed me to take a step back and be like, hey, actually what's happening with you right now? Because this seems like you're giving us a lot of power when maybe it doesn't deserve it. Are you doing okay? And I think just that little being able to be that for the person who has PTSD is incredibly valuable. And I think that obviously, the person with PTSD needs to be working on that. But their friends and family can also learn how maybe to handle them, if they do feel like that they're giving more power to something that doesn't deserve it gives you a way to talk to them or to open up or it gives them the space to talk to you and open up.

Keith McKeever 30:59

And it's tough for people to open up to, you know, different generations or different about it. But you know, my grandfather, served in World War Two, he didn't talk to anybody, he didn't talk to my dad, my uncle, he had a friend that would come like once a year, according to my uncle, but my dad's been gone for years. But my uncle told me this not too long ago that he had this friend that he served with, it would come once or twice a year, and they'd go out to the farm and it would just walk for hours. They just walk and talk and come back crying. But that was his like, that was his release, that was his battle buddy. Come in being there and an opportunity for them to just kind of let that stress go, just just be there and talk, discuss whatever it was they're discussing. But I think your your film has an opportunity here, like I kind of hit on earlier to speak to the parents, the siblings, that the children of or the spouses of somebody with PTSD. And it's not just yours is from the angle of military PTSD, but it can be anybody can have PTSD, but it allows them to kind of see see things because the guys you had on there really had some some great points. You know, they they really portrayed it as it is, you know, and I think if if those people that I just mentioned, can see it, then they can understand it better. Versus just, you know, it's hard for me to understand to like, how most civilians even view it. Because I think a lot of probably did, like you did, like this big scary thing. Like, yeah, just get away from this guy. And it's like, most of the time, you're fine. You know, like, PTSD is not a all day everyday kind of thing. Like you've got it. But you've got triggers, right? I mean, that's, that's a word that's just kind of thrown around randomly. But it's true. You know, some guys don't even know their triggers. Oh, you know, but once you realize what those are, you can just kind of try to avoid the situations and all of a sudden, you're just much more calm or peaceful or happy person. It's in some ways, not all the time. But But how, what are your thoughts on how this can change those perceptions for spouses, the parents, the kids and things like that? Got any feedback on that? For me?

Ash Patino 33:17

Yeah, yeah, we have gotten a lot of letters and messages, all sorts of things, I think it's just people. I think, because of the way the stories are told, and that they're all very different people, all in different branches of the military, even in different wars kind of, and their stories are all the exact same in so many ways, like it is wild. So I really think probably anyone who's been in the military or has family or friends in the military would immediately be able to relate like they pick one of the people the subject of the funding. Oh, that's my person, you know, like, I just, it's so wild, I think that like was shocking to me. I was like, when I started lining up the interviews, I couldn't believe how they all basically said the same thing. And then I would go to the next part, and they would say almost the same thing. And I think that's what really normalizes this on a huge level that and you see these guys and you know, it's it's men, military vets in the film, so I'm not discounting the women. That's because obviously just as important, I'm just speaking about the film right now, but the guys you know, are, uh, you know, they're your dad, they're your brother. You know, they're your son. And I think that you immediately kind of warm up to them, and then you hear about their struggles and it just kind of reminds you that if you see somebody in those kinds of struggles, it's these guys. You know, these guys are all like very loving and nice people who care about the world and trying to help others and are so brave to not only have to go walking through PTSD, but then be willing to share it publicly and to share a story publicly about almost committing suicide or almost hurting someone in your family. Like that's, that's heavy. I mean, that's a lot too. Be like, Hey, world, this is this is what I did. And I'm here now and I'm getting help for and I want to help other people. But like, I mean, how, how brave must you have to be to do that? So I think that's what I was really trying to do is, is normalize so people could see and that they could see it's it, how it happens in families so that they could understand how it was happening. And so I think so many people have been like, I didn't, I really didn't understand PTSD was until I saw this. And when I hear that, that makes me so happy, or are they right in and they're like, Wow, I was really scared of my husband. And we were able to watch this film together. And now we're taking action. And it was like, it's amazing to hear that because, you know, if we can just even take one notch at that number of suicides per year, which is our per day, basically, is 22 vets killed themselves every day. And I think if we can even take one notch at that, you know, take one number off of that per day, I mean, that can save a lot of lives. So I just I think people should watch because I think it can teach you a lot. Plus, I think it's interesting.

Keith McKeever 36:04

Yeah, it'd be, it'd be interesting to wake up one day and see the statistics being less than 22. You know, there's still a lot of work to go. But if I woke up tomorrow, and saw that the statistics were 21. On one hand, I'd be extremely happy. On the other hand, I'd be like, alright, well, that's step one, what's step two? You know, where are we going at this? You know, it's like, okay, it's progress. You know, you don't, you don't get to the end of the race without taking the first step. So,

Ash Patino 36:31

right, I think that's what all of this is, is it's about planting seeds and baby steps, you know, you can't fix some of the problems in a minute or a day. But if you can start mitigating what's happening and start getting people help who need help, or recognizing something in themselves, I think that's a, that's an amazing way in the right direction, because if they do get help, they'll help other people. And I think that if that continues, it compounds quickly. So I think that's what it's about, we'll never stop that suicide. I mean, obviously, that's probably nothing will ever be able to stop fully, but we can really, I think, make a notch at it. So,

Keith McKeever 37:04

you know, unfortunately, getting to zero is not is not a reasonable expectation. But, you know, if we just cut that number in half, that's a lot of lives saved. Yeah. Like, obviously, everybody wants to go to zero. I mean, we all do in our hearts and our minds. But reality is we're not ever gonna reach everybody, which sucks, especially, especially in the military community, because you can get that old philosophy of Never leave a man behind. Yeah, which, you know, unfortunately, we come back into this world, we find our own way, we find our own path. And we lose connections with those people we served with, you know, you get out now, and then your friend gets out six months to a year from now. And then you just don't really connect. And I'll be honest, I've got a lot of my veteran friends on Facebook, and I don't reach out anywhere near like I should, yeah, like we could all do a better job of reaching out, just just connecting. But in some ways, it does give us some connection, we have these platforms now where we can connect better than with the World War Two guys or Korea or Vietnam guys have when they come back, I mean, they had they had the Legion or the VFW to go get a couple of drinks and unwind with the with guys that knew and understood. But now we've got TV shows, movies, podcasts, you know, radio shows, and we've got all these different mediums that you can that you can tap into, and where you can get the attention. So that's, that's a positive thing. We can make a director?

Ash Patino 38:33

Oh, absolutely. And I think that's one thing really important for survivors is to be validated. I think one of the things that can damage the survivor the most is they finally come out and tell their story or tell you know, what, what has impacted them or what's happened to them? And someone kind of look at them, like, why, why then why are you having these problems now? Or, you know, and so I think that's one thing that's really amazing about creating a community around veterans is that if you say that to another veteran, I'm pretty sure they'll be like, Yeah, wow, yeah, I've experienced the same thing, or Yes, I understand what you're saying. And I think that that's really important because you need, you need to create environments where people can have those conversations with safe people who actually understand what they went through and who can help validate that. It's because I think through validation and more and more people speaking up, we ensure certain things won't happen again, you know, I think secrets have hurt this country. I mean, you look at stuff with the Boy Scouts or the Catholic Church hiding pedophiles names, you know, it only caused the pedophiles to get a further reach and to you know, cross more boundaries and create more victims and then the survivors and you know, we have to we have to speak up about the stuff that's happening because we do lose people through it. We do create a lot more victims. some that don't survive the ones that do, you know, survivors, which often are very broken and bent people at that point, and they don't know how to get the help that they need. So I think the two things is like, if you have a survivor in your life, it's about validating them. And then it's also about speaking up when something isn't right, so that the rest of the world knows it's happening. Because Can you imagine if like, we didn't know what PTSD was, and you were experiencing it, like your chances of suicide, I think would go up a lot. Because I think you'd be like, nobody knows what's happening to me. And nobody else has this. And I don't know what's wrong with me. And so pretty soon, you just think you're crazy. So I think the more people who speak out and tell their stories, I think the better off a lot of people will be because then you don't feel so alone. And you realize, Wow, I'm really not the only person dealing with this. It's just been a private matter up till now.

Keith McKeever 40:49

Yeah. Because it's not a comparison of like, my problems are worse than yours. Like, there, there are obviously problems and symptoms, you know, things that people do that are worse than others. But PTSD is PTSD. And you need to go get the help. You know, and even getting the help is difficult sometimes, because I've seen a couple of different counselors, and two of them have been have been great. One of them, I was like, you know, I gotta find a different guy, like this guy. Just, I don't know, personality, there's just something off. Like, it just wasn't a connection. The first person I ever talked to, she gave me a lot of the tools I still used today. And then then I should go into another job, then I went to this guy at this is all through the VA will give their names or anything like that. But so I saw him and I was like, yeah, just wasn't a good connection. So I went and I saw somebody else there. And her and I hit it off, you know, because it wasn't so much about asking me. I don't know, too many questions. It was just having conversations. Her thing was more like, like the first one of well, how is that tool working for you? Like, let's find you the tools to deal with this stuff other than me just sitting there rambling on and on, about my thoughts, or my day or my week? Or since last time I was there. Like, it's like, okay, what problems if you had, and what tools did you use to address those did it work? Do you know, you know, then sometimes they go back to their bag of tricks and come up with something else. And, you know, it's just about finding that right person. And I'll tell you what, none of the three that I've that I've been, that I've seen are veterans. But I've heard a lot of other guys say that having a mental health professional that is a veteran themselves, has been a huge impact over one that's not absolutely. Guys, ladies out there that are listening, like, go find that person telling you even if you got to go once or twice a year, go get some help, go talk to them. Whatever you struggle with, try figure out what those triggers are and the things that you're doing, figure them out, once you do, you'll, you'll have a better understanding of how you can address those and not make them as bad for you, your loved ones, whatever. But I'm gonna lie, ripping the band aid off sucks. You know, it's your, you rip it off, rip those blinders off. And all of a sudden, you're in a self discovery mode. Like you have to be really reflective of who you are, what you do, and how you do it. And it sucks, it probably makes it 10 times worse, but don't get to the pain. You don't get to the rewards until you go through the pain. So yeah, unfortunately, it's it's difficult, but, you know, opening up can do that too. Just being open, you know. And so what kind of difficulties you have any difficulties with these guys opening up and telling their stories,

Ash Patino 43:42

I was so surprised at how much they were willing to share. And you know, Sergio, I think, one of the main subjects in the film, I feel like from an outsider perspective, even though I don't feel like he should have felt this way because there's no reason to feel this way. But I think he felt a lot of shame and guilt over his suicide. The night he almost committed suicide and we didn't actually talk ahead of time about if we were going to talk about that on camera. And, you know, that was a lesson for me to to like make sure I kind of paved the way a little bit better, you know, recognizing that what to me is just a topic on a film so that we can show people something is actually potentially the worst day of his life. And so I was kind of sitting there and we hit this point and it's actually in the film where I'm you know, asking him Are you okay talking about this? And he he took out you know, he took a minute obviously we would have cut it out if he had said he wasn't but he just took him in and then he just it's almost like you're in the room with him the day he almost committed suicide. It's that well told and spoken about and to have you know, Have them be that open or even one of the guys talks about, you know, his PTSD, then mixed with addiction got so bad at one point he didn't know his daughter's teeth had come in, because she was a baby and like to share that, because that must feel really shameful to share. And it's not for an audience to listen to. It's just painful. And you know, you want that person to seek help, but like to be able to share those things that I'm sure they feel very shameful about must be, must take every bit of energy and bravery that they have. So I think it's it was incredible. I mean, it really, there was no pushing. They all very, very much wanted people to know what they'd experienced so that they could help other veterans like that really was, I think, their mode of on everything. And I think it shows through really clearly in the film.

Keith McKeever 45:44

Well, it certainly makes it a little easier to share your share your story, I mean, I shared a little bit of mine here, and I've shared it bits and pieces, throughout all, probably almost every episode I've had, but because I was really private person before I started doing this podcast and realized, well, if I'm going to have if I'm going to converse with somebody else, and talk about these tough issues, like I got to be open about myself too. You know, we all need to be very open about those things. And that's tough, but when you know, in the back of your mind, you're doing it for the right reason. Yet, just like you in this film, and all your films you do in this podcast, you never know the face and the names of all the people that consume that content, you just never will, you know, you might get a story here. And you might know of a few people, right? Hopefully, your friends and family, people close to you. But for the most part, you know that most of those people that are ever going to consume it, and that media is out there forever. And so even this episode with us talking about this film, maybe it's this episode, maybe they go watch the film, maybe it's six months from now, maybe it's six years from now. You never know when it's going to help somebody. And that's the whole reason I do this podcast is to inspire or educate and get my brothers and sisters out there to make some change. So positive change, go. So whatever it is you need to do. There's one he's out there, because there's there's other people that are going through it. You know, I've had people on talking about military, sexual trauma and other tough, tough topics. By the way, that might be a good one for you to do a film on.

Ash Patino 47:21

I actually awesome recently, I've been considering that. Because that's very, I had no idea about that what that was like, either that's insane numbers on that.

Keith McKeever 47:30

Yeah, it's it's, it's one of those things that's talked not talked about a lot, because a lot of female veterans to remember the exact amount I want to say the total is, I could be wrong on this. Somebody might call me out on it. But about 17% I think something like that total of veterans are female. And so when you got that much of a minority number, and you have something that culturally people just brushed under the table, and women are just afraid to report it. You know, it's it's, yeah, it's it's a problem. And I'll be honest, a lot of other veteran podcasters don't talk about it either. And I've already had a couple guests on to talk about it. And I'm more than willing to talk about it more in the future. Because something's got to change. We can't just let the ladies that are serving just keep suffering in silence. I feel like there's no, there's no hope for change. So I got no, I got no problem pushing some buttons and challenging some people. Yeah. But you could definitely have an opportunity on your end to do some do film on that. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Ash Patino 48:34

Now? Oh, yeah, it is. It's building there. And there was a film and I can't think of a name right now. I just seen it at the Veterans Film Festival, which the PTSD was filmed. And also I'll send you the name of it. Maybe you can post it if you want. But it's beautifully done. And it's telling it's the whole film isn't about the sexual trauma, but it goes into it quite a bit. And it was one of the things I was my jaw was on the floor because I was like, Well, I didn't have any idea that so many of the women who are in our military had experienced this and how alone that they felt during it or how they felt coerced into going along with it. And so it's really powerful they'll send you the name but I have thought about that because I do feel like people don't know about it. I had no idea until I saw their film so

Keith McKeever 49:21

Yep, definitely not talked about as much so but any any last thoughts or anything else you will say about the film? Any interesting stuff that happened? No, no nothing. Yeah, no, it's a great film. Once again for the listeners the viewers got it at the bottom of screen but it's PTSD the walking wounded snail on Amazon, YouTube Apple TV and some other platforms I highly suggest you check it out. I'll try to remember the exact links pretty an hour and a half something like that about right

Ash Patino 49:50

oh yeah, like like a 90 or 103 minutes or something? Yeah.

Keith McKeever 49:57

So about about the same as a as refillable documentaries and ballparks. So it's not a super long thing. But I highly suggest you go out there you check it out you listen to, and share it with your loved ones for crying out loud. You know, watch it with your spouse, watch it with your kids. If they're old enough, I would. I would definitely caution that don't. That maybe teenager, teenage years kids are over. You might not want to go too young on that, for sure. But yeah, share with those people get out there and share that film, because it could, it could definitely save a lot of lives, like no doubt about it. And then, you know, go out there and check out the play for your freedom.org. I know, I'm curious to know more more about that. I'm gonna have to reach out to David, see if we can get him on the podcast here. Talk about what he's,

Ash Patino 50:43

oh, my God, come on in a heartbeat. I can definitely put you by slinky. Oh, absolutely.

Keith McKeever 50:47

That would be awesome. Yeah, that I'd love to hear more from him about, you know, the impact that he's seen, you know, hands on with the guys. Awesome, because he shared some stuff in there. At one point about going up to the hospital and visiting some guys. And they were just like, shocked that anybody would even come visit. Because they had that fear of like, oh, everybody's just afraid of me. So it's like, yeah, you know, it's, it's kind of easy to forget people when they're kind of in the hospital period, you know, but like, nobody wants to go to the mental ward. Oh, yeah. Kind of a scary place to step foot into. So good for him for getting up there to do that. So once again, Ash, I appreciate it. Keep going out there making some good films. You got it. You got a few of them that you made you actually ironically, for listeners, you actually made one here in the town I live in about a kid that was disappeared and turned out unfortunately, he was killed. But when we hooked up on Facebook, I was like, Well, this is weird. We got a couple of mutual friends. I was like, I don't know, you don't even live anywhere near Central Illinois. But I'm like I was puzzled. I'm like, I don't I don't know where these mutual friends came from. Just people you met. Going through town here kind of collecting your story, I guess. But like, sometimes

Ash Patino 52:04

the town you live in only has a population of

Keith McKeever 52:06

like 30,000 30,000 people. It's not not a big area. And then two very different subjects,

Ash Patino 52:11

obviously one about a boy who had been murdered and then yours about military. So it's very funny that they're so very divert and ended up.

Keith McKeever 52:22

Absolutely, absolutely. Once again, I appreciate ash, if anybody wants to reach out to you, is there any way they can connect with you or other films are?

Ash Patino 52:31

Yeah, find me I'm you can find me on Facebook friend request me send me a message. If you're worried, I'm not going to say yes to your friend request. Just because if I can't find a connection, sometimes I don't. But yeah, just find me on Facebook. Or you can always email me it's Ashland, a sh l, a, n d, the number 50 seven@gmail.com. If you have just any thoughts or want to share any stories or anything like that, we we, you know, try to get back to everybody. So if you write a small at least try to get back or if somebody we've had a bunch of communities reached out recently about wanting to showcase the film to their vets or to their medical students. So if there was somebody who wanted to be able to see the film, we can potentially pave that way for you. We really just want the content out there. So it's not we're not asking for money on that. We're just wanting people to see this. So we can help people get it if they if they want to show it to their group. So

Keith McKeever 53:21

that's interesting. Yeah. Have you thought about reaching out to any, you know, veteran service organizations to have like filming in there? We thought about that.

Ash Patino 53:30

Yeah, we have a little bit. And we've had a lot of success with a couple of groups that we've reached out to so far. So it's just a matter of, you know, trying to reach out to each one. Because it's sometimes all spread out and stuff like that. So we always encourage everyone to tell other people about it, because, you know, we're happy to, if they can get into a hospital or a vet organization or something so that they can see it and learn from it. We're happy to try to get it to them so

Keith McKeever 53:55

well that they can Yeah, and I mean, that's that's an angle I never thought about either, you know, medical professionals thinking about it, because, you know, those in that arena may not have that experience specifically with that. So absolutely. We have folks if you if you got an idea, reach out and if you can't get ahold of her, let me know what we're connected. We'll get the message pass through so alright ash, I appreciate it. It take it easy.

Ash Patino 54:16

Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai