Hacking The Team
We are all used to operating in high functioning teams, but in the civilian world that isn't always the case. For Navy veteran, Tim Dickey a system founded in 2001 provides a system for all teams to operate more efficiently and with better communication. Agile and Scrum are two terms most are not familiar with but these genius systems make managing work and teams much more efficient. Tim breaks down these systems, how they work and other topic of managing effectively.
Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:
https://www.timdickey.com/more-or-less-public-moments/
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Transcript from Episode 60 with Tim Dickey:
Keith McKeever 0:02
Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever.
Keith McKeever 0:08
Welcome back to the battle buddy podcast. I've got Tim Dickey with me here. And Tim was going to talk about a bunch of tech stuff. I was just joking with him a couple minutes ago. I'm like, You're the expert on it. I don't know that much about all this stuff. So we're all going to learn about agile and some other stuff. We great conversation coming up. We just had some great conversation. We won't go back into it. But he just watched a great film that came out top gun, and he was giving you some amazing raving reviews on it. So all I'll say is, you should definitely watch that, because I know like it's getting penciled in my schedule next week. So Tim, welcome to the show.
Tim Dickey 0:43
Hey, Keith, thanks for having me, man. And, you know, a pleasure to be here.
Keith McKeever 0:47
Absolutely. So, before we start, just tell us a little about yourself and what you did in the Navy, how you got in the Navy, you know, whatever, whatever you want to share about your story there.
Tim Dickey 0:57
Yeah, the Navy, it is funny, you know, we're gonna take and do the throwback to Top Gun. At the point in time, where I joined the Navy, Top Gun had been out for a few years, it actually served as part of the inspiration for me to join. And as a result of that, I ended up serving in the Submarine Force on active duty for almost seven years. And if anybody is familiar with the Submarine Force, I'm not gonna bore you with all the details. But for those of us, for somebody who is not familiar, basically, to be on nuclear submarines, you got to learn how the entire boat works to become qualified in submarine warfare. And so that really piqued my interest in this whole technology thing. And of course, having a rudimentary understanding of reactor operations and whatnot. It's like Anna, I get this man, maybe I need to make a career out of it. And I ended up becoming an owner operator. And that's all computer driven. And so, you know, that led to leaving active duty going into the reserve, subsequently returning to college and starting a career in information technology. And the first real job I had after graduating from college, working for Carnival Cruise Lines on board cruise ships.
Keith McKeever 2:16
Now, that would be interesting. I've been on one cruise, my wife and I went last December, we went on Royal Caribbean, amazing experience. We had one on one for a long time, we should have been on one like 10 years before that. We can't wait for the next one.
Tim Dickey 2:31
In think about the amount of technology that you came into contact with. I mean, from the screens to all the interactive displays, and what I mean,
Keith McKeever 2:41
like everything in the casino is a touchscreen. Like it's all touchscreen, electronic locks on the doors. I mean, we paid for the Internet package, you know, so like we were streaming and doing video chats with our kids back home, like while we're gone, like, I'm sure 10 years before that it was a little hit or miss on that. But the technology is there like you're out in the middle of the Caribbean. nothing around you but water, and you still got very solid internet.
Tim Dickey 3:09
There you go. And I entered the cruise industry at the point when all of this was really beginning to take off. And being a systems manager on a cruise ship. I mean, it's like, kinda like being a kid in a candy store. I'm like, oh, yeah, because we even at the time, we were really pushing some of the edges as to how we could use technology to improve the guest experience. So you know, I look at it and I've gone, man, being in some ways wasn't such a bad idea. Because Oh, it created a career for me.
Keith McKeever 3:42
Yeah, you never know what's around the corner. But let's I want to back up to the submarine. Because I'm very, very curious because I've interviewed one other Submariner before. And I didn't ask him this question. But I might have to send them a message and ask, if you had to learn everything about the submarine, what would you say is like the worst job to do on a summary. And what is like the best job, the best gig you can get?
Tim Dickey 4:07
I would say the one that's most challenging would definitely be be a culinary specialist, you know, because people, you know, people don't want their food, they want it flavorful. They want it hot. And unfortunately, by the time say you're into a six month deployment, and you're already 70 days in your options are pretty slim, by that. You know, and so it makes it it makes it difficult. It's not impossible. I mean, but you got to become more creative as to how you deliver those delicious and tasty meals. You know, and of course, that also lowers the bar and the expectation for the crew because it's like, Look, we're not going to get fresh fruits and vegetables as we're crossing the Atlantic or crossing the Pacific. Just not going to happen. So
Keith McKeever 4:51
So Joy why you got it at first and then it's going to it's going to be going out, man, I never thought about that. Yeah, that guy that guy's gonna always have a bull's eye on him. Yeah. And then soon as soon as the good stuffs gone, you're like, really bad again.
Tim Dickey 5:04
And second to that is the supply officer if you think about it, because the supply officers are responsible for, for, for all of the messes, in addition to all of the repair parts and everything else that are going in that whole, that whole logistics chain. So yeah, I feel for supply obviously sense.
Keith McKeever 5:22
Yeah, yeah. I just thought, you know, that'd be such an interesting world, you know? Yeah, down there with just a small group of people. Just in the middle of nowhere underwater, sometimes, you know, and like, not just this is wild to me.
Tim Dickey 5:38
And so, so for the best jobs of combat systems, you know, whether that be your fire control guys or your your sonar operators, you know, it, I enjoyed, I thoroughly enjoyed my time as a sonar operator, I'm not gonna lie, it fed my inner geek could help me understand a lot about acoustic intelligence and how to analyze things which we might get to that in the latter part when we talk about what I did on the backside of my career, supporting Special Operations, to cool kind of career fields that don't necessarily go together but yet, somehow made them work.
Keith McKeever 6:17
Yeah. So as a seminar, we, because we talked about this earlier, like the top gun before we hit record, we're talking about how as veterans like, we see movies, and like we pick them apart. So do you? How accurate do those look and films or is it just complete garbage? Most of the time?
Tim Dickey 6:38
I would say that, on the backside of it. When we're talking about the classics of For Red October and Crimson Tide, yep. They, they really don't do the combat systems, you know, department any any, any favors, because a lot of the displays and the information is like, ya know, maybe on surface ships, but not on not on submarines, if they want to make it look cool, but it's not.
Keith McKeever 7:09
I mean, yeah, they just grab some extra parts wherever and make it look cool. And make it do something on screen. And oh, yeah, the people won't know the difference.
Tim Dickey 7:18
Exactly. It's the visualization of the incoming torpedo or the, you know, the, the other submarine or other submarines that are hunting. Yeah, no. Not that cool, man.
Keith McKeever 7:29
It's not like a really realistic little diagram of that ship coming in. It looks exactly like that model.
Tim Dickey 7:34
Not, not battleship seriously. Hollywood, Hollywood needs to do something to improve the realism on the scene. They
Keith McKeever 7:44
got some big art, it's time to start hiring some veterans to get that realism in your films. I'm just I'm just saying. I'm not saying I'm for hire, but I am for the right price.
Tim Dickey 7:57
I think most of us if there's if there's a certain amount of money, we wouldn't mind putting a pause on our careers to
Keith McKeever 8:03
absolutely, absolutely. If there's enough zeros on that.
Tim Dickey 8:11
Yeah, Hollywood if you're if you're calling for guys who might help you get the authenticity, right. We're probably not going to ignore your call. The money has to be right.
Keith McKeever 8:22
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So after we'll just go right into after you got done with the summary stuff you went in Special Forces. Tell us a little bit about about that.
Tim Dickey 8:32
Was there. Yeah, the Special Operations thing actually, there was a bridge in my first separating the USS Archer fish, which is now of course, officially decommissioned and hasn't been in operation for years. We had seal delivery vehicle team to attach to us. And so that was part of our mission set. So I got I got into it really early. And I went wow, this is really cool community to be a part of. So fast forward a number of years and during my time in the reserves, I did a little interim stint in the Coast Guard Reserve. All right Coasties gotta acknowledge you got a really tough mission and Miko why I being down in Miami with with migrant operations and drug interdiction, it was it was really fast paced, even on the weekends. So I transitioned back into the Navy Reserve because I was at that point where I was like, Well, I'm only got a few years left until I can retire, you know, what might that look like? And you doing that put me back into the Special Operations community totally. And completely, and that was that was an eye opener being on the inside of it being part of headquarters staff, because I was attached to Special Operations Command south down in Homestead, Florida. And it was immersive. And in the meanwhile, I was actually changing jobs and becoming an intelligence guy in the process. And so I I got to see it firsthand. I got to participate in multinational exercises, I was on command staff for a period of time supporting from from the jock, you know, I was I was like in it as a reservists, but the attitude and the thinking behind it was if you bring capability to to the team, and we've got a gap, we are going to figure out a way to get you in the door and, and get you on staff and a part of it because we need smart people, we need people who are capable of working well in a team who are going to set their ego aside and going to look at it from the goal of the mission. And what does it take to accomplish those things. And so I was really fortunate because that fit into my last two deployments in uniform. And I did two rotations in Afghanistan. And the last one that I look at, and I, the analogy I use is, you know, I was like Peyton Manning, I had my two Super Bowl trophies, my my Lombardi man's and under my belt, and I was like, all y'all Peace out, I'm going home to retire. But you know, I, I worked in supported the rangers and other Special Operations units while I was in Afghanistan. And I saw it firsthand what that community is capable of at that level. And I wait, you know, this, there's a lot to be admired about the level of commitment, the level of professional excellence, teamwork, and I can just go on and on about the different things that I learned. And as a, as a guy, who already had a background, being a part of them elite community going into special operations, I knew I knew that I could measure up. And I've been really thinking about, well, how do how do those people who've never served in uniform measure up? What can we do as folks who are coming in to business to bring that kind of culture, that kind of attitude, that kind of mental toughness, to business, you know, and so, this is, this is what I'm, you know, attempting to cultivate, team by team, knowing full well that I'm not gonna be able to simulate any of the those experiences, but to give people kind of a, you know, a firsthand view of being an outsider in that community, and what it takes to belong, what it takes to really make an impact and become a part of the Brotherhood, the sisterhood of special operations.
Keith McKeever 12:25
Awesome. So. So now you're on the move from like a hardware side of it to the software to like agile. Can you explain what that with Agile systems is?
Tim Dickey 12:37
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So so agile is a philosophy that was published back in February of 2001. So yeah, 20 plus years ago. Yeah. So it's, it's been out there and longer
Keith McKeever 12:50
than some of us want to admit.
Tim Dickey 12:53
Yeah, and one of the frameworks under that, which some of the audience may be familiar with is Scrum. And that that actually was was introduced into the software development community back in 1995. So agile became the umbrella philosophy for a lot of practices and frameworks and approaches to doing work in a team focused fashion, with collaboration and cooperation and putting together groups of people who want to work together, and who are willing to really share and be beat close and be tight with one another, and exhibited certain behaviors. And, you know, so I think a lot of people think who agile Well, you know, it's this, it's that it really it's, it's, it's a way of working, it's this, this whole, we, we prefer this over that not that these other things don't have value. It's just that we prefer to do things this way, because we're being human centric in the way that we work.
Keith McKeever 14:00
Awesome. I see a lot of tie into the military there that especially the collaboration, I think sometimes in a business environment, you have one department and another department, and you don't really want to talk, like the leadership there is just like, No, no, this is my baby. This is my thing. I can't give up my secrets to this group over here. It's like, you work for the same company or you're working towards the same goal. If you could just communicate and collaborate. You could do so much more together. Yes. As a team. That's, of course, the leaders of those are usually the I guy. I do that. Yeah, yeah.
Tim Dickey 14:44
We could we could spend a whole episode on that one.
Keith McKeever 14:49
Yeah. And we've all seen a lot of that. But yeah, definitely. You know, which, in the military culture, obviously, it's, it's the team. It's the mission first and You gotta take care of your people, if you take care of your people, and everybody's mission oriented, and everybody collaborates and communicates amazing stuff happens, which I think is frustrating. I think it's frustrating. A lot of times for veterans when they get into business, and again, in those environments, and you're like, I'm used to working with a really diverse group of people, we come together, we know what the mission is, it's very clearly defined. Everybody's jobs are clearly defined. And we work towards the goal. I know somebody, I got a family member that works for a very large corporation here in my in my area. And he was telling me the other day, he goes here, and he was like, last week, last weekend. Yeah, you know, Monday, I got, I got a meeting at 9am 10am 11. One, three. I'm like, Are you just having meetings to have meetings? Or meetings about meetings to plan more meetings? Like, what do you do and spending the whole day in meetings? Like, what does that accomplish? It's, there's no action to it. You know, and I was just kind of sitting there dumbfounded, like, what a waste of day,
Tim Dickey 16:05
Keith, hit the nail on the head. And that's actually where scrum as a framework plays in. And I just, I was having a conversation with a number of my fellow Scrum Masters about this. Just yesterday. Scrum is an efficient way of managing how you work, because you out of out of will say 40 hours in a given week. You've got on your planning week, the week where you're, you're looking at the work that you've done, and you're planning the the work for the next week or two, you have about eight hours worth of meeting, which means that you've got roughly, you know, we'll I'll be a little generous 20, probably 26 hours worth of actual work time. Oh, wow. 26 hours of potential productive work time. And notice I'm discounting time for, you know, sidebar conversations and opportunities to catch up lunch breaks. Yeah, absolutely. 26 hours, because you're only in eight hours worth of meetings. Wait, where's my other mic so that I can drop that?
Keith McKeever 17:23
I wish I had what's in here, I drop it for you.
Tim Dickey 17:27
Where you get where I'm going? I mean, this is it goes right back to your point. I'm a recovering pm. I did project management and program management. And I was like, I'm tired of this. I don't want to be in meetings for the sake of meetings. You know, there's gotta be a better way.
Keith McKeever 17:46
Yeah, I think there's sometimes there's meetings, I've been in a lot of meetings where you get done after an hour. And you sit back and you're like, alright, well, I took down some notes. But nobody was nobody left here with something actionable that they're supposed to go do. Which just blows my mind. Like, like, what what we should leave this with a plan? Like, either. This is what we talked about next time? Or then this is what needs to be prepped for or this is what just going to do it.
Tim Dickey 18:19
Yeah. Like so. So here, here's the here's the kicker, right. And this is why I really enjoy Scrum. When it's practiced the right way. Everyday, there's a 15 minute planning meeting. If teen minutes you get your team, which is usually 10 people or fewer into into the meeting, and you talked about what work was accomplished. And I'm we're talking brief, because you want to make make sure that you get to everybody on the team. While work was accomplished yesterday, what is the planned work for today? And are there any questions or concerns that might prevent you as a as a team member, or the broader team from accomplishing what you planned. And then you have those separate conversations outside of the broader context to, to work through that. And then if there's a concern that they can't resolve themselves, they bring it to me and I get to work on, you know, removing the blockers and the impediments and the things that I know, are going to slow down work. That's my responsibility, offloads it from the individual team members. And then I get back with him and say, Hey, by the way, so and so, with that system access thing. We got that ironed out, try it now. Boom, you know, and it's efficient and what is done right? I've seen amazing things happen with teams. And and here's the thing, it doesn't even have to be software. It can be any sort of cross functional team. You just bring the right skills to the table. You get an agreement, you spend your 15 minutes planning and you know what you're going to do for the day. Action. Wait, where is that microphone?
Keith McKeever 19:52
Yeah, you know, having having an idea what what you need to do is important I just did was pre recorded but you New York Acosta nada, who was previous guests on my show your she hosted the business and art infusion summit that was virtual this last week. And I did about a 15 minute speech that I said to her about, like time management. You know, one of my key points in there was, you need to really, really plan your schedule, you need to, you can't just wing it every day. You know, I look at my schedule every weekend for what is what is this week? What is the next week? What do I have that is set in stone that I have to be at? What other tasks do I need, and I start time blocking, and I just start throwing it in my calendar. And you know what, tomorrow if I wake up, and we got Memorial Day weekend this weekend. So if I wake up tomorrow and decide that whatever I'm doing on Tuesday is not time sensitive for that date, I want to move it to Friday that Sophia I moved into Friday, I you know kind of always shift or something comes up, Tojo had things come up this morning for work. That's fine, just move something around. But you know, as you're finally massaging that schedule, you know what your goals are every day? Yeah, you wake up early, I go to bed the night before I look at my schedule, do some fine tuned adjustments. You know, maybe I need an extra foot. I know this road. I'm a realtor. So you know, I left half an hour to get from this appointment to that appointment. Maybe I need to shift that to 45 minutes, because there's road construction here, whatever, you know, just finally adjust that schedule. And then that night, I know exactly what time I need to wake up what time I need to get ready where I need to be in when what I have to prep for. And it's so amazing to just be that efficient. And I and other people just, I guess just wake up and just
Tim Dickey 21:37
know, you're, but you know, you're you're hitting that you're hitting all of the same things that that we talked about in in the Agile product and service development space, because it's now beyond just, you know, software. And it is it is look, we have to be awkward opportunistic and be able to pivot and adjust based on emergent things. Hey, you know what, you gave a great example. If, if you as a realtor, have somebody calling you saying hey, I'm ready to buy? Are you going to be foolish to not whoa, hold on, hold on. Sorry. My plan today is I gotta do this piece of paperwork. And I gotta get this contract completely through the broker and make sure that, you know, we're funded for No, no, you're gonna be awkward opportunistic, right. Hey, thanks for letting me know. Let me move a few things around on my schedule. It would be a pleasure to serve you.
Keith McKeever 22:36
Yeah, one of the things I do for my schedule, because I use Google, you know, not an endorsement, but it works good for me. There you go. I color coordinated so that I know I can look at my calendar be like this is this is all the videos are like webinars and meetings are blue. Appointments, like listing appointments, showings are bright red, like those are set in stone, there are confirmed times those do not change. But if it's just another task, it's or personal appointment or something that's green, I can shift those around all I want. And then I can look at my schedule. If somebody calls and says, Yeah, I want to do tomorrow morning, I can't do tomorrow morning. I have these meetings, but I can do early afternoon, or I can fit you in here. You're here here. So, you know, everybody has such a different, different life. But I've been like that for a long time. And when I talk to other people, and I'm like, how on earth do you wake up every day? And think to yourself as you're laying in bed? What am I going to do today?
Tim Dickey 23:36
You know what, maybe I'll just make the blanket excuse if the military did it to us. Okay.
Keith McKeever 23:43
That could be proper planning, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So there's Yeah, military and a lot of things too. Yeah, that's just just add that to the list. There you go. Yeah, I mean, there's like I said, for me, it's it's hard to imagine that you know, for some people might work just depends on your schedule, but you know, what you got going on in you know, if you're running a business or you're, you're in a corporate environment that your time is needs to be efficient. So just find a system that works for you and tweak it. I mean, I'm always tweaking mine. You know, I always learned something new. So he's going
Tim Dickey 24:23
away it i So so here's here's what I'd like to challenge you to do is take a look at scrum as a framework and see if that actually would work within your office because you know, if if there's an opportunity to make more efficient use of time, the the prescribed way of applying Scrum is you you structure it so that say if you guys are working on a monthly cadence where you have have an all hands every month, you can say look, we're going to do four week Sprint's and a sprint is just as a time box to say This, this is a work that we're committed to doing within the next month. And oh, by the way, when we're done, we're going to come together, we're going to look at what was done, see what was successfully accomplished as a team. And then we're going to roll into a meeting called a retrospective. So the the first one is a review. The next one is the retrospective look at the team dynamics, what worked well, for us as a team, you know, did did did a number of Realtors cover for one another, and that was successful, you know, was there good lines of communication between the realtors in the in the brokers in the business, you know, any number of things that you can look at from from the team perspective and figure out what was working and what needs to be improved. And then, of course, you can roll right into your planning for your next month after that, which would be your sprint planning. And, again, that's like eight hours worth of work to free up. You know, in a case of, we'll say, we'll do the 2626. So that would be 5252 hours in a regular work week, 52 hours, the labs are no, that would be 104 for a month. I'm thinking 52 For two weeks, 104 for 104 productive hours, in a normal eight hour workday. And I know Realtors don't work normal eight hour work days. But I mean, imagine the amount of efficiency that the entire office could achieve. By just using Scrum is a framework to guide how meetings are handled. I mean,
Keith McKeever 26:35
that's a good point. Yeah, absolutely. You know, or, yeah, yeah. And,
Tim Dickey 26:43
yeah, it by the way, there's really nothing special about being a scrum master. You're just the person there to help remove impediments and help to help facilitate. Yeah, God, exactly, which is the bulk of what I do anymore. I facilitate, which is fine. Because I love not being the smartest guy in the room. I really do. And, and that's, that's the beauty of Scrum. It puts me in a position where oftentimes I'm like, looking around, and I'm going, Man, there are really, I got, I got really bright, smart, talented people around me. And so I don't feel alone. And I can take a step back and listen, and go, Hey, maybe maybe we've got an alternative perspective here from a quiet person. So what do you think about that? Man, it's amazing, that kind of Whoo. It's like magic, just saying, like magic, getting quiet people to talk, who are normally introverted and who are like, you know, don't like talking to in groups. But we value what you bring to the table.
Keith McKeever 27:47
Yeah, a lot of those quiet people that don't talk in groups, they sit back and listen, they soak up everything. You know, and that was that was me for for a while for a few years, I wouldn't I didn't talk too much. Then over the last couple years, I've, I feel like I've found my voice a little bit more on some of the committees and stuff that I'm on. I'm like, I don't care anymore. If I piss somebody off, so be it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak the truth. You know, if it needs to be said, it's gonna be sad. I'm gonna say it in a professional way. But if it hurt somebody's feelings, or somebody doesn't like it, so be it. That's my opinion. Yeah. No, no, we need to respect each other's opinions.
Tim Dickey 28:22
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that, and that's, you know, I don't you know, this is this is where I'll say that the scrum values and the values that were taught in the military, really, they match up very nicely, you know, and I look at it I go, man, we figured out how to play well with each other and uniform across all the branches of service. Why can't we just do this in regular society? I mean, it ain't that hard.
Keith McKeever 28:47
No, yeah. I mean, I've, I've sat in different places on different different boards and committees over the years, I see wild differences, you know, some of them are very loosely ran and not very controlled, and there's drama and stuff like that. And then other ones are professional, and everybody's respectful. And there's a mission. And I can't even begin to say how much more efficient the professional environment is.
Tim Dickey 29:14
So if you're not perspective, so So you know, and that that makes a really good question. I'm not trying to flip the interview around. Do you think this is the difference between command and control and leaders intent where the leader, the leader, whoever, whoever they armed because they're their leadership is an emergent property, an emergent behavior that anybody can demonstrate it anytime, the leader who steps up and says, Look, these are what the guardrails are, this is what acceptable behavior looks like. All all we expect is that members of this organization members of this group, operate within these policies, processes, procedures, these guidelines, these guardrails and let's get stuff done. Let's get stuff taken care of.
Keith McKeever 29:59
Yeah, I think But it was when those are there. Things work well, when they're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What else?
Tim Dickey 30:08
Yeah, I'm gonna use a big word when it's completely laissez faire. Yeah.
Keith McKeever 30:14
So, but so scrub thing. I mean, just just to kind of recap this, because I'm trying to frame it in my mind. So you see, you'd have a meeting, a say. So you can pick the time that you want, like four weeks, eight weeks, whatever. So you pick your timeframe. Yeah, pick it, pick your duration. And then you have a meeting to discuss what the plans and the goals and the guy the the guardrails and all that are. Yep. And then you put your team out there to work. Yep. And say, you give them you know, you know, your job, go do your job. If you have problems, come back to me, and we'll figure out the solution. And then yeah, you have a review of each person's job. And then you have a review of how the team worked efficiently. Yeah, you go right into the next period. Well,
Tim Dickey 30:56
and so there's actually, it's two different types of reviews. So And let's not forget the daily planning the 15 Minute, everybody together to see how things are going, you know, but there's, there's, there's the external, which is, you know, in your case, it would be it'd be kind of a client facing review, where you would bring current and past clients into the office to say, hey, look, we're looking for opportunities to improve, you know, our product, our service TQ, we've done a few things that we think might interest you, would you mind coming in for a half an hour on a Friday to just give us some feedback? So then you're touching your customer? Actually, you're actually saying, Look, we're going to be transparent with you. We don't know if we're doing well, or we're doing poorly by you. What, what are those things that you would like for us to work on?
Keith McKeever 31:52
Anybody who's in the service industry, you know, not just real estate, but anybody isn't sales service industry that says, it's pretty neat idea. You could just invite them out to coffee and be like, Hey, I'm buying the coffee. I mean, we're just off the shop. You know, I'm not, I'm not trying to gain your business, but your value past client or connection, and I would love to get your take on some of these things in our businesses doing?
Tim Dickey 32:12
Yeah, yeah. And then then that feeds into your team, internal focused, quality meeting where you're, you're looking at the last month, one week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks worth of performance and going, Hey, so based on the, these conversations with our customers, now we're going to look at our own team performance. And we're going to figure out what it is for the next X number of weeks that we're going to do differently. And oh, by the way, you don't have to continue stuff that isn't getting the results that you want to do. So you timebox that experiment, you just say, look, for the next month, we're going to try this. If it doesn't work, we'll pivot and adjust. You know, if we just hated the results were, hey, you know what failed experiment, we learned something? This is not good for us.
Keith McKeever 33:04
It's just like somebody who has a physical store, and they've got an item on their shelves that nobody buys. Are you going to order some more a year from now? No. If it's not making you any profit, you're not going to keep it on the shelves. You're gonna put something else more valuable there.
Tim Dickey 33:17
Exactly. Yes. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, you know, in Japanese Lean thinking. That's Muda. That's waste. It's, it's, it's an asset that's held hostage by an unreceptive market. So yeah, he, you know, this is the amazing thing. And I'm just saying this, because I've been, I've been on this journey of learning about all of the things that make products and services Great. All those things that make them excellent, and, and a desirable and delightful experience. And I'm realizing, man, we're we're learning things that were in place back in the 40s, and 50s. And we're still not getting it right. But I'm glad to be at this point where I can put a different, I can bring a different perspective, because this one, you know, the military angle, is I think, the unique position that I'll say, broadly the veterans community brings in we we are naturally inclined to give feedback when things suck. And, you know, now whether or not leadership listens to us is an entirely different story. But it's like, you know, think about a weapon system that fails during training. Do you want to take that into combat with you? The answer is no, not only No, but hell no, no. So so this is this is one of those where it's like, look, we know what quality feedback looks like. And we know that we've got to provide it or else nothing is going to get fixed but yet in business off 10 times, you know, certain businesses have lost their their way, maybe it's due to their position in the market, the length of time they've been in business. Your poor choices, types of leaders that have been promoted or brought in externally. I mean, there's any number of, you know, points of cause that cause that, that, that trigger this kind of domino effect. You know, and that's why I, I will refer back to Toyota as as a, an excellent business to emulate. Because where I'm at, I'm in Dallas, Texas, and Toyotas North American headquarters is literally half an hour from my house, I have intentionally gotten to know a number of people who work at Toyota, because I wanted to understand what it takes. And the truth is, Toyota in a lot of ways is very similar to the best of what the US military is about selfless service. It's about making sure that the quality is there, because quality is an intangible thing. It's the I know it when I see it kind of thing. And the irony is, is that customers are not going to pay for poor quality stuff, if they can afford better quality stuff. They're certainly not going to pay for better quality stuff, if they can afford the best quality stuff, whether that be a product or a service. And this is where Toyota really differentiates itself. It takes the customer feedback, I can tell you, I have filled out so many customer feedback surveys with the Toyota ziphone. It's incredible, you know, and I say, you know, if if this Japanese manufacturing company that used to be in the business of creating automated looms for weaving in figure out how to build cars from scratch, not having any background or experience in that business, and then continue to get better and better and better until it's the largest automobile manufacturing company in the world. Hmm, maybe we should be learning from them.
Keith McKeever 37:13
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to be learned from a lot of companies that have been around for a very, very long time that have found ways to be successful. And you know, they go through ups and downs, but you know, yeah, you know, the thought of manufacturers. I'm here in Peoria, Illinois, you got Caterpillar, you know, right here. I mean, they've been around for a very, very long time. And they figured out how to make some amazingly massive earthmoving equipment that's used literally all over the world. I mean, I know when I was deployed, we had, I was actually taking pictures cuz my stepdad worked for the company. I was taking pictures of the generators, just like you'd come back and show and be like, Look at this thing. I got this big. I guess it was like a freakin semi trailer generator.
Tim Dickey 37:57
And I'm with you, you got to think about it. Okay. So those generators that are operating in the toughest conditions in the world, and they're continuing to generate power for decades, not being a minimal amount of maintenance, who could quality craftsmanship? And they I guarantee you that that caterpillar is just like Toyota, and they're taking that feedback and improving that product, generation after generation. Oh, yeah. And that's the reason why people come continue to come back and buy their stuff.
Keith McKeever 38:33
I'm sure I'm sure ballclub has some similarities. I know Caterpillar actually makes more of their money on remanufactured parts and new parts for that equipment. Because go to any construction that you see out there. And you'll see Caterpillar tractors or other other brands to kind of stay away to that are 3040 50 years old, they're still out there moving earth, you know, they might they might be like, 75% new parts since then. But they are just running. I'm sure Toyota is very similar way just, you know, well, hold on. parts do break over time. Do you have to replace parts?
Tim Dickey 39:12
I mean, I'm gonna give the dirty little secret here. I know, in Afghanistan, that's where Toyota is went to die. I mean, open the figurative and literal literal sense. I mean, there was a, there was a third party market, in in a lot of these less developed company countries where, you know, I, I couldn't admit that. It was amazing. I was seeing Toyota to cells that should have been retired by American standards that were still being driven around on Afghan roads. I mean, in I'm just like, dang, it's not not the best endorsement for Toyota. But by golly, when you think about the fact that their their cars are operating in Afghanistan after 3040 years,
Keith McKeever 39:54
so as minimal infrastructure and parts availability and things still Ron and yeah, no, that's crazy.
Tim Dickey 40:02
Yep, yeah, but we digress. But so let me pivot back, which is, which is, you know, all of this that I do today is really it's around this, creating the right quality of products and services that delight customers and unleashing that creative energy on teams, so that they can go to the drawing board and get it right. Not Not perfect, but get it right, get it out into the market, figure out whether it's going to work or not come back to the drawing board. And it's this constant refinement, you know, we call it iterating, you know, it's looking for an opportunity to to inspect and adapt, inspect and adapt. You know, it's, it really does work. And for anybody who says differently, you know, again, Toyota, do your homework, Mike, I can't see anything more than that caterpillar. And, you know,
Keith McKeever 41:02
I'm sure there's a lot of power to in the fact that you're not having meetings all day, every day. And I think about those things, like, I've got days where I sit at my desk all day, and I can dive into a project and I can put my attention into it, it's really hard to do on a day where I got three hours, you get an hour and a half into it, and you're like, right, now I gotta start, start prepping for my appointment, or I got a meeting coming up, and now I'm getting up and I'm leaving, and I'm coming back, it just breaks up the day, so much. So if you're just having that 115 minute meeting, again, you're getting your mind, right, and then, you know, probably in a corporate environment, but you know, go to your cubicle, go to your office space, whatever and work.
Tim Dickey 41:44
Or even better, if you're in an open space, in a team space, you're working together, and you're bouncing these ideas in these, these approaches, and you're going out, and I'll just say, you know, from the software space, you're going out and you're doing some coding, and then you're looking at it and seeing seeing based on those code reviews, if the stuffs gonna work. And so you're you're figuring it out on the fly, and you're not waiting to try and bring everything together, you're working together to, to bring it together in the process of getting it to a point where it can be fully tested, and an integrated into a broader system. Or if you're doing it right, you're you're creating a modular system where a lot of things are very discrete, and they stand alone. And then they have a minimal amount of connection, and dependency between those things. So that if one thing breaks, it doesn't bring the entire system down. It's not catastrophic. You know, and so this is this is the brilliance of, of where this type of planning and and time management can really be a game changer for just about any type of business. You know, and I and I'm saying this because even even my company that I work for, and we're an IT services consulting firm, we have daily scrums, where we bring sales and biz ops and recruiting, and we bring them all together for 15 minutes. Now, now the format is a bit different than what I would do with one of my teams and systems and software development. But we're looking at ourselves, and we're going, hey, you know what, if we're going to ask somebody to eat this dog food, we're going to do it ourselves. We're going to walk the walk and talk the talk. Because it's really important in collaborative work in cooperative work, to have the time to say, let's get focused, what are we doing today? And then get on with the business or the business?
Keith McKeever 43:41
Yeah, and have the leaders to step up and say, I'm right here with you, like sit eat the dog food? Yeah. Interesting example there. But yeah, I mean, you know, you got to be willing to dive in and do things. And I think that's probably a really key thing when it comes to the leadership aspect of it. But where can somebody you know, employee has been listening to us for a little while here? Where would they be able to go get more information on this? And if they, if they were at a company that they wanted to? Maybe they're the owner, maybe their project manager, and they want to look at implementing this, where can they get more information on that?
Tim Dickey 44:12
Okay, so I will always volunteer myself as a first point of contact and this, but I'll say the authoritative resources are the scrum.org. Online, which is the home of the scrum framework, as well as the Agile Alliance, which is online as as as one of the other organizations that curates this type of way of working. And so the Agile Alliance has the scrum Alliance as one of the umbrellas underneath. Yeah, so the Agile alliance is the broader philosophy. And I think it's agile alliance.org And then scrum alliance is embedded in that and so those are my my two default Good places to start from, from an education standpoint. And, you know, I will, I will make the shameless pitch for my company improving.com As far as a good training partner, because we actually do a lot of training with scrum.org as a partner. And we bring businesses in from across many different industries. And we get them started on these foundational things and help them through hands on learning, to get the grasp of what it will feel like as they're moving their business to this way of working.
Keith McKeever 45:39
Awesome. So for anybody who's watching it, I've got scrum.org rolling across the bottom, but I will I'll put these links and stuff in the show notes for people on YouTube and who listen to it later. So you've been in IT space also wanted to ask because there's a lot of people coming out of the military and want to get into it. So any advice that you've got for for job seekers in IT environment?
Tim Dickey 46:03
Oh, yeah, yeah, in fact, I will make the shameless pitch for agile for patriots.org. It's a it's an organization that I went through, for for training and certification. And this is this is after me already been in, in the in the space for a number of years. And that's where my pivot from being a traditional project, or program manager began. And it taught me everything that I needed to know to adapt a lot of what I was doing in the military, and go, oh, oh, I didn't know there was a practical term for this type of behavior. And it all falls under this, this this framework of Scrum. And start building those stories around, you know, what scrum looks like. But in the military application, you know, and there's a lot of things that we just did, intuitively, that it's like, and I use the intelligence product development as an example, I knew I had a two week delivery cadence on my intelligence products. I was part of a multifunctional team, I was working with people who had expertise in different types of intelligence gathering, we're vetting this, and we're getting it to a point where, you know, through conversations, and you know, inspecting and adapting, it becomes a finished product that the boss can use to talk to the National Command Authority in a two week, time boxed manner. And, you know, so I looked at it, and I went, Oh, this is a great story. I've been doing this for years, you know, very, very simple for me to adapt that and say, hey, you know, I'm I'm in a good position, I'm well suited to be a scrum master. And so the training is out there out. Oh, for Patriots, is one avenue of getting that. It's an outreach that's specifically geared for military spouses, transitioning veterans and veterans who have been out to give them access to this for free. Again, freemium.
Keith McKeever 48:03
Hey, we like free resources around here. Exactly.
Tim Dickey 48:06
Yeah. And, and the the folks that are involved there, Ravi, Janie read. I mean, they're just great people. I love them. We just wrapped up the spring cohort yesterday. 10 people graduated from it. You know, I'm just like, I can't say enough good about agile for Patriots. Oh, and by the way, my country, my company sponsors them. So we're a partner with Agile for Patriots. This is how much we believe in this as far as the military's military community's concern. So, you know, that's the avenue and they're in this in this process. There is a lot of discussion about how do you how do you make use of what you've got from your military background, if you've transitioned or you're still in the reserve from your private sector experience, and then get your foot in the door with the right types of stories so that you can you can transition into a role as a scrum master or product owner. And actually, they're not roles. They're accountabilities scrum guide is the default 17 page, very thin, easy to read, source of truth. Scrum, Scrum guides.org. Another shameless plug, where you can you can, without hitting any other website, you can actually figure out whether this type of stuff would be right for you. PDF file, 17 pages, not hard to read. I mean, you'll figure it out soon enough, once you read through it, and you'll go, Oh, I'm on board with that, or yeah, it's just not my cup of tea.
Keith McKeever 49:37
Awesome. That's a lot of great resources. Like I said, I'll have all of those in the show notes. I'm probably gonna go look at those too. Because, you know, I just think it's interesting as I learned a little bit more about it. Just from a business perspective of just, you know, time management, reframing how you do things being more efficient. You know, I think we should all be looking at that. Maybe we're looking at it if you just need more efficiency. You're just life period. Just just to think about those kinds of things, you know, hey,
Tim Dickey 50:04
I'm going to tell you a secret I've actually had at our daughters, put put stickies on the wall to describe how they're going to work on what they're going to work on for school. It's kind of crazy. I mean, me being a Scrum Master, why would I ever think about using Scrum at home?
Keith McKeever 50:24
Right, exactly, exactly. Well, I want to throw your website up there, too. I have it in the show notes, too. So if anybody's got questions, you know, reach out to Tim go to his website there. You know, I do have all my guests as they come up, I do post a picture and a link to their LinkedIn on my website. So listeners, if you didn't know that, you can go to my website, you can find any one of my past guests on there, you can connect with them onto that tab. So you know, definitely feel free to do that. So I appreciate you coming by Tim and talking to us about Agile and Scrum and all the time management stuff, and most importantly, dropping some resources because that's, that's one of the goals of my show is, is, you know, this episode may not be for everybody, but for those that it is, this gives them something actionable to do. You know, and I always say, I want everything to be educational or inspirational to improve somebody's life. But this is definitely something that can improve your life
Tim Dickey 51:25
that hopefully, hopefully inspire you in the process.
Keith McKeever 51:27
Yeah, absolutely. It can really have an impact on your life to get your time your schedule, and work more efficiently. Like that's, I would argue that that's probably one of the biggest things you could do for all everything in your life is to just be more organized and on top of it.
Tim Dickey 51:44
So yeah, man,
Keith McKeever 51:45
I appreciate you being here, Tim. And you take it easy.
Tim Dickey 51:49
Hey, Keith, again, the pleasure is mine. And thank you for having me. Yeah.
Keith McKeever 51:57
All right. There you go, folks. Hope you enjoyed that episode. Remember to check out our website at battle buddy podcast.net. If you are struggling with anything right now, remember, the National Suicide Hotline number is 800-273-8255 or you can text 838255 as well.
