The Money Doctor on Financial Freedom

Air Force veteran Ann James had a relationship with money very similar to many young troops.  After the birth of her daughter her attitude on money and wealth changed which set her on the path of financial education and eventual financial freedom.  She has taken this knowledge and founded the Freedom Battle Buddies of color podcast teaching financial information to young women of color.  She comes on the show to discuss her past with money and tips and tricks for the military and veteran community to get them on the same path! 

Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:

www.drannjames.com

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/freedom-battle-buddies-of-color/id1550413131

Transcript from Episode 35 with Dr. Ann James:

Keith McKeever 0:01

Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever.

Welcome back battle buddies. I've got another battle buddy with us here, doctor and James, we go ahead and throw her banner up there because she's She really is a battle buddy. She has her own podcast freedom battle buddies of color. It's almost like a sister about podcast. We talked about that. Right? They were and we're both Air Force veterans, you know. So there's weird connections all over the place. It's a small world. Doctor, and James, welcome to the show was pleasure to have you on.

Dr. Ann James 0:34

Oh, Keith, thank you so much, man for having me here. Appreciate it.

Keith McKeever 0:37

Yeah, no problem. It's always great to talk to another podcaster. Because you kind of know, like, what to expect and personality and all that stuff. So I'm always excited interview another podcaster. And we're going to talk about financial stuff, because that is your arena, financial stuff. And like I was just telling you a couple minutes ago, kind of heads up on some of the questions. I had this epiphany. I'm like, who really needs this financial advice? Well, we probably all need financial advice to some degree. But I felt like this is a great episode to pull back the curtain a little bit for those 18 to 25 year olds, or those who maybe just got out of the military, young never had to financial education or literacy. Because let's face it, we all come from different backgrounds, we all have different levels of understanding of how the financial world works. So I figured let's keep it to the basics. And let's speak to those people who, who could probably need to start with step one. Because you don't finish the race without first step. So before we get into that, introduce yourself, what is your story? How did and James become an airman? And how did she become a doctor?

Dr. Ann James 1:40

Wow, wow, where do I begin? Right? Nowadays keep that different appreciate you invited me into the show. Like he said, Yeah, battle buddies, you know, near and dear to both of us. So yeah, I'm Dr. And J's from the CEO of financial freedom battle buddies. And that's basically a financial education company where I work with women veterans, to help them, you know, renew their mindset around money, to gain control over their behavior, and to reclaim confidence in their ability to manage their money, so that they can live life freely. You know, it all started for me. I'm a military brat. My dad was in my stepfather. I should say, I was in the army. So I knew that I wasn't going to do army. But was my, my oldest brother went to the Air Force. I went to visit him one summer, and I just liked, like, everything that I saw, you know, and stuff like that. So as a way for me to get money for college and a way to travel. I chose to join the Air Force straight out of high school. So yeah, like he said, Well, I'm wanting to know those youngins that didn't know any better. First time away from home, you know, ended up being stationed overseas and I I went crazy. You know how it is when you first joined the military? You know, you have that stability of the paycheck, right? You know, the first thing to 15 You know, that you're going to get paid for the military provided everything, pretty much everything for me, right, so I'm talking about living in a dorm, so I had a place to live. Of course, our uniforms, I had pretty much what to wear, even food, the meal car, right going to the dining hall to eat food, they provided a lot of our necessities in life. So the money that I did earn, I spent it the way that I love to do at the time, which was shopping and traveling, and stuff like that. So I went, I would say crazy. I really I just I really enjoyed life. You know, I enjoyed myself, that type of stuff, until not to say until I have my daughter, but you know, visually and with a male military, you know, I found myself falling in lust, I should say. And shortly after that I became pregnant. And shortly after that we got married and got divorced. So, whirlwind life sort of speak, but it wasn't until you know, one day Keith I was in a doctor's office. I had taken my daughter her name is Kayla. And she was about I don't know, two or three years around that time. And I noticed she wasn't speaking like, quote unquote, normal kids or, you know, kids her age to be doing right. It was at that appointment that my life forever changed is that the doctor told me and I can hear his words, but I just saw his mouth moving but it was like what what he told me she was developmentally delayed, right. And I didn't even know what that meant. You know, this is back in the day. I'm not gonna date myself, right? But this is back in the day, where he says she was developmentally delayed, but what is now known as autism, my daughter is autistic. So it was at that moment that I knew that, you know, my life had to change. You know, my mother always told me that you have to be in a position to take care of your children no matter what. And I knew the way that I was living but all this All the credit card debt. I mean, it was so bad Keith, I had a car that I cannot drive because it was a stiction. Okay. And I was, I was making payments on it, right. So when me and my, you know, boyfriend and ex husband broke up and stuff, my supervisor had to teach me how to drive this car. And I was, right. So just crazy foolishness, I knew that my life wasn't I wasn't in a position to take care of my daughter, who now you know, was diagnosed with special needs. And I didn't know what that meant, you know, I'm like, what, what does that mean? Does that mean she's gonna live with me forever, you know, type of stuff. So I knew that I had to get my life in order, I find that just my life for real my finances, I didn't want my mistakes with money to hamper my daughter's future, you know, going forward. So I self educated myself, you know, back in the day, it was Dave Ramsey at the bass chaplain, you know, the Financial Peace University, that type stuff. So I took that course drunk the Kool Aid, and I just really followed his, you know, steps, you know, just into my own lifestyle, to really help me get on the road to what my definition of financial freedom, I was able to, you know, pay off that car and eventually be able to pay off, you know, my home outright, over $300,000 worth it within three years. So you know, how I became doctor and along the way is once I transition, after 20 years of service, I forgot to mention that I went in and listed, but about the halfway part, I do what they say I crossed over to the dark side. And I earned my

I know, right, I earned my commission from dead 775, University of South Carolina and I go game cots ROTC. And then I became a financial officer, but don't know, after doing all that 21 years of service, I was fortunate to retire, I was ready to return the position I had planned and prepared myself. And once I transition, I still had my GI Bill, you know, back in the day before Montgomery, I mean, before the post 911 I had the Montgomery GI Bill. And that's why I decided to just go back to school and or my doctor because already had my masters. And that's how I became a doctor. And now

Keith McKeever 7:23

that's a couple more years. My advice, I just got my bachelor's degree. What about your masters? I'm like, oh, man, I'm so burned out right now a

Dr. Ann James 7:36

master's is actually easier than a bachelor's?

Keith McKeever 7:40

Is it? Oh, come on, tell me. It is you only have to say,

Dr. Ann James 7:43

you know, it depends on what school I can additional 10 classes, you know, saying? So

Keith McKeever 7:49

yeah, we'll look into a few different programs, but I don't know, I I need a mental break for a little while, at least a year or something like that. I didn't mind you know, full time for the last three years using my Mundo GI bill before it expired. And yeah, it was it was kind of brutal, you know, especially half of it during the pandemic, you know, online classes. I was actually taking calculus when the pandemic hit, and I'm not gonna lie, I was not doing that great. In class with the calculus and in the pandemic hit. We went home for for, for spring break. And they extended a week and we came back and it's like, all it's all online, all of a sudden to help lab is gone. All the student tutors are gone. There's no extra resources. And I'm sitting there like, Oh, crap. Yeah. I definitely don't know what's going on now. And I passed, I have no idea how but I passed. And it was brutal. And I went took statistics the next semester. Oh, man, it was brutal. But you know what, it makes you stronger. Right? You know, he come out. And you look back, you're like, oh, it's kind of crazy to do that as an adult to go back to school and do all that, but it's an accomplishment. But yeah,

Dr. Ann James 9:06

we have our own reasons, right. You know, absolutely. children, young children. So you know, to set that example, you know, so I definitely get it

Keith McKeever 9:13

that you got to do and you're speaking to kids, you know, that's a that is a heck of a motivator, you know, especially in your situation to to get this diagnosis for your daughter and and to just be like, Okay, what is what is life like look like now? Right? You know? I don't say, leave with my kids. You can't predict the future. You can't sit there and be like, well, this is gonna happen or that's going to happen, but you do, like get this idea in your mind. You got kids, you know, you're expecting them to hit certain milestones and do certain things. And then when you get something like that, it's like, well, what does that picture look like? Like a niece and a nephew on the spectrum? And, you know, we don't even know what that's gonna look like for my sister. You know, it's one or both. I'm gonna have to live with them a home who knows? Yeah, you know, they both have totally different issues on the spectrum. You know, but they're still kids and you still love them. And they still get. That's right. And that's, that's right. That's clear. There. So. But speaking of what, what changed, like, so that that's what changed for you. So what was your, like, your first step that you did? Was it was a Dave Ramsey? Was it something else?

Dr. Ann James 10:28

Yeah, you know, I would say the first tactical tactical step, of course, we, you know, Dave Ramsey says, he has these seven baby steps, you know, and that's nothing of I guess, I don't know, if it was, me being in the military, I just like the structure to this to this and do that, right. But as I went along, you know, doing those steps, I realized that some things had, I had to change first I kind of had this tapas, take a step back, excuse me, and be like, wait a minute, because I still finding myself with those bad habits, right, like charging and be like, Oh, it's just a little bit of debt or whatever have you. So I had to really dig down deep and be like, Okay, what's going on here, and by you know, once again, self educating myself, it really starts in your mind, you know, you have to have a made up mind before, you know, you can do these steps. But if you really don't deal with the root of the problem, like, you know, some of the things I heard, while I was growing up, you know, that it still had an effect on me as an adult, you know, and not dealing with those things, you know, made it manifests themselves in the way that I spent money and stuff like that. So I had to deal with some other things, before the tactical steps of you know, how to get out of debt, how to budget really to hold in my life, so that I can start my journey to financial freedom. So yeah,

Keith McKeever 11:49

I've kind of followed Dave Ramsey for a few years, because personal finance, I think I told you before, it's kind of one of the things i i enjoy, I wouldn't say I know a lot about definitely no expert. I've kind of followed him for a few years, and I can't remember exactly what order. Those things are. But it makes sense. But it doesn't necessarily make sense for everybody is I felt the same way too. Like I think, personally, first thing you should do is a budget, you should know exactly how much money you make. And you should know exactly what all of your bills are and when they're due, and you should have them on some sort of a timeline or laid out so you can look at it and know where you're at before you could figure out trying to think of what the first thing is, like the snowball rider? Was it paying the smallest ones first and and building up to the big ones I think is what he what he teaches. I think it's one of his first steps or something. But

Dr. Ann James 12:39

yeah, that's like his third step. His first step is building an emergency emergency, which is $1,000, which I totally agree with, because you just never know, when an emergency has been our true emergency. Not something that Oh, I forgot. But a true emergency. You know, like if we're, I don't know, stationed overseas somewhere, we need to get a plane ticket home, you know, instead of charging, and we might have, you know, the money in our account to cover it. So you have a true emergency $1,000. And then you go into the baby steps with the debt, you know, that type stuff, but you're absolutely right. Meaning that, you know, you have to have a budget to know your starting position. You know, that type stuff. But yes, really? Yeah, it's personal.

Keith McKeever 13:24

Yeah, it's definitely better to have 1000 or $2,000 in emergency fund, rather than putting that on a on a credit card. Right? Because if you can find a credit card under 15% interest, you're hitting the lottery, probably, I think most of them like 20 to 25% interest. And I don't think a lot of young people probably realize that, that how credit works in I see the incentives all the time. I get him here at my house. I'm sure you'd everybody else does. I'll open up this credit card. It's only 22% interest. Yeah, but we're gonna give you a ton of miles for this or miles for that. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing because it may work for some people, right? If you're financially sound enough to be like, Okay, I'll get it. I'll use it I'll pay it off and I'll utilize the benefits that's not a problem. Right problem is when you don't have the the willpower to say no, or you don't have the budget in place to be able to pay that off in time. You know, I once bought a was it a washer dryer? Gosh, I can't remember. It was a Sears actually might have been two at the same time. Anyway, it was probably $1,200 Put it on a store credit card. I think it was three and a half years to pay it off and I think I paid over $2,000 for it. Yeah, no, no, you look back you're like did I need to wash your dryer? Yeah. I was still serving at that time to like I needed to clean my uniforms like there was, you gotta gotta have them. But yes, like you look back on it like, wow. It definitely would have been better to have the cash to pay for that. Yeah, I could have used that extra $802,000 on something else. Yeah, no. Utilities, whatever. So,

Dr. Ann James 15:19

so move it's just been like he says smart and you know that making better informed decisions, right? If you need something, there's a difference your need versus a want, right. So you needed a washer and dryer. Now if you you know, could have done some research, like I said, the the store credit cards are the worst as far as interest rate, you know, saying so that, you know, especially when he's talking about the younger troops and stuff, that's how they get you. I know how they got me in the mall, you want to open up this? I think that was my first credit card was no when I was in from the mall, historical learners back in the day. But as you know, it's like, okay, if you open this up, you get an additional 30% off, you know, type stuff and like, oh, okay, I can save money. And this is on sale. You know, that type of stuff. I didn't know nothing about no interest rate, you know, I just knew I was getting some a discount on something that was already on sale. So it's just really about educating yourself and making those informed decisions.

Keith McKeever 16:15

Yes. And I mean, it goes beyond that to goes to your credit score, and you open up that new line. Now your yesterday is shorter. And if people will open up a credit card, and I have a $2,000 balance, why did my score go down? 50 points? Well, it's because you took your length of history from five years down to two because you just open up a new card. There you go. Like, it's, that's what I opened me cuz I'm in real estate. And the more I learned about credit, it's like, Man, this is it's a game. It's like it's a game. It's a system it is rigged against you It's like going to the casino in some ways.

Dr. Ann James 16:52

It's my learn to play the game.

Keith McKeever 16:54

Exactly. You got to know the rules of the game, right? You can't can't win a monopoly if you don't know the rules of the game.

Dr. Ann James 17:03

Playing Game.

Keith McKeever 17:05

But that's what it is. You know, that's where financial literacy comes in is like no, and understate like, once again, to mindset. Once you have that mindset of this is a game. They're kind of out to get me. How do I mitigate my my chances of failure, and you get tied in the military of like, we don't do operations, no operations happen to military without planning, hopefully proper planning, but you don't do anything without SOPs, plans, operations, orders all that stuff. Like you, you get as much of a picture of what you're trying to do. Before you go do it. Yeah, you have a team, you know, and I think that's where, you know, people, you need to look at financial stuff, that same way of like, get the education, get the information, listen to the experts. And now you're informed. And you can take action in the form of action versus I mean, I see it all the time in my business people that are working on my credit. And then they start explaining stuff they do. And it's like, Do you realize that it's okay to not use your credit card, like pay your credit cards off and not use them? That's fine. You could use them to buy gas every week, and pay it off. That would help. But if you don't want to use them, that's fine. But the last thing you should do is shut the accounts off. Yeah, you're not to hear stuff like that. And I'm like, Who is counseling you? Yeah. And once again, it goes back to the history, your your, your credit history, like the length of the file, it's like, oh, man, who was telling people this stuff like, yeah, out there,

Dr. Ann James 18:41

there is, you know, and that and that's the thing, like he said earlier, it's not cookie cutter, you know, I like to say money as personal. It's called Personal Finance for a reason. Right? So my reason is different from keys. Reason is different from this person's reason. So whatever that reason is, or whatever your y is, that's driving you. That's what you tend to rely on when you make hopefully, your own financial decisions. So

Keith McKeever 19:08

yeah, and it's gonna vary by by where you're at to, you know, if you're gonna have to put more money into your, your food budget if you live in Alaska, because evidently, the prices are ridiculous. They're from what I hear. If you live in California, you're probably gonna have to put more in housing. Exactly. I'm in Illinois, you could buy a house for 200,000 here, it'll cost you a million in California blows my mind. That's how that works. But yeah, it's variable, you know, so you have to know where you're at what you're doing, what your goals are, to protect these things out. So Exactly. Is is important to do that kind of stuff. So exactly. But we keep kind of come back to mindset is one of the first things budget and mindset so how should somebody who's mindset be shifted? Or how should they look at shifting their mindset in the right direction?

Dr. Ann James 19:59

Yeah, Whoo, that's that's a good one? That's a good question. I always like to tell my clients, one of the ways that they can change their mindset is really determining where they're at, right? Where are their current mindset? Do you have a mindset of scarcity? Like you never have enough? You're always scrounging around for stuff? Or do you have an abundance mindset? You know, meaning that, hey, I know that there's enough out there for everybody. You know, I'm saying so I believe that when you have an abundance mindset, you'll attract that, versus if you have a scarcity mindset, you're going to attract that as well. I'm here to tell you, I had a scarcity mindset for the longest. Why? Because, like I said, when you're single, and you have a child, and now you got a child with special needs, I was like, holding on tight to money, it was like, don't ask me for that. I got it, you know, I can I can that cost too much. You know, let me use my coupons. You know, that type stuff, I was really tight with money. But as things started changing for me, and as I learned about mindset, and having an abundance mindset, I was able to start, you know, releasing things and opening up my hands to know that to come back to me, so I don't have to be, you know, so tight with money. So I would definitely say try to recognize where you're at in regards to, you know, what type of mindset you have. Another one I like to talk to my clients about Keith is what I call your money talk, right? It goes back to the mindset, but what do you say about money? Right? Do you always say, I'm always gonna have debt, I'm always gonna have a car payment, okay? You say what you have, right? Versus if you flip that conversation, and start saying things, as you know, you know, oh, I'm never gonna have debt again, I'm gonna pay cash for a car, I don't have a mortgage, you know, I'm gonna lend money instead of borrowed, you know, type stuff. So it's just like, What are you saying, you have to really watch the words that are coming out of your mouth. About money, because if you're constantly saying negative stuff, negative stuff, negative stuff, then that's what you're going to see in your life. So you have to just really watch your words, when it comes, you know, comes to what you're saying about money, and also who you're hanging around with. Right? Like, don't hang around with timbral people, because you might be number 11. Okay. So it's like, you have to hang around with like minded people money. Sometimes it's already seen as a taboo, you know, to talk about, oh, we don't talk about that in public, you know, that type stuff. But now you have to be willing to openly talk about money. And just surround yourself with people you want to emulate. You know, I remember a friend of mine telling me, like, when she found out that I was, you know, debt free, she's like, wow, you're the first person that I know, is that free. And this person, she's, she makes more money than I do. She has two kids. It has all kinds of debt. But by her looking at me and us hanging around each other, it became, if she can do it, I can do it till I make more money in a hurry. You know, that's I saw. So just, you know, all of those type things, really comes into play to help you improve your mindset. But you have to first be aware of where your mindset even is, you know, what limiting beliefs do you have in your life surrounding money? And what actions can you take to turn those things around to the positive? So, yeah,

Keith McKeever 23:49

I 100% agree. And that's, that's a that's a really deep question for people to answer.

Dr. Ann James 23:54

It is what it boils down to what's important, you know, and it's a book buzzword, but what's your why? You know, what is your priority in life, you know, and everything that I did back in the day leading up to financial freedom, and everything I continue to do, is because of my daughter, that is what drives me and knowing that I'm not going to make, you know, the same mistakes that I made when I was in my teens and 18. Just just joining the military. That's why I always anytime that I have a chance to talk to the younger military people I do, because I feel like I'm talking to myself, you know, what advice would I give myself? So, um, you know, is, yeah, if it's hard to grasp, just, you know, take a little piece of it and run with it.

Keith McKeever 24:43

Yeah, I think almost all of us feel like we should just reach out and grab those young troops by the collar and be like, listen here. Yeah, yeah. I did. Yeah,

Dr. Ann James 24:57

don't make the same stupid mistake. I mean, If it's just one thing, right, if they just take one thing I remember one of my supervisor back in the day, man, I mean, he was like dating myself when Savings Bonds was the, you know, the big go to series he savings bonds, I mean are better? Yeah, here's something they can probably relate to the a lot, right? Setting up an allotment where you have money going straight into the savings account, you don't even hit your account. Right? So that's why I tell people okay, you're about to get promoted. One January is right around the corner, you're gonna you know, cost of living allowance for veterans or say, if you're going to get promoted or whatever have you that increase in income, you're used to living without it. So why don't you just take finite difference, set up an allotment or put it to your you know, savings account and save it or use it to throw throw it towards debt, don't increase your way of living just because you have more income? You continue to live as you already are. That's what did it for me. Like I said, I was enlisted. And I reached the rank of e6 before I switched off. But once I became a lieutenant, and a captain, I still lived off as if I was an e6. You know, I'm saying, oh, yeah, that's what I was used to, you know, everything else was gravy. Yeah. bought me a lieutenant won't do that I can afford, you know, that type stuff. But you know, is yeah, you know, you just have to what's important to you, and what's going to drive you for the long haul. And just make sure you enjoy yourself along the way.

Keith McKeever 26:31

You can have materialistic things, and it's still not going to like crazy debt. I had a client one that relocated to this area, husband, wife had great jobs, great jobs. They bought a house on one of their salaries. Just one, because they were they had a bunch of kids. But I think they also felt like, hey, if they have more kids, she may be out of work for a little while, she may decide not to go back to work. And they had the financial forethought to think let's buy on one income. And that way if she is working to make an extra money, fine, it's great retirement account, college account, whatever, whatever they do with it. I don't know. But it blew my mind. I had never that's the only client I've ever had that. I'm aware of that. Done that. That's like look, nope, we don't even want to consider the other person's income. Just one person's income. That's it. Yeah.

Dr. Ann James 27:31

I mean, talk about living below your means that's exactly the way to do it.

Keith McKeever 27:36

And they were they had enough means to buy a very nice comfortable house for themselves right here in this area. But you're not see I see all kinds of people, you know, getting house for buying a house at the top of their budget. Maybe it's not necessarily the house, maybe it's the the $100,000 SUV, which still blows my mind. They're able to sleep in and go to the bathroom. And I think that is a house. That's very quickly approaching RV value. But you know, but I see it all the time of people just get too much house too much car too much for what you really need. Like I was telling you, I'm not a car person. All I need is four wheels at run. And something that's reliable. It's not loud. Yeah. My phone calls on Bluetooth that I bought a rumbling noises or something, you know, and I said that for years, and I upgraded to a to a Ford Fusion Hybrid. I love my car. It's nice. It was like a special treat. But it was it took a lot of you know, looking at the budget and be like, Oh, well, we can do this. Because I'll be honest, I'm very cheap person. Like, the scarcity mindset? I think it has to be like, do I need this? Or is there another alternative that is cheaper? That gets the job done?

Dr. Ann James 28:52

Absolutely.

Keith McKeever 28:53

Like, do you need the $75,000 car? Or does the $20,000 car that's also a year tool. Also fit your needs? Does it hold five people and get you from point A to point B? Because both of them do you know? Yeah. If you got the money to pay for the $75,000 car, by all means have at it have? Exactly the stretch, maybe should reevaluate your you know, your priorities. You know, because I think it all comes to a to a goal, you know, and you hit on it with your daughter, like you look at the future and was like, I don't know what I'm going to need, but I need to change things. So that I have the financial means to take care of whatever comes next. Yeah, you know, I know I look at my future and I say, I want to do this X, XY and Z, you know, and I know that by doing that, I'm gonna you know, I can't sell my house and move into a house that's twice as expensive. Like that doesn't make any sense. My house was perfectly fine. I'd like it to stall garage. The frickin world. Right? I just got my car in the garage this winter, which is a bonus because it's actually snowing right now. Oh, it's not pleasant, but I'm not too happy about but it is what it is, um, in Illinois, but, you know, it's it's about sacrifices. It's about vision mindset, like all these different things. So, yeah, yeah, that's, that's how you get to the financial freedom. So what does what does that look like financial freedom to you, you know, cuz I guess should be a goal of everybody's I know it's a goal of mine.

Dr. Ann James 30:25

Yeah, you know, that's a great point, everybody's definition of it is different, you know, and it's so funny. That's like one of my leading questions on my podcast is like, what is freedom to you, but specifically financial freedom to me, is the ability ability or having a mindset to do whatever I want, when I want without ever worrying about money. You know, so and whatever that is, you know, that I love to travel, you know, that's what I tell people, you can't tell people how to spend their money, why some people might want to spend on on cars might want to spend in our houses. I like similar to yourself, I'm in a real estate. So I have several, you know, rental properties and stuff like that. But I like to spend my money on experiences, you know, traveling, and stuff like that, and being able to, you know, do that freely all inclusively in first class, you know, that's what I do. But you know, Sam, but that's financial freedom. To me. And, you know, I just want to say that don't get it twisted, just because you see the doctor in front of my main, why I'm not a medical doctor. I'm a Doctor of Education. And as I mentioned, I started out as an E one. Right? So money didn't I wasn't born with money. You know, that type of stuff. There's levels to this as they would say. So, you know, it just really depends on the person. But for me, yeah, it's just being able to do what I want when I want. Not wanting to work again, when I retired from the military, I knew that I didn't not want to go back to anybody's job. Nobody told me what to do. So I knew I was going to be my own boss, right. And it's just a lovely thing, to be able to do what you love to do on your own terms and stuff like that. So financial freedom, I believe is a journey, right? It's not someplace that you it's not a destination. Oh, I'm here. Okay, we can stop now. I've arrived. No, this is something. Right? It's a journey. So

Keith McKeever 32:32

I got a hold up. Success is a journey, not a destination.

Dr. Ann James 32:40

Exactly. That's it. It's a journey, not a dozen, because you're constantly learning, you're constantly adjusting. But the biggest thing is to make sure that you enjoy your life along the way. You know, we've talked about making sacrifices and what's important. Yes, that's part of it. But if you're not enjoying life, celebrating those wins, what difference does it make, right? So I just say sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.

Keith McKeever 33:09

No doubt about a life is gonna give you some ups and downs. Like, just in terms of things you're not ready for. So exactly. You gotta you gotta have a plan. Got a, all you can do is sit back and enjoy the ride. It's like being on a roller coaster. Nothing about that, turn that loop that's coming up in front of you. If you're on you're strapped in,

Dr. Ann James 33:28

brace yourself.

Keith McKeever 33:32

It's going you very prepared. You got about a half a second to blink before it's here. But exactly. Yeah, that's a that's, that's awesome. Great advice.

Dr. Ann James 33:41

Starts with a plan, like you said, a mindset and then a plan and then take an action, you know, nothing's gonna be perfect is progress progress over perfection. So

Keith McKeever 33:51

absolutely. And the thing people need to realize is that anybody can do this. You just have to have the right mindset. And you have to take the first step, budget, figure out where you're at. And if you want to follow Dave Ramsey, or if you want to follow somebody else's plan, whatever, find a plan and stick to it, work towards it. As long as you got the right mindset. I think you're on the on the right path.

Dr. Ann James 34:14

I totally agree. There's so many things like he said, You can Google it. This isn't rocket science. When I work with clients, I tell them you know, this isn't something that I've pulled out of the sky, you know, is based off of my experiences, you know, that I created to fit my lifestyle, therefore, I'm teaching it to others, but yet you can Google a budget. You know, you can Google anything, but you have to make it so that it works for you and your individual situation. What works for a doctor and may not work for key and vice versa. Finances is personal for a reason. So just determined just make your mindset up, finding that plan and go to work and adjust as necessary. You know, it's not going to be perfect. So

Keith McKeever 34:59

alright, Absolutely. So I'll ask you this. Just a random question. I just kind of thought of kind of a three part question.

Dr. Ann James 35:07

Oh, three part random question.

Keith McKeever 35:10

So any other advice that you would have for that demographic of that 18 to 25 year olds that just got in the military or been in, I don't know, five, six years, whatever, that are having financial troubles, any, any additional advice for them?

Dr. Ann James 35:27

Wow. I was say, to seek help, don't fall into the realm of stigma, thinking that you're weak or whatever have you asking for help the saying, you know, we talk about seeking help when we talk about mental things and stuff like that, the same for you go for your finances. I know, if you're active duty, there's resources on base, that I say based on the Air Force of pose for Army, wherever your installation. There's, there's resources on your installations that's free to you, if you don't feel comfortable going to your local installation. There's, you know, individuals like myself, organization is somebody in the civilian sector that works directly with military personnel. So you just want to once again, do your research, when you're working with people, because people tend to, you know, they might see your military and take advantage of it, you know, that type of stuff. But I would say, you know, if you're finding yourself in experiencing some type of financial problems, seek the help, don't put your head in the sand and try to avoid it, you know, that type of stuff. You're not the only one, you know, you know, so you're not the only one. So just get over yourself and get the help that you need. So you can continue to go on with your life. So that's one thing I would say.

Keith McKeever 36:54

Realistically, they're definitely not the only one, they can look to their left and look to their right now, I almost guarantee you, somebody to your to your left to your right, is having the same or very similar problems. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz, like I said, all back in the beginning here that we all have different levels of financial literacy. And then you go into 18 years old, what do you know about life? What do you know about a consistent paycheck and, and all these things, right, you don't know that in stuff's just given to you, and you got money. And now you can go spend it on things that nobody's there to teach you about anything. It's probably a I hate to I hate to say it like this, because I was an NCO. But I think those young troops become NCOs. And if they don't have the financial literacy, they can't turn right around and mentor the young trees that keep them out of financial problems. That's what sometimes it's a failure of the NCOs. But it's not necessarily their failures, the failure of the seat who's now the senior NCOs or generations before and it's just kind of piggyback but

Dr. Ann James 37:56

yeah, I don't know what you don't know. Right? So that's the thing So you're absolutely it's like a trickles downhill type stuff. But, you know, self education is big, you know, I had to, that's what I did. I self educated myself, I read books, I watch, you know, webinars, I still listen to podcasts, you know, all of those things. You can self educate yourself is not rocket science. And don't think, Oh, my good with math, you know, that type of stuff. That's that scarcity mindset. You there's apps now there's a spreadsheet like a spreadsheet I'm gonna provide Keith is that it does the math for you? Yeah. Now, what's your excuse? You know, I'm saying so

Keith McKeever 38:35

if you join the military, you can push the buttons on the keyboard. I'm sure somebody in your unit knows how to use Excel.

Dr. Ann James 38:43

Exactly. You can all fashioned pen and paper does just fine. And a calculator.

Keith McKeever 38:50

Come on, Doc. Nobody knows how to do math by hand and

Dr. Ann James 38:53

get a calculator.

Keith McKeever 38:57

Oh, yeah. Oh, that would help. Yeah.

I don't have one of my office anymore. My kids broke mine somehow. I got my phone. My phone still works. I got one on the phone. So part two of this question is, and I thought of this because you've lived these unique experiences. You got to e6, then you commissioned. So for those people in that? I don't know, II 567 You know, range. Middle their career. 810 12 years in, what kind of financial advice do you have anything else extra for them?

Dr. Ann James 39:34

Ah, man, this is like my sweet spot. No, what I would say is you need to no matter if you plan on staying in 20 years or getting out in the next three years. You need to plan for your transition. The transition out of the military is inevitable. You're not going to be able to stay in the military or ever. Right. So you You need to plan not just financially, but you know, really mentally because that has, you know, a lot to do with it as well, your identity, you know, outside of the military, once you take your uniform off, what type of career you want to have? Do you want to come back to work as leader? Or do you want to do it in entrepreneurship? You need to plan for that. So you need, that's the thing I think a lot of people make, make the mistake, they don't plan for getting out of the military, or they think, especially those unexpected transitions, right? If you get hurt, you get injured, you know, type stuff, or, or I'll retire, I'll be good. No, you know, I knew once again, like I told you, when I switched over, once I decided to stay in because I was gonna get out eight years in, I mean, I had orders in hand, but somebody changed my mind. But I was gonna get out. But once I decided to stay in, I knew I was going to make the most of it so that when I do retire in those 1012 years, I didn't want to have to work again. If I wanted to work, I work, but I didn't want to have to work again. So that's why you need to start planning. I'm thankful I was in a good job. You know, I was personnel. I was finance. So I had the skills that was transferable. But if you know you find yourself in those skills that are not transferable. Okay, what are you doing now to change that? Are you going for a degree that's more marketable? You know, that type of stuff. I know certain jobs are harder than or whether they go to school, I get it. But there is life outside of the military. And you need to plan for the court.

Keith McKeever 41:38

Not even if you do 20 years, 2022 years to get out of 3840 Somewhere in there. Right? You still have another 20 to 25 years of work life work. Typical retirement age. Yeah, that's that's a whole nother life. Yeah. And I think people don't realize that you got, you know, your childhood to 1820 years old. If you do a whole career in the military, that's another 1520 years, 25 years, whatever it ends up being, you know, for a variety of issues there. And then you still have another 2025 years after that, and then you got retirement, it breaks it up into different sections of life, and, and having a good financial footing, will make your transition way smoother.

We cannot not pound the table enough on that.

That is a huge pillar to success.

Dr. Ann James 42:31

Yes. Yes. I mean, you're already dealing with maybe dealing with a lot of challenges when you transition. Anyway, me myself, I did not say my transition was a success. That's why I did my dissertation on it is this assess factors, you know, what does it take to have a successful transition? And some of those factors was, like we said, the planning and the preparation, the networking, right? Using your skills and knowledge on the military. Those are all factors that come into play in order for you to have a successful transition. So don't buy into the myth that everybody's transition is difficult. That no, my wasn't, I mean, I, and it's probably because I was ready to go. And

Keith McKeever 43:19

I said,

Dr. Ann James 43:20

No, yes, you're ready. Oh, saying so it's like, it doesn't have to be a difficult transition, as you hear, you know, on the news and stuff like that. It's just preparation, I think is key, you know, the military, I don't think do a good job with a year out. Tap. You need to, I say, from day one, no matter what, if you're just going in for 346 years, what are you gonna do? You know, so that when you get out, you're setting yourself up, you know, for success. So

Keith McKeever 43:53

I'm actually said that a few times that the transition out should start before you even join the union, you should realize that I don't care if you enlist for four, and do four, or you enlist for four and end up doing 20. Like you said earlier, your time is up like your time is. And I hate to put a negative spin on it, but they're just gonna push you out the door, and your replacements coming in. Hell, they're not gonna care about you. Now you're part of our cool, cool kids club of veterans. Hello. But the military is not gonna care about you anymore. Now your VA medical stuff is on you, your career, your finances, all that stuff is on you. You got to figure all that stuff out. Yeah, it's you know, it can be difficult but mine mine was pretty easy. I was unemployed for about a month got a job selling furniture. There was a small group of us there is manager, Assistant Manager and other sales guy in me and a weird guy in the warehouse. There's other parts of the store but the company I worked for is kind of broken up. So like we only worked together. The other people were in the building, but we would just, you know, casually say hire chitchat. But so we had a very small group. It was less than squad. I mean, it was it was six, seven people, even if the delivery guys were there was eight, nine people most. Yeah, it's I went from that, because our security forces went from that small. We really did things and fire team levels and stuff like that sometimes to basically the same thing. Small group of people I work 6070 hours a week with these people. We did everything together. We ate together. We, it was a furniture store. So we moved all the furniture, we unload the trucks, we loaded people's vehicles, like we did it all together. Yeah. And I think for me, like that made my transition easy. Like, I blinked and it was, I had been out for a year transitioning into real estate at that point in time. And I'm like, Oh, what happened? You know, and then I see on Facebook, one of the reasons I started this podcast is I see people struggling all the time. It's relationships, it's all these different things like, right, and I've had this kind of epiphany of a good transition sets up the pillars to success, the success being the roof, if you want a picture like that. And one of them is financial. One of them is personal relationships, what is connections? You know, and one of the employment in education, right? Yeah, like, one or two of those pillars is gone, the roof is going to collapse. And we know where the roof collapsing leads to. It leads to alcohol, drug abuse and suicide,

homelessness, and homelessness.

I mean, yeah. That situation is not pretty for anybody. That's right. You know, and so, you know, that's, that's why when I say like, we're Bolson, you're saying that your financial success is gonna be a huge factor in that it's a huge pillar. And that's something that you can work on from day one, and joining the military. Know, you're going to get out, have a plan, invest that money, be smart with it. Work it to success, you can make some sense, you're gonna be happy. Yeah, there's some people come out on the other end to 20 years in some pretty good financial situation Oh, below their means and investing. So it's not impossible. It's not impossible. Definitely not impossible. So sir, that's for That's good advice, some good stuff for those people in mid career, about the people that make it to 20 or 2530 and decide to retire. Any any particular advice for those individuals?

Dr. Ann James 47:28

Ah, you know, once again, what do you want to do after the military? You know, I mean, I think it's, I see so often, especially, you know, like myself, we're in for 20 years or whatever, if the military is all, you know, right, like me straight out of high school into the military. 21 years, that's all I knew. So my identity was tied, right to my military service, like my uniform, I'm a captain, isn't that you know, type of stuff. And once you get out, you're in, don't nobody care what your rank was, you know, that type of stuff. And that's why research shows that veterans, they go through what's known as a veteran identity crisis. Right? Because they can't they lose a sense of purpose. What now, who am I if I'm not doing this? What am I here for? Right? That type stuff. So once again, it just goes back to, you know, before you retire, what's important to you? What's your ideal job? Or, you know, what do you want to do or continue to give back or whatever it is, that's important to you as a venture as an individual? Once you transition? You know, what does that look like? You know, do you want to comfortably be able to live off your retirement check? I did. And I still do. Right. So everybody's situation is different. But what once again, does life after the military look like? Yeah, I mean, it goes back for both, you know, saying the answer is kind of the boat for same groups. Okay, is there's life after the military? What does that look like for you? And not just financial? Like we said, the whole spectrum of it. But what does that look like for you? And what can you start doing now to prepare so that when you're at that position, you just step right on into it? So,

Keith McKeever 49:24

you know, interesting thing about transition is it's an opportunity for you to reflect on who you are and who you want to be. I know, it may be difficult because I was only in for five and a half years, not 20. And I think the longer you're in the probably the harder this might be to do because of the identity thing. But you have an opportunity to reinvent yourself. And

so who do you want to be? Who do you want to be?

What situation do you want to be in? You know, it's an opportunity to rewrite the narrative. Write that next story from from chapter one.

Dr. Ann James 49:57

I love it. I love write your own story, tell your own story. Because all those Wow, somebody, you know, you weren't really free. You know, say you had some stipulation, which you can or cannot say how you can or cannot dress what you can and cannot do with your hair. You know, I'm saying, you have stipulations on you. So now that those stipulations are removed, what does life look like for you? Do you want to color your hair different, you know, nails? For us, women, we go crazy sometimes, because now we're able to do these things, and not have to worry about being within regulation, you know, type stuff. So, but yeah, you're absolutely right, you're able to rewrite your next chapter of your life.

Keith McKeever 50:42

Yeah. Be careful, though, that you're, you know, not stressing yourself financially with all that going crazy with those sayings. You got to you got on your wardrobes and all that stuff. Right. I mean, there's certain things that kind of transition. Yeah, but you know, you know, tie that back to the financial thing is make sure if it's in your budget,

Dr. Ann James 51:03

you're financially prepared to wow, yeah.

Keith McKeever 51:08

If you plan for it, prepare for it, then you have.

Dr. Ann James 51:12

And you know, what, you bring up a great point, right? Like, when I retired, I did nothing for a year. I didn't work, but I didn't have to work. I travel. I sort of laid around and watch TV. I exercise when I wanted to, you know, saying so you want to give yourself you know, for those like you said that have 20 years, 30 years, give yourself some downtime, to relax to on what you know, going from I just couldn't imagine you're not in the military. And I know people do it into each zone. Get out of military one day and the next Monday you back into civilian clothes. Oh, yeah, I got time for that. You know, you want to take some time if you can, to you know, relax. And just like you said, reflect on your life to see, what do you want your life to be like, you know? Yeah, enjoy it. Yeah, give yourself some time. Whether it's three months, six months, I took a whole year and I knew that I was like, I'm not doing nothing for the first year or not nothing. My answer was people were asking me what do you do now to to retire? I do what the hell I want to do. So you know, it is there it is. I

Keith McKeever 52:32

wish we could all do that all the time. In some ways, you know what if you got the right mindset, and the right goals, you could pretty much do whatever you want to do. Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Ann James 52:42

That's freedom. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 52:44

absolutely. Absolutely. So yes, sir. Well, Doctor, I appreciate you being on here. dropping some knowledge there's gonna be a lot of good nuggets of information in this one. If anybody wants to reach out to her doctor and James calm, that's Dr. And James calm for those listening. Sometimes I forget that this is on video. scroll across the bottom. Or you can go on Spotify, Apple, Google, all those different podcast platforms and you can catch freedom battle buddies of color on there. I'll have all the links in the description on on mine as well. So that's where you can meet up with Dr. James. And I know you're on clubhouse too.

Dr. Ann James 53:27

Yeah, I need to get back on that's how we met right I need to get back on clubhouse but yeah, as you mentioned my website on LinkedIn Dr. N J's IG at Dr. N j's and also on Facebook, and Jason Keefe as I mentioned earlier, like you said you can have it in the show notes with the new year coming up not sure when to say err, you know that type stuff. But I want to provide your guests with you know, a lot of like we said you need a plan a place to start so I had this freebie is called as an interactive spin plan is like you just put in the numbers and it calculates the percentages how much you should spend in each category. i How much in food, how much on car payments and that type. So once again, everybody's situation is different. But it gets really the excuse I'm not good with money. I don't know where to start, you know, with numbers I don't know where to start. It does the math for you and it's a plan to get you started and it's just adjusted to make it personal for your situation. So I would definitely provide you the link for you to share with your audience is awesome. Starting in a new year.

Keith McKeever 54:35

I can't wait to check that out because that's awesome. If nothing else, it gives people just an idea an idea to frame in their mind of like oh shoot I'm spending way too much money on eat now which is oh we all of us.

Dr. Ann James 54:48

Yeah, or oh shoot, I wasn't saving for Christmas. You know, I mean those little categories that you don't think the save for in a monthly base car registration because it's an annual expense. You know, it's those little things So

Keith McKeever 55:02

Christmas is last week I'm one of those on Christmas didn't plan appropriately for Christmas

Dr. Ann James 55:06

Are you one of those? Yes See?

Keith McKeever 55:08

Start putting the list together and you're like you got the money for it but it was like oh shoot I spend more than expected

Dr. Ann James 55:17

but that's why I say Christmas is the same day every year.

Keith McKeever 55:22

Know exactly what it is you have no choice.

Dr. Ann James 55:24

It is just start it goes back to like we said planning and putting a set if say if you spend 1000 $1,200 This Christmas Okay, that's $100 Every month you know you can set aside so that when Christmas rolls around the money is there now stay within your budget is a little bit different but at least you know you have 1200 versus 500 You know

Keith McKeever 55:48

what those kids put on that list? You know what I'm saying? That's true. You know?

Dr. Ann James 55:51

You can start with our kids we can't afford that is not in the budget

Keith McKeever 55:57

absolutely nothing weird birthdays don't change either. So weird. Same day every year.

Dr. Ann James 56:03

Same day if you remember you remember

Keith McKeever 56:07

hey guys what calendars are for you consider my Facebook Facebook tells you all that stuff right great point so miss you put your your birthday in there so people can remember to send you a gift. Yeah, exactly. Good. Good advice right there or buy gift. I mean, just the typical have inundation of happy birthdays from everybody. Yeah, everybody shows you love one day or? Yep. So once again, I appreciate Well, I have all this stuff in the show notes. And yeah, clubhouse we might have to do a little chatting about some elaborations on clubhouse and maybe talk about money and finances not only personal stuff but real estate and kind of tie all these things in so we have to come up with creative stuff so listeners viewers if you're on clubhouse be looking out for for something like that. We might have to come up with something because I'm feeling the same way like I got to get back on clubhouse with finishing college this fall so really

Dr. Ann James 57:00

a good distraction. You had a good reason I just got tired of you know how so you know how it is something so new you go out crazy, but after a while it's like I'm clubhouse a slug you in if you let it you know. So I think

Keith McKeever 57:12

the pandemic didn't help that any either. Where things are kind of slowed down in the spring. And I don't know just a lot of late nights a lot of great connections. I'll tell you what, I've had a lot of guests come from clubhouse a lot of cool people that I've connected with off of clubhouse since then. It's an amazing thing. But yeah, I think there's a lot people just kind of fell off a little bit. We didn't bring it back. We don't bring it full time sake.

Alright, once again, I appreciate it.

Dr. Ann James 57:42

Thank you brother. Yep,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai