Courageously Broken

Navy Veteran Donna Michaels believes that everyone has a story to tell and scars that don't heal. Her book, Courageously Broken, is a memoir about overcoming adversity and conquering the battle scars of life. Donna has had a unique and interesting life and a story worth telling. From a rough childhood to parties with Navy Seals and a career of stories in law enforcement, she may be Courageously Broken, but she has a story that can heal!

Guest Links:

https://www.amazon.com/Courageously-Broken-overcoming-adversity-conquering-ebook/dp/B08J7TX3KV

Transcript from Episode 29 with D.A. Michaels:

Keith McKeever 0:01

Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast. I have Donna, known as da Michaels by her pen name, I believe is what they call that I'm not much of an author, so, but she is the author of courageously broken. I've actually got it on the shelf behind me, I can't believe I pointed that correctly. Know the way things happen in the camera. But Donna has an amazing story. The title of the book is called courageously broken. Throw that up here. You can go to courageously broken calm and find it. It is an amazing story of her time in the Navy. And getting out just going through life and then figuring things out and all these little things that I think this is what's relatable about the book, as I read it was we all have little things that happen to us little things, big things, medium sized things, whatever you want to say that that happened to us throughout life, and we have to get through it. And some things can break you, but you just have to have the courage to push through it. And I thought that was a very interesting title after reading the book. I don't think you could have picked a better one. So without further ado, welcome to the podcast. Donna.

D.A. Michaels 1:08

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this.

Keith McKeever 1:10

So have I, especially the farther farther I got through your book, I was like, okay, all right. You know, when it comes to authors, I want to read the book, you know, first and see exactly what they're talking about second, pull out questions. And it seemed like every chapter I was like, wow, there's there's good little bits in here. It's gonna be hard to keep this. Keep the questions short.

D.A. Michaels 1:31

Yeah, I've had a crazy life.

Keith McKeever 1:34

Yeah, definitely had a lot of different things happen. But yeah, on the book itself, I just kind of want to start there. And we'll kind of go into the contents of the book. What made you or is that happen in life or you're just had to flip a switch in your head said I need to write a book on my life.

D.A. Michaels 1:50

Well, you know, it's kind of funny. All through my life, you know, I had an old boss once and she she nicknamed me black cloud Paulo's. Because like a little Native American in me, and she's like, you need an Indian name. She's like, black cloud follows. And she's because if something's gonna happen, it's gonna happen to you. And, and I'm like, Gee, you know, thanks on your time, something would come along, she'd be like, Blackout follows. And, you know, as life would go on, you know, when it's you, you don't think much of it, you think this is this is normal, you know, crap happens to everybody. And then somebody you know, once in a while, I'd hear you know, you need to write a book and I just laugh and go, Yeah, well, I'm still waiting on my prince charming and my happily ever after. And, you know, maybe when that comes along, I'll, I'll know how to end it there, or somebody writing about me after I'm dead, you know, one or the other. So, um, I never really sat down to write a book, what happened was, is I had a one to many traumas, which we'll get into, I'm sure. And I had one too many traumas. And as a veteran, and as a 21. Year, or at the time, a 17 year law enforcement officer, it's sent me down a really dark, bad rabbit hole, as I'm sure you know, but a lot of people don't know, you know, 22 veterans a day commit suicide. And unfortunately, the first responder community isn't tracking it as well as they should. But we know we are losing far more to suicide than we are in the line of duty deaths. It's, it's pretty bad. So on 2017, I was I was one of them. I didn't actually attempt that. But I had a pretty hardcore foolproof plan. And I got as far as put my daughter on a plane sent her out of out of state because I didn't want her around. When I when I did it, and, and I made that one phone call that people usually make, just to one of my best friends who was the worst at answering his phone, like hands down, the guy like never answered voicemail. So I just assumed like any other day, I was gonna get a voicemail. And, you know, that would be it. But he answered his phone. And as soon as he did, obviously caught me off guard. Because I in my mind, I'd played out the voicemail. And I just lost it. I started crying and he didn't take him long as a veteran, he PTSD as well. didn't take him long to figure out where where my head was and what I was planning to do. And he spent eight hours on the phone with me that day, convincing me that as bad as I thought it was, it was never that bad. And that there was there was ways that I could get help without losing my job. Because that was what I was so afraid of asking for help. And in our first responder community, you know, you just like a veteran community, I believe used to be in some places I here still is, sadly, if you ask for help, man, you got a label and you're done. And I'm like, I ain't going out that way. You know, I don't want to the shame, the embarrassment. You know, what if they hold me off to the local mental hospital, you know, I just, I was terrified. So you get to the demons get the best of you and you're like, that's it. You know, I'd rather just die and go through all that humiliation. As crazy as that sounds. I mean, that is what the demons tell you. So, um, long story short, got therapy and While I was in therapy for a while, I asked my doctor, I said, Hey, you know, I can understand why I've suppressed bad memories. But why? Why can't I remember good? You know, I get together with my veteran friends. And we talk about, you know, the old times and stupid crap and the things that make you just laugh your butt off. And I felt like, like, what was wrong with me? Why can't I remember these things? And oh, come on, you know, you were there. And I'm like, I don't remember. Or there would be like a snapshot in my brain, but I couldn't read the details. So, um, I asked my counselor, and she says, Well Do do you journal on like, I, you know, I did when I was a kid, you know, and I've always enjoyed writing. I mean, as a cop, we write a lot of police reports, you know, enjoy it. I do, I do actually really enjoy writing, you know, and I'm told I'm very good at it. I've always gotten compliments on my writing. So, um, I started journaling. And what the counselor told me to do is when I got to a part of my life that I couldn't remember I wanted to remember, you know, call somebody from that period, sit down, have them fill you in. And as time went on, and I was doing this journal, it was like, and I don't do puzzles, but in a way, my brain was a puzzle, right? So it was almost like sitting across the table from a good friend and putting a puzzle together over a good conversation, filling in the gaps filling in putting the pieces together. And as I continued to do this, it was extraordinarily cathartic. Like, it, it's like, almost like it was like I was counseling myself, like, oh, you know, well, this, this thing happened, it it sucked really bad. But if that hadn't happened, then this opportunity over here wouldn't have come along. And that was a really good thing, right? So all of a sudden, all the pieces started fitting together in my head, and I realized the I've gone through some nasty crap. But at the end of the day, I was able to find the good in it, maybe why I went through that because it later down the road, you know, something good came from it. Right? So um, so that was it. So after a while, I shared my journal with a very close friend. And he told me that if I was ever willing to share my story, that I could probably help people with it, they would realize, you know, I'm not the only one that goes to this crap, I'm not alone, you know, and, and it's, it's, you know, getting help sucks. I'm, I never lied to people. I'm like, getting therapy sucks. Going through counseling sucks. I wanted to quit many times. But I also knew I didn't want to go down that hole again. So I'm many days I forced myself to go. And eventually, and it wasn't like a switch one day, or it just went I better. It was almost like a delayed reaction, I want to say was probably two years after I went through cognitive processing therapy, that all of a sudden it was like, it clicked, right? And things started to make sense. I tell people, one of the most positive things that came from CPT was I learned my triggers, I would find myself in situations where I would just lose my shit and get really pissed and sorry, I realized a curse. Oh, yeah. So I mean, I'm going to is a long answer to your question. But long story short, it was a personal journal. And I was convinced that if I turned it into a book, I could help others, uh, wasn't real comfortable with the idea because as you know, there are some really personal stories in there. That was scary. And then someone I knew actually did commit suicide. And it, it hurt me because I was the last person he spoke to. And I had no idea there was absolutely no science whatsoever. He was perfectly fine. The day I talked to him. Two weeks later, I got a text message from his phone. And it was his brother, who had gone through it and saw that I was one of the last people he talked to, and he wanted to know what our conversation was about and, and I gave him as much information as I could. But I was just dumbfounded because I was like, he was fine. I don't understand. And then his brother filled me in on from the time I talked to him, to the time he killed himself, which was about two weeks, I had gone and I had gone out of town and we were supposed to get together when I got back. And

something had happened. And that was his straw that broke the camel's back. And he went from being perfectly fine to making a plan and executing it in a matter of two weeks. And it hurt it hurt and I felt like you know, did I miss something? Is there something I could have done? You know, I mean, I just It sucked. And I and I thought Alright, that's it. If my book will stop one person from committing suicide then so what so I heard my dirty laundry out there you know, we've all got skeletons in closets and and minor minor flying free now and I gotta tell you, I don't care. I don't know if it's part of getting older as a woman but at some point, we just don't give a shit. You know? It's like I'm not to say, never pretended to be one. I'm human. I've made mistakes. I've learned from them and I've moved on.

Keith McKeever 9:54

Yeah, you got to learn that. Really call it College of hard knocks. overshadows all those bumps and bruises you're going to pick up along the way in life, you know, they're, they're going to teach you things, and you need to look out the right way and figure out what those lessons that though the universe is trying to teach you. And then, you know, losing your friend, that's, that's got to be tough. But unfortunately, I think that there's a lot of people that that do that, that there's no signs,

D.A. Michaels 10:26

oh, iBurst, as a police officer, I've responded to countless, literally countless, and you talk to the wives, the kids, the parents, the best friend's the brothers, and they're all like, I don't understand they were they were doing great. And we have a theory that someone has been struggling, and then all of a sudden, they're in a good place. That's a red flag in and of itself, because that means they've actually finally made the decision to do it. And they're just planning it out. They come to decision, they're going to do it. And it's a matter of the opportunity. I just talked to a family in the day. I mean, they lost a father and a husband. And it was they still can't wrap their head around it. Because the way he did it, it was physically impossible based on the physical condition he was in. But he was so. So he felt like a burden to his family, you know, he had to be cared for around the clock, because of some medical issues. And they still don't understand how he managed to do what he did, given his physical condition. But that's how like, and they said that night in particularly when he said good night, he was like in really good spirits. And I'm like he knew he knew what he was going to do. He had it all figured out. So

Keith McKeever 11:45

yeah, there's I think, I think there's probably a lot of clarity, and that, that kind of I guess I'll say, don't give a shit attitude. Like you don't care anymore. Because all of the burdens all the things that are on your shoulders, you have taken them off at that point, and you don't care and you've made up your mind. And

D.A. Michaels 12:01

they don't understand that they pass that pain when they leave behind. And that's the part that they forget. And, and I'm grateful that I had my daughter. Because that was in hindsight, I think that's why I made that phone call. That was my last. Even though I had a plan and everything. I wasn't in that euphoric, I've made up my mind, this is how I'm going to do it. You know, give it a new day, state of mind. Sorry, my German Shepherds board. If you are wild moan, just then he's over the corner. But I never got to that point, because I was struggling with the fact that I was going to leave my daughter and and and that scared me because I'm like, well, who's going to raise her? And are they going to raise her the way I want to raised and? And I think that I'm so grateful that I have my daughter? Because that's likely in hindsight, what made me make that phone call. It made me listen to the person who talk sense into me. For sure.

Keith McKeever 13:07

Totally makes sense. Yeah. So how difficult was it? I mean, God said it's kind of easy ish to journal and just kind of put down your thoughts. But like, How was it when that book was about to be released? Like, what were your nerves that, like, you've put your all your stuff in this book, you're ready to launch it? And all of a sudden, like the moment it launches, like, how difficult was that?

D.A. Michaels 13:34

technically difficult or emotionally difficult?

Keith McKeever 13:38

emotionally difficult, I'm sure. I'm sure there's a lot of

D.A. Michaels 13:41

emotionally I was ready. I was ready. And it was because technically it kicked my butt. Right. Um, as we were talking before we went on air. I'm not a technical person. And it was like, it seemed like even though I had an editor and somebody that fixed it, every time I read the book myself to make sure it was absolutely what I wanted. I kept finding things I wanted to change it I kept finding things I wanted to change and oh, no, you know, this, I don't like this. The way this is worded. You know, it did better. And finally somebody says, Donna, just let it go. You could you could read it 10 years from now and you're still going to find things you're going to want to change. Let it go. It's good. Just let it go. So Emotionally, I was I was I was ready, you know, because the hard road from the time I decided to publish to actually publishing was it mentally? It was mentally exhausting. I can't even count how many nights I was up. I pulled 24 hours. I pulled all nighters on the on the website, fixing this and fixing that and uploading this and trying to figure out why I got a kick back and an error and a lot a lot of technical stuff that I learned, you know, and and I you know, again, a blessing in disguise I was able to do Because I was out with a work injury, and it was right when COVID started. So I had to I tore my rotator cuff. And surgery was, we didn't know when surgery was going to be because of COVID. So I was sitting at home, waiting on surgery, couldn't work, couldn't do anything, but I could sit with a keyboard on my lap. And I would say many, many, many nights, you know, tweaking and learning and trial by error. And it was it was, it was exhausting. No regrets. And, you know, I know people that have spent a lot of money paying someone to do all that work, I'll be it got full time jobs, and don't have the time to do that. I get it. But I had the time, and I did it myself. So I will tell you, I hired a professional editor, of course, because you never want to edit your own work. And I hired my daughter designed the cover of it. Oh, that's cool on her tablet. Yep, she's she's very, she's the artsy one. I didn't get that gene. Um, and, and she says she designed it. And then we send it to a professional who knows how to do the templates and make it fit. Because it's all based on what how many pages is in the book, and you got the wrap around that comes inside where there's the, you know, the the, helped me out the middle, like the flap that comes inside. So you know, you gotta you gotta hire a professional for that stuff. But she did design, she basically did the, it was her that cover was her idea. And she, she drafted it on on an iPad Pro. And then we sent it to the graphics artist, and he basically just redid it in the proper software format, and all that other stuff.

Keith McKeever 16:47

That's awesome. Good for her for being being artistic because I'm with you. i My artistic abilities are pretty much limited to stick figures. That's Oh,

D.A. Michaels 16:57

I get it, I get it. That's why I joked when I was in law enforcement, my agency, we didn't have to do crash investigations. And any and it was very, I think twice in my 21 year career, I had to actually sit down and draw like a, or draw a picture and a report to explain how something happened. Oh, it was like torture, you know, and I used to look and I go, I don't help traffic investigators do it because they've got to drive the cars and then the lines and then you know, where the cars head and I'm like, now they got great software that does it for him, thank God. But back in the old days, we didn't have that we had to handwrite it. And I was I was terrible. That'd

Keith McKeever 17:37

be a lot of math. Back in the day I was I was Air Force Security Forces. And I was lucky and grateful to this day that it never sent me to a course like that. But I knew a few guys that did go to it. They would come back and they're like, Man, that is straight up brutal. Oh, it is I was like, Yeah, well, I'm not good at math. I mean, I can do simple math. But the moment you start getting angles and stuff,

D.A. Michaels 18:00

apply the brakes and all that physics comes into play. It's like no,

Keith McKeever 18:05

no. Just look at the scene and try and determine what happens. But don't make me try and figure out you know, all this complicated math. I was actually that actually happened to me. A week and a half ago, something like that. I had hopped on the interstate and I'm just driving down the road. All of a sudden I see this car. Two cars ahead of me just hit the the guardrail and spin around like, do you see it happen? Really at first it was just car hits it and I see the radiator and I slam on my brakes and the truck behind me does truck in front of me does whatever we get all out and gets traffic stops for cars that were included in it. That wrapped me up for about two and a half hours. We got stuck in between their response vehicles. I was I was talking to a couple of ladies in the lead car and we just kind of sat there just on the side of the road just like well, we're stuck here until they get this cleaned up and investigated. It was middle of the club, I

D.A. Michaels 19:01

will say thank you for being so patient and understanding because I have been cursed out more times than I can count for having to stop traffic on a traffic fatality accident, you know, where you can't let anybody go through. It's a crime scene. You know, people get mad and but I just live right there. I just need to go right there up. Sorry. You're gonna have to go out and around or find another way which can't go through here, you know, and yeah, people just don't understand. You know,

Keith McKeever 19:27

luckily there was a big gap. There was guy behind me and it was a big gap between us and vehicles behind us. And they were able to stop and was couple of semis kind of block traffic. And then me the guy behind me, the guy in front of me. There's basically four vehicles right behind the four that got in the accident. Three of us jumped out and went and checked on the vehicles and one guy got out busted up nose and everything. I was like, sit down next to the guardrail. Don't be walking around. Another woman climbed out of the car. I don't know how she her face was all messed up with the airbags. And it was a 16 year old and one card it was just like frantic and I was like don't don't get out of anything. I don't see anything leaking stay in here. Somebody already called 911 You know she was on the phone with her mom and and dad just

D.A. Michaels 20:11

freaking out right mom's

Keith McKeever 20:15

the one that had to bust it up knows his dad like ironically, both of them had their parents were on the same interstate behind them. Both of unrelated people. Their parents were, you know, mile behind two miles behind something like that. So they know traffic and got there real quick and, and luckily mean the other two guys, we just kind of made sure everybody was fine. The cops showed up and we're like, everybody seems fine. You might want to check on her first and go check on them. We stayed around and gave statements I didn't see nothing except for the radiator. But yeah, it was, uh, it was it was definitely one of those things like, well, there goes. Luckily, I didn't have an appointment for like two hours. I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. Anyway. So luckily, I'm not missing anything or shifting schedules around. It was nice to be able to be there and help and comfort people down. But back back to the book. So the beginning ever book does it is full of stories that are both surprising and not surprising at the same time. So we kind of jumped right into the book here, but you were gonna get this right, an administrative person in the Navy assigned to a seal unit. That's correct. And the stories that you describe of partying and guys jumping off balconies and jumping into pools doing all kinds of stuff with their faces on fire. Yeah, with their faces on fire is one of those things. I'm reading through it. And I'm just like, it surprises me. But yet it doesn't surprise me. Because as a general we're crazy.

D.A. Michaels 21:47

Military Police hated us. I was the getaway driver on many occasions.

Keith McKeever 21:56

I bet your I bet. I think about that, from that law enforcement experience being there for security forces. And I'm just like, man, that would just the calls that would come in on that I'm sure people are sitting in a law enforcement desk say what? A balcony with his face on fire. I mean, that's just

D.A. Michaels 22:19

cuz he stands up and goes, you know, it's just,

I mean, ever we used to joke or like, we've heard a stop, drop and roll. But man that's taken it to the extreme. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 22:30

that is definitely taking the extreme. So what is what is like the Do you have any stories, crazy stories like that that happened that didn't make it in your book? Anything you can think of?

D.A. Michaels 22:41

Oh, gosh, oh, we just thought of one the other day that I'm like, Oh, I wish I would have put that in the book. Um All right, I gotta get story, especially for your veteran listeners out there. Now, it's my understanding. My caveat is that the military isn't the way it used to be. So it changes over time. For the listeners, were going back to the, you know, late 80s, early 90s. Okay, times have changed. Dear friend of mine, I won't mention his name was at a party. And as a guy, if the bad somebody in the bathroom, where do you go outside near the wishes up against the fence post, whatever. You know, it was convenient. Right? problem was it was in the neighborhood and the neighbor was some high ranking. Was it was it a general, I was either an officer or a civilian if it was somebody of a high, high rank. And his wife was not the most pleasant person. And she happened to be upstairs and looked out her window and there's my boy with his junk hanging out pan against the fence posts being against you know, he thinks he's concealed. But from up above, on a two story house looking down, she can see over the fence line, right. So she files a complaint that is if it was a sexual nature that he flashed her and it was like, No, he was urinating. And he, you know, he was trying to do it concealed, but again, didn't know. Well, everybody kind of laughed it off at first and it was basically you know, don't do that again. But she was furious. And it's my understanding that the people that actually occupied that house were always throwing wild parties. So this was an ongoing problem. He just being there was the wrong one wrong place at the wrong time. Right.

Keith McKeever 24:38

So she's what we nowadays call a Karen

D.A. Michaels 24:41

Yes. So she was very much a Karen Yeah, yeah. So she she had this big stink of it up and he ended up if I remember correctly, I think he went to Captain Xmas and then the skipper was like, you know, alright man. Don't do that anymore. Kind of a deal. Right? Bathroom. Yeah, basically don't go pee outside. And then that was good enough. And I guess then the skipper's but was going to be on the line before he the way he handled it. They did a court martial and this poor kid, he was an E, four or five, I can't remember. They busted him down to anyone took away his he was a boat guy who wasn't a seal, what they call Swix now, took away his, his NEC sent him to the fleet. And for a long time, nobody heard from him. He did marry his, his sweetheart down there. You know, as he was leaving the country, they had met a girl and sweetheart, they got married, and kind of just disappeared, well then, you know, fast forward, whatever, 20 years and social media and the internet and we all we've all like, reconnected and found each other via Facebook or whatever. And he ended up rising to the ranks of Command Master Chief sailor of the year, and had an extraordinary career in the fleet. And I think he end up in the aviation community if I'm not mistaken. And just retired after 30 something years, a couple years ago. And still a fantastic great guy. And I'm so so so proud of him because so many people could have easily said screw this. I'm out of here, you know.

Keith McKeever 26:23

But a lot of people Yeah, you just don't take it the right way.

D.A. Michaels 26:27

Yeah, but see, now it's my understanding, you know, you you get in trouble now for something really even the most minor things and they kick you get easily kicked out nowadays best versus the old days. You know, people got away with a lot. You know, as long as it wasn't like a felony crime or anything like horrific, stupid drunk and shenanigans was just common everyday occurrences whose whether whether or not you got to now a DUI was a different story, right? Oh, yeah. It's always a different story. Yeah. But I mean, as long as it didn't rise to the level of being criminal, you could pretty much get away with it at any level of stupidity, because their attitude was, well, you survived. So you're stronger. Yeah.

Keith McKeever 27:10

Yeah, definitely a little different, probably when I was in, but I've been out for 10 years now. And I don't know what they I think they kick people out for just about anything these days. Yeah, I know. He's my Finisher of dumb stuff. Might have partaken in some dumb stuff myself, that could have gotten me these two big slap on the wrist or booed out the door. But we won't go there. No, I

D.A. Michaels 27:33

get it. You know? So I

Keith McKeever 27:35

guess that's one of those. What happens there stays there? Kind of. Oh, yeah. I don't know. If I write a book. Maybe it'll come out in the book. I don't know.

D.A. Michaels 27:43

I mean, I would like to see a bunch, you know, what I think would be a cool book. I'd like to see a bunch of guys that are out. And it's like me

Keith McKeever 27:52

when I was still limitations is over.

D.A. Michaels 27:54

statute of limitations is over. Yeah. And they don't have the kind of career where it could hurt them or in any way, you know, or like me, I waited for I waited to retire from law enforcement before I said or did a lot. Because I didn't want to be filtered. I'm not good at being filtered. So I'm unfiltered. Now. I joke with people. They're like, Oh my God, if you're if you're unfiltered now, compared to before, I don't even want to know what comes out of your mouth. Like I know. But, um, so but I would like to see a bunch of guys get together and write like short stories, and then put all the funny hilarious short stories together into one book. You know, I would tend to like, you know, see to shore shenanigans or some something crazy like that, you know, I think that would make a good I don't

Keith McKeever 28:36

know, the world is ready for that. Oh, I

D.A. Michaels 28:39

know. They're not.

Keith McKeever 28:41

It's almost like a TV. You know,

D.A. Michaels 28:44

started on TV. I actually can't heal that TV. I just I'm like, Whoa, you know? Yeah, hello. I got some dark humor. I can even like humor. But y'all are really pushing the envelope on some of this, like the

Keith McKeever 29:01

only thing that have pushed it, but it is hilarious. I watch every now but I really think like a book. You're writing a book like that would be awesome. But yeah, veterans could read it just like they watch that TV or, you know, other creators, and we totally get it. But the civilians are just they don't think it would help. I don't think it would help the narrative. Oh, yeah, I must.

D.A. Michaels 29:24

Honestly, and I tell people this all the time. I'm like, it really wouldn't change much from if a bunch of fraternity brothers at a college wrote a book. Think about it. That I can tell you firsthand, they do some really stupid crap on college campuses, because one of the areas I worked as a police officer was a college area. And I looked at some of the stuff these college kids would do. And I'm like, dude, even in the Navy, we wouldn't have thought of something that screwed up. What were you thinking? You know? So I think it's just it's it's a it's sometimes it's tragic, and it doesn't end well obviously for Lots of people that do stupid stuff. And then, but then other times, it's almost like a rite of passage. And it's a part of growing up and you could say, yeah, man, you're gonna hear the stupid thing I did one time, you know, that prefrontal cortex is a little delayed.

Keith McKeever 30:17

Yeah, that's a that's a good point. Definitely a rite of passage. And you gotta gotta have your own crazy stories to go along with everybody else's. Yeah, but definitely good one, too, right. So let's move on to something that's a little bit more serious. It will kind of dive more into your book here. Don't really have a good transition for this one. But while you were down, and now I'm having a brain fart. Panama. Yeah. You had some things that happen to you. Oh, that was a source. A source. Okay. That's right.

D.A. Michaels 30:55

Yeah. My first duty station was the Azores right out of a school and I was an E, I was an E two.

Keith McKeever 31:00

Right. Okay. Yeah. So I opened a source. I'm not going to go into the specifics, but it was military sexual trauma, as is referred to now, I don't know what they called it back back in the day, there was no name, you didn't talk about it. I think it's unfortunately, one of the things it's still to this day is definitely very brushed under the table, and something that most people don't want to talk about. And so after reading the book, I was like, well, but you know, as long as you're comfortable with it, I mean, you wrote your book. So I definitely want to talk about it. Cuz I've got another guest coming up here in the next few weeks. And it's going to be the topic of that. And it's a it's a shame what happens, I see repeatedly that people don't get in trouble. And, and women sometimes get booted out and they get labeled in certain ways and stuff like that. But in your story, in hindsight, all these years later, is there anything you would have done differently or to share the story of what happened immediately after, and things like that? How you might have would have handled it differently? Because I know you didn't really talk to anybody except for one person. For

D.A. Michaels 32:10

years, seven years, yep. One person, my best friend, the same one that saved my life taught my son since I knew the day it was gonna hurt myself. I kind of figured that's who it was. Same person. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he's a he's a, my big part of your book. Use big. Exactly. Yeah, he's, he's that that that constant. You just that constant rock friendship, you know that. We've had gaps in our lives where we didn't talk and we can reconnect, and it's just like, five minutes passed by, you know what I mean? It's just, we all have that one person in our life who just means a lot to us. And that's for him. For me. That's him. So

Keith McKeever 32:55

we are good friends, and some good battle buddies, for lack of a better term. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I wonder what but he was there that for you for for many years.

D.A. Michaels 33:05

Yeah. Because I could trust him with things I couldn't trust anybody with. You know, and, and, and as you know, from reading my book, trust is a big problem for me. So the fact that I found one person I could trust with anything, even my deepest, darkest secrets with no judgment, and always encouraged me and always pick me up. That was that was what I needed in my life. Because I didn't have it growing up. I didn't have it from family. I didn't have it from anybody. I mean, just him. So that's why, you know, I call them my safety was my say, he was my safe space. He was the one place I could go. And I could say anything. And I felt safe. So anyway, but So regarding the Azores, I was an E two. I arrived there in June. And it was not even four to six weeks. I mean, I've no, I've never been able to narrow down the date, but I've got it down to the month of July. So and because I went through my medical records, and I went through my personal workbooks, and I started looking at what they called all the markers, and I was able to narrow it down to okay, it was it was right around the mid July. So, um, when I first got there, you know, it's such a tiny island, everybody's friendly. Oh, you know, come on, we're going to a party and this that new thing. And, and when you're a female, you're used to being the minority, right? So to be invited to a party by a bunch of guys. These are brothers. This doesn't mean anything, right.

Keith McKeever 34:32

Yeah. I think the female population right now is something like 17% Today is much lower. Oh, yeah. Maybe 5% or so the force? Yeah, it's

D.A. Michaels 34:41

pretty low. Yeah. So um, anyway, so I mean, I was just used to being invited to parties and by you know, males, females, everybody, we were just like when it was it was a really small command and a really small island. So

Keith McKeever 34:54

ever been there, but I've heard that small, it's like really small

D.A. Michaels 34:59

11 miles. By seven miles, that's the whole island. Yeah. So you get big enough to put it on one part of it to put an airstrip. So

Keith McKeever 35:07

you land right over your head. Is that right? So again, the airstrip. It's so small that the planes literally like fly just barely over the beach to land.

D.A. Michaels 35:17

Yeah, it wasn't a beach. It's cliffs. Plus, okay. All right. Yeah. So yeah, that's it. And it well, there's also Diego Garcia, which is equal equally small. So both of them are about the same. So, um, anyway, uh, you know, he had asked me because he had a car. And if you had a car, at that command, you are like, everybody's best friend, because nobody had cars. And he's he asked me as a hey, you know, you want to go for a tour of the island? And I'm like, Yeah, sure. So I spent one day with this guy taking a tour of the island, and he was, everything was fine. And then we went to dinner. And then after that, he started like, creeping me out, like, you know, wanted to start dating and I wasn't interested in dating. I wasn't even attracted to him. I thought he was being nice. I was 19. I was naive, you know. And he was an e6. And so I started avoiding him, and trying to blow him off. Because again, I'm the new girl. I'm an E two. He's an e6. I'm trying to tread lightly. You know, I don't want to be disrespectful. Do you know how it is, and you know, any sex. So I just, like started ignoring him and blowing them all, you know, just try to avoid him. Uh, so like I said, it was about four to six weeks after I had arrived there. He had the quarterdeck watch at the barracks. So we had COVID barracks where, if you think of like a motel room, um, I could have, you know, guys living across the hall. It would be one room with two girls assigned to it share a bathroom, and then another room and two girls assigned to it, right. And that's how they all were. But then right across the hall, you could have guys, it wasn't like the guys were upstairs and girls downstairs when like that. So everybody had to cover the watch. So he was on watch. I can't remember I think was the eight, eight to midnight watch. Because if they were for our watches, and after certain hour, they had to log in, you know, who came in when you could only after a certain hour, you could only come and go from the main entrance of the building. But during the daytime hours, it was a really long, skinny building, you could come and go from the side inches, but after a certain hour after dark, then you had to come and go through the main entrance. So he had the watch. I come in, it was a Friday night, I was exhausted. I had left the club early or then like I went on another night, you know, because I was just tired. And so I walked back to the barracks and I walked in and he made some smartass comment and I just kind of pretended I didn't hear him. And I kept on going. I went in my room went to bed. And I had just started falling asleep. Like you know that Twilight, you know, you're not in a deep sleep, but you're not awake either. And I Oh, and I had a roommate that was assigned to the room. But she was never there because she had a boyfriend that lived off base. And everybody knew that. So it was like I had the room to myself even though somebody else was assigned to it with me. So and as anybody who had the watch had master keys to the whole building. So he had the master key. So I went into my room I was sound. Well, I was falling asleep in that in that area. And I heard somebody come in. And every once in a blue moon, she would come in either they had a fight or she needed something or whatever. So I heard I heard the door open. I just assumed it was her and it was dark, all you could see was just a little bit of light in the room coming in from like street lights outside to the window. So I mean, the best I could see was like a silhouette. And just as I went to say, you know, hey, what are you doing? Because she was well, I thought it was she, whoever it was was like standing right next to my bed. And if it was her she would normally walk by. And just as I went to say, Hey, what are you doing? I felt the hand over my mouth in my nose. And I couldn't breathe. And he basically you know, just told me to be quiet and enjoy it. And he had me pinned down with all of his body weight and I you know 30 The adult me would have fought like, there's no tomorrow, right? The 19 year old me from a small town, really naive. Had never process something like this going through my head, right? I came from a long line of Navy long line of veterans. I'm in a million years I never dreamed something like that could happen. You didn't hear about it. Nobody talked about it. Just it just didn't wasn't it was Just nothing that ever even came up with anybody. So, um, I froze. I mean, I like I panicked. And

and my mind kind of just checked out and went to another place, it's really hard to explain. Because it was a case of I couldn't breathe this his hand went from my nose in my mouth to around my neck. So I was legitimately in fear, right for my for my life. And I remember physically trying to resist but being unable to. And then when I realized that I wasn't going to be able to fight my way out of it. I think it was like I just mentally just like, went somewhere else. And I can honestly tell you, I don't remember much. I've never have remembered much. I can't remember the son of a bitch his name. First name only. Remember what he looks like? Can't remember the incident in detail. Can't remember his last name. And trust me at one point in time, I knew his nest last name very well. But that's one of the things that have been suppressed. I have not been able to recover. I wish I could. Because with the internet now I'd have a heyday. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I

Keith McKeever 41:11

wouldn't blame you one bit for doing it. Now. I

D.A. Michaels 41:14

mean, I've had people offered to try to help me find him. And I found a picture. And I zoomed in, and I've got it. But you know, we put it out there on a couple of sites. And nobody knows him. And what's really weird is the few people that I have remembered their names that were there at the time that would maybe remember his name. They're all dead. They've all died of either cancer or just different, crazy coincidence. And they're not that yeah, they died at young ages. So they don't even Yeah, it is it's like and I just keep you know, every now and then I'll go on a I'll go on a mission like, stall, start digging. Like, it's like, I feel like I'm never really going to be at peace until I hunt the son of a bitch down, right? I'd love to remember his last name would make things a lot easier. But anyway, it is it all I've got is if I do have a picture, and I have a first name, and he was an Airedale. And he was an e6 at the time, and he think he was from the New York area. But that's all I can remember.

Keith McKeever 42:15

So it doesn't help narrow anybody down. Oh, yeah. No. New York area.

D.A. Michaels 42:19

Yeah, a dark hair. Very. I think he had he was maybe Hispanic. He was either biracial or Hispanic race. I'm not really sure. But he had dark features bushy mustache. So anyway, um, when it was over, he told me that, um, it would be best to keep my mouth shut and not tell anybody about it. Because, um, girls like girls that like to talk, don't help themselves out. And it would probably, you know, I would be labeled a troublemaker, and I wouldn't go anywhere and, and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, you did hear about things like that you did hear about girls that would complain about, you know, so it was it was bothering me or whatever. And then they were labeled troublemakers, so and he said, he says, nobody's gonna believe me to over an e6 Because you think somebody is gonna believe you over me. And, and I believed him. And I and I had left a dysfunctional family, which you know, about in the book. And it was like, the Navy was my dream. It's, it's what I always wanted to do. That was my ticket out of my out of my bad background, to see the world and do something with my life. So, um, I just kind of, I remember saying to myself, it was a bad dream. This never happened. Um, this. I remember taking a shower. I remember vomiting. And I remember telling myself, this was a bad dream. And it just never happened. And I went to bed. And when I woke up the next day, it was as if I convinced myself no, that didn't happen. There's total denial. It was a bad dream. And I never told anybody and it wasn't until Panama when my person, Zach, okay, and I got into an argument. And because I was acting a little crazy, right. And that was the that was the man that was the beginning of the PTSD beginning to manifest to manifest. I just didn't back then we didn't even have anything called PTSD, right? Um, that was kind of the beginning of the consequences of not properly dealing with what happened. And we got into a fight. And he, he said, like, What the hell is wrong with you? Because it was a trust thing. And I just said, I was raped, damn it. And I said, and I said, and we're never going to talk about it. You understand me? Don't you tell anybody? And I think I just shocked him when I said it. And he was just because he was nice. He probably did. Yeah, we were both the force. You know, we were both young. And we were when Yeah, we were. We were 20 Maybe going on 21. It was either 90 or 91. So would have been about a year and a year and a half later. I said we're never gonna talk about it. I don't ever want to bring it up again. Do not tell anybody. And he was like, Okay. And that was it. And it never came up again, until 2017. When obviously many other things in my life it happened. And then it was like, I tell people when I hit rock bottom in 2017, that day that I made that phone call, an incident occurred. And it was like somebody took C four and put it on my little black box of traumas that I had buried in the back of my head where the rape was, and all the traumatic calls I'd been to and everything I'd seen in my career, everything just kept getting stuffed into that little black box that, you know, we don't touch it, they don't open it, we leave it alone. And when that incident on June 1 2017 happened, it was like, literally, someone took ceefor Put it to the frickin black box, blew it up, and all of my traumas came flying out. And I wasn't sleeping. I couldn't get the images out of my head. It was like I was reliving all those years 24/7 It was horrible. I've I've never experienced depression had never, I was always credited. Oh my god, you're so strong. You're so resilient. You know, you've been through so much. And, and I've just, you know, I My mom raised me, you pick a bootstraps up and you keep going. And that's what I always did. And then one day, I just couldn't do it anymore. I broke.

Keith McKeever 46:22

I think we all in some ways have that box, like you say, and just keep stuffing stuff in there. And eventually, no matter what's in your past, something is going to happen. I know I've been there. You've been there. Like everybody's been there. So what would you say to somebody who feels like, you know, maybe that's just happened, you know, they've, their box has now exploded or they just keep packing stuff in there with your eyes have to deal with it

D.A. Michaels 46:51

talk. either talk to talk to your brothers or your sisters. Okay, talk. Don't pretend that Oh, don't believe the inner voices that you're weak. Or that I'm, well, this is my job. And this is what I signed up for. Or don't don't buy into that bullshit. Because here's what I've learned and the research that I've done. Now, trust me by now I've done a lot of research. The difference between our current generations and the old ones, the World War One and World War Two vets. Back then, and I heard this straight from a world war two veteran. So I mean, and it makes perfect sense to me. And I actually it's ironic before I heard it from the World War Two veteran, I theorize the exact same thing in my book, which is kind of funny because my grandpa was a world war two veteran, so I kind of you know, I have a history. But I had this thing where, okay, back in the World War One World War Two days, you know, and police officers and firefighters, they had their own bars. They always it was a brotherhood, and they drank together, they broke bread together, they were their families had barbecues with each other. And the guys, you know, back in the old days, it was guys would go off to the side, and they would talk to each other because they could relate to each other. Right? They didn't talk to their wives, because they didn't want their wives to know, the things they'd seen or the things they've done. They didn't they were afraid of either a what they would think of them or be pass their pain on to them. Right. So they they did it together. Then this world war two veteran comes along at a conference I was at and said, I'm not going to lie to you guys. I don't know what PTSD is. We didn't have that back in my days. Some some guys got Shellshock, which was kind of an old version of it. He says but the difference between then and now, he said is nowadays you go off to war, you get on a plane and you go straight home. Right. Back then you went to war. You got bandaged up if it wasn't bad enough, and you went back out to war, right. But they commuted by ships that came with from Europe and Japan, they a lot of them were brought over on those huge ships, you know, there'd be 1000s of men. And there was a one or two week transit across the Atlantic or the Pacific. And that time that they were in transit, they were, in essence doing group therapy, they were talking to each other, they were sharing stories, and then they came home and they stayed in touch with each other over the years, they kept those relationships going. So that day, my grandfather's best friend died, they were there, they were in their 80s. And they were at war, you know, in, in the Pacific together. So the difference between then and now is now you know, you're afraid your your buddies are going to go and go and Don't be weak. There'll be a there'll be this Don't be that, you know, or this would be the same and this is what war is about. That's fine. That's true. That's not wrong. But that doesn't mean you got to just like take it and stuff it and not deal with it. You got to figure out a way to deal with it. And there are awesome retreats now that are out owned and operated by veterans that are all nonprofit doesn't cost anything. And you know, that's what we'll talk about a little bit, I'm sure but that's one thing that resource pages on my website. All these places that people don't know about that you can go and you can finally talk to your brothers and sisters. And there's these everything from equine therapy service dogs, you know, there's this one cool task I can't wait to do with my shorter leg. It's better because I'm supposed to go it's it's in South Dakota. Sacred Heart sacred mountain retreat. But they take the Oh, help me out part of my TBI, the things that go in railroads in place the spikes, the you know what I'm talking about, right? There's a word for it. I'm drawing a blank.

Keith McKeever 50:41

Robert. Yeah, we're just railroad spikes. Yeah, roads

D.A. Michaels 50:43

fades, but they take him and they heat him. And I give them this big ol frickin hammer, right. And there's a guy that guides him through, it's like an art class, but you're beating the shit out of this, you know, Spike, and you can make it into anything you want. Most of the guys turn him into cool knives, right? Because guys like knives

Keith McKeever 51:01

has a shape. Yeah, I'm like,

D.A. Michaels 51:03

Well, of course, leave it to me, I'm going to be like the non creative complicated one, I want an anchor. So I want to beat mine into an anchor, they said anything you want to create, the guy will the guy that heads the class will and and while you're doing this, you're talking to each other, and you're telling stories, and it's like you're beating your frustrations out on this frickin iron, you know, or, or steel or whatever it's made up. But um, so I heard that was really, really good. There's all these really cool, you know, cathartic and therapeutic places and activities, from hunting and outdoors trips, and hiking, and just so much out there, that's really cool and good for you, but you're doing it with your brethren. People that you can talk to that you can relate to, not some psychologist who, like scariest I've ever seen was, I don't know, a domestic violence victim that had a black guy, you know, not, not diminishing that. But we all know, as veterans and cops, we can't go into regular psychologist, they don't specialize in that area. Because the things that we tell them, they can't handle it. I've seen it, that they go, oh, you know, I'm gonna refer you to this person over here. Because they just all of a sudden, like you're giving them PTSD. You know what I mean? Just from telling your stories.

Keith McKeever 52:17

Yeah, I've had, I've seen too many people. But I had a guy went to a couple of times. And I was like, there was there was like some sort of disconnect. I couldn't figure it out. I knew he was a civilian. And I kind of figured that was hard on the lady I see now she's married to a guy to to a military member, but she's a civilian. But she's way better than what he is. So I'm happy with the person I'm seeing, but not to the World War Two guy. That was really early in your book. But I had totally forgotten about that, when I was kind of coming up with the questions. What I've always thought was unique is more to Korea, there was pretty well established frontlines, you could be in a unit, be on the frontlines for a couple of weeks, maybe a month, whatever. And then you could come back to the relative safety way behind lines for a couple of weeks while another unit rotates forward. In Vietnam, Desert Storm Iraq, Afghanistan, we don't have that, you know, you've got a population around you where everybody's a potential threat. You don't know who these people are, every time. And every time you step out of a bunker, there's a threat around you, you know, not even just anywhere you go on base. So you never really decompress from that. And then we come home.

D.A. Michaels 53:37

And the deployments are longer read the deployment and the regulations are shorter.

Keith McKeever 53:41

When I was in it was I hadn't even got to Japan yet. When I found out I was going to be deployed to a prison camp. I already knew the where I was going. And I knew approximately when we were leaving, we were doing pre deployment training at. And when you come back from those, I don't know how the other branches are but the Air Force to give you like two weeks, you come back to you know, you land that next day, you come back in process to the unit for a day, two days, whatever paperwork you need to do to process back in, and then they give you like two weeks off. What most people do they just come home and they sit on the couch. And how are you dealing with anything? You're not You're in the same household with your kids isolated? thing, you're isolated? Yeah, and I thought for a long time I take this how the way we do that is wrong. I don't understand why we can't set up and luck. Luckily right now, we don't have that many people to do that with but those who come back from deployment should probably for two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, be at a separate base. Even if they're stateside beat a separate base. You do pre deployment training, why not post deployment training, bring them back. Have a deployment like schedule for the first week and then we net schedule back to your normal nine to five job whatever kind of schedule you'll have back at your home station. That way you're around all the people you're deployed with the whole time, have a mission, have classes every day, kind of slowly decompress that throughout your schedule, the people, you're around and debrief for 234 weeks, and then you come home, at least if you're stateside, and you're doing that you still have face time with your family, your family finally, can breathe a little bit that you know, you're safe, their whole, their own American soil. It's all good, actually. And it's like, I don't understand what is so difficult about that.

D.A. Michaels 55:30

We've got leadership that just like MST, you know, I hate the word victim survivors, we'll call it survivors, okay, you know, I'm gonna choose my words very carefully, because I have a lot of respect for this person. Um, he, he, he's very, he retired very, very, very high in the ranks. And I ran my book by him before I published because I wanted to make sure that I didn't embarrass most importantly, the spec work community. Because as you know, in my book, in my world seals walk on water, I don't care how big of an asshole they are. I don't care how big of a frickin arrogant they might be. And I'm not saying that they are. But some just like everybody can be. But at the end of the day, I credit the spec work community with with my success in life, right, in giving me in giving me the moral mental fortitude that I needed to get where I am, you know, that just that never quit mentality. So it was really important to me that I didn't write anything in my book that would embarrass them in any way, like, you know, jumping out of two storey windows with their faces on fire. Nice. Funny, but I'm like, you know, is this okay to say I don't want to embarrass anybody. And he's like, No, man, that's the kind of crazy crap that did happen. Because now you understand that doesn't happen, which anymore? Like, yeah, I know, I've been around the new guys, they're much more formal than you know, but the old guys are way more fun, you know. But, um, anyway, so we, we talked about it. And you know, from his perspective as as, as a leader, sadly, um, a lot of victims are not believed still. And that is for me, and I was just having this conversation today. For me, that is a very, very complicated, difficult thing for me. And that's why I tell everybody, I'm like, Please do not put the meat you on me. Please do not put the hashtag on me. I don't want to be part of it. I don't associate with it. I don't, I don't blame the military for what happened to me. I blame one bad person. Right. What people need to understand is, one in four women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. And the statistic remains, it's one in four women in the Navy, or sorry, in the military. One in four in college, one and four in civilian life, it is statistically 25% of women, regardless of where they go, are going to be a sexual victim. That is unfortunate. But those are the numbers. So when you look at that statistic, that means and a lot of true victims are like me, they don't report it, because they are afraid no one's going to believe them. They are afraid that they're going to have to tell the story. And trust me, I've told my story. Lots of times now and you saw how many pauses I took, I still kind of struggled telling it, but I tell it because it's important, right? Um, initially, as you know, in my book, I couldn't even utter the words. It was a poster that I posted that I pointed out to get the lady at the VA to understand why I was trying to get some help, right? Because I couldn't even say it. Um, it's when you're a real victim. It's hard to talk about the liars right out of the gate. You know, because they're telling it. Like, they just went to the story, like as if they just went to the grocery store. Does that make sense?

Keith McKeever 59:13

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, the way

D.A. Michaels 59:14

they deliver the story, you know, right off the bat, if they're telling the truth or not. Okay, now, is that 100%? No, nothing is 100%. But that is that's that's pretty, pretty common. And as a police officer for 20 years, I got so jaded because I got lied to so many times by women who are lying about being victims of sexual assault, that I immediately when responding to those calls. I started looking for their motive. Okay, why are they lying? Is it a child custody battle? Is it my ex boyfriend, you know, is you know, leaving me is it? Where's the motive? Because if I can find the motive I can probably figure out that they're lying. And I can find the holes in the story. I didn't want to traumatize them, because what if they're telling the truth? And I come right out of the gate with Now come on, really, they're really happening. You know, you don't if they're telling the truth, you don't want to do that. Because if they are in a completely shut down, and you're done, right, and you've you've, you've done justice for no one.

Keith McKeever 1:00:19

So there's no help for them at that point. No.

D.A. Michaels 1:00:21

No, exactly. So, um, but I mean, even as a true victim, myself, and having not ever dealt with it as a police officer, even I got jaded, like, really, you know, come on, why are you lying? You know, in my mind, I'm asking, you know, why are they lying? And then there were times where I was convinced they were lying. But I still did my job. And I still kept asking the questions. And then all of a sudden, as I'm asking the questions, they're answering the questions in a way that a person who's telling the truth would answer them. Somebody who's lying, you ask certain questions, and they don't know how to answer them. Somebody who's telling the truth will know exactly how to answer that question. And then you'll wait or we've rehearsed

Keith McKeever 1:00:59

it in their mind. Because it actually happened. Oh, and I was thinking liars like liars have like, knows things. No, liars have

D.A. Michaels 1:01:09

reverse rehearse just yet. Yeah. Ask them a question. That's off script. That's unusual. They don't know the answer. But if it was a real victim, they would know the answer. Does that make sense? Yeah. So what I would do in my interviews is I would, you know, get them to tell me the story. Okay. Got it. Okay. All right. Let's fill in some details. Then I would start asking like more detailed questions, things that wouldn't they wouldn't have thought of rehearsing. And then that's when you can start usually breaking the story down and figure out you're telling the truth or a lie. Well, for me, and I hate to bring it up because it's real. It's politics, but it's not politics. The Cavanaugh case, Supreme Court Justice Cavanaugh? Let me preface it with no, I don't believe her. Okay. But that's neither here nor there. For me, that entire ordeal was extremely difficult. Because of the things I heard people say, Oh, well, she was a real victim. She went and waited too long. She was a victim. She reported it back then, if she was a real victim, this if she was a real victim that those were things that I myself related to. And I'm like, Well, this is why people don't tell. Because I waited 27 years to report it. Does that mean I'm like, no. It's because I've spent 27 years in denial trying to pretend it didn't happen. And then

Keith McKeever 1:02:33

there's stigma. There's all these different things that come up, like,

D.A. Michaels 1:02:37

you feel damaged, you feel broken? What are people gonna think of me? I mean, oh, my God, it's just, it's so many just awful. And then if you do report it, I'm going to be put under the spotlight of you know, why are you lying? And you know, what do you get to gain from this? And it's just, it's like being raped all over again. You know, and then I've sat in courtrooms for true victims have been have had to testify in courtrooms, and seeing what they go through by defense attorneys, and I want to rip all their faces off. Because it's like, Dude, I get that you're defending your client. But there is no need to be so horrible while you're doing it. You know, I mean, it's just, I don't know, I just, I could never be a defense attorney. That's for damn sure. I don't have I just know. But anyway, um, the point the point is, is, uh, it's no different than, like, what's going on in law enforcement communities where, you know, it seems like cops are guilty until proven innocent nowadays, you know, with everything that's going on in the world. You know, can we just give everyone the benefit of the doubt and do an investigation and then draw a conclusion? I mean, what's, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with waiting for the science or the expert? You know, because they've got people who can interview victims that are skilled, trained interviewers and know how to tell someone's telling the truth or not? Why Can't We? Why can't we just wait and see what the experts say? And then go from there, instead of everybody just jumping to conclusions on whether or not somebody's lying, or telling the truth,

Keith McKeever 1:04:08

we have a system in place, let that let the system kind of play out. I've, a lot of times when those things happen, especially for law enforcement, when it's a shooting or something like that. There's a lot of feelings on both sides of things. And I always feel like stuck in the middle, having some law enforcement experience knowing the use of force model and stuff and it's like, wait a minute, pump the brakes. There is two stories. And the truth is somewhere in the middle.

D.A. Michaels 1:04:34

And there's also perceptions. So people say well, that's not what happened. I've been to robberies and interviewed 21 people and 21 people saw something different. He was black. No, he was Hispanic. He had a black shirt. No, he had a blue shirt. He had this and it's like, you know, 21 people saw the exact same incident. But no, no two stories match because everybody has their own perception. So you have to take all of that, put it together and do a full blown investigation. Right or in shootings, you gotta wait for the the trajectory and the forensic evidence to play out, you know, well, my beef with the military, and I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong, is it's my understanding. In the old days, if I had come out if I had said something, I would have had people who had no criminal investigative experience whatsoever. Looking into my situation, is that the people you really want doing an investigation on something as sensitive as that?

Keith McKeever 1:05:28

Definitely not. Now, I don't think there would have been anybody back in the day.

D.A. Michaels 1:05:32

No, there wasn't. And I mean, I don't even know if there is today. It's my understanding, in some places, Cheney commands and commanders and can be people that their job is to be relieved in the troops not doing felony and criminal investigations. I think our victims of sexual trauma in the military need to be treated the exact same way civilly, victims of sexual trauma in the civilian world are, they deserve a specially trained skilled investigator who specializes in those types of crimes. And if they were to, you know, like, because here's the thing in the in the Navy, if you commit a felony, NCIS investigates it, or in the army, it's a CID, Cid, they need special investigators, like a special, special Special Victims Unit, just for those allegations. They need to be doing the investigations, and the command needs to take a neutral stand and stay out of it. In the real world, we would charge somebody with tampering with with a witness. You know, if I, if I made an allegation against someone, and then somebody comes to me and says, Hey, you better drop these charges, or you better let this go, you know, or XYZ, that would be tampering with a witness that would be a felony crime, and they could get arrested for that. In the military. Again, I was in a long time ago, I don't know how things are changed. I'm not anybody listening out there. I'm not saying it's still like this. The truth is, I don't know. And I hope I'm, I hope it's not. But I think that they need to be special victims units and commands need to stay out of it and let them do their jobs, and leave just separate the parties and let it play out just like it would in the civilian world.

Keith McKeever 1:07:18

Yeah, exactly what goes on in that anymore? I don't know. Like, you know, Air Force who investigates it? I don't know. It's probably Air Force Office special investigators. But I do know, they have like a well they call SARP. Office, Sexual Assault Response Coordinator, something that's more of a victims advocate, where they can reach out to him kind of walk them through the process, but

D.A. Michaels 1:07:40

you know, his line. And let me just say, female, if the person making the allegations is proven to lie, then they need to be held accountable. Oh, totally agree. Yeah. Because I know guys that have been falsely accused. And that's not okay. either. So I think

Keith McKeever 1:07:57

that's a Yeah, cuz is I reflect back because I was a supervisor, as well, I had female troops. And I, I'm very thankful that I had supervisors above me, who did the right thing. And they pulled me to the side and said, Look, your guy, your supervisor, you have female troops, under no circumstances do you go to the dormitory and step foot in that door, unless you have the first sergeant or another NCO with you?

D.A. Michaels 1:08:27

via email, that's

Keith McKeever 1:08:29

got to be a female. They're like, if you need to go talk to your troop, you go knock on that door, you do not step in there security cameras in the hallway, that that's your proof right there that you didn't do nothing, you know, exactly. So same thing with counseling and offices, you open up the door, if you have to have a closed room session, then you you know, you have a female in the room and you do the same room of the first sergeant or something, right? Where you've got other witnesses around, you've got a female in there. And I'm very, very thankful that I had those people that kind of look out for it. You know, the culture changed a little bit where people were like, look, we know this happens. But this protects you as the guy against this false accusations. Oh, totally. Absolutely. Because I had a trip that is I look back. She wasn't a bad troop. But some things happened. Mental health wise with her that now I look back on it. And I'm like, I wonder if there was a military sexual trauma that occurred and she never had the courage to come tell anybody while her and I got along all right. I I'm sick to my stomach that I wasn't a good enough supervisor for her to have the guts to come tell me

D.A. Michaels 1:09:47

because well, just they're having an internal This was me having an internal struggle on accepting the fact that it happened. It didn't happen. tons of lies as a victim, you just you just you don't want to deal with it. You just want to you denials easier. Not right. But it's easier to run. It's not good, obviously. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 1:10:11

is I just reflect back though. I mean, I just kind of felt like, Wow, I feel like I got along well, with everybody, I would have hoped that somebody would have felt comfortable enough to come to me. So we could go take care of this the right way. You know, and I also think that, you know, when you say one and four, I've seen the same thing. I've seen the same thing about the VA to that one and four women that go to the VA get sexually harassed before they even enter the door.

D.A. Michaels 1:10:39

Yeah. I've never had anything like that happen to me, but I will tell you this much. I'm gonna piss off some women when I say this. The older generation. And I mean, the Vietnam, the guys the older generation. Hey, sweetie, Hey, honey, is not frickin sexual harassment. That is just an old generational choice of words. Stop with the bullshit. Stop with the feministic. You know, crap. You know, because you're not helping our cause. Right?

Keith McKeever 1:11:21

Yeah, I've even had.

D.A. Michaels 1:11:23

I mean, he sexually harassed me. And I'm like, Well, what did he do? He called me sweetie. And I'm like, Good lord. Are you serious? I'm like, that is not sexual harassment. He's 70 years old. You know, I mean, he probably can't remember your name. I call everybody me and Sweetie, because I can't remember names.

Keith McKeever 1:11:44

Right? And I can't remember shit.

D.A. Michaels 1:11:47

Like, so it's like, so some of this sexual harassment at the VA. I'm like, I don't know about that. I have never had a problem. And I'm not defending the VA. Because I know shitty shit does happen sometimes at some location.

Keith McKeever 1:12:01

No, it does. To some degree, for sure.

D.A. Michaels 1:12:03

I'm lucky where I live. I got a great one. I got no complaints. But, um, but I've talked to other females have gone to the exact same one that I've gone to. And they're upset over really petty crap. And like, well, I'm an MST survivor. They should know better. I'm like, I'm an MST survivor. And I can take it for what it is an elderly man who is like in his generation that is perfectly acceptable. And you need to just walk around with

Keith McKeever 1:12:28

a big old sign or necklace on it says MST survivor. Like

D.A. Michaels 1:12:34

he's supposed to No, no, yeah. Yeah, it's still with no he was being offensive. Let's say you did have the sign that says MST, that generation of older adults, Vietnam, Korea war to God bless them. Not many left. But you know what I'm talking about the older generation. That is their generation. My grandpa was one of them. Oh my god, if if my grandpa were alive today, he'd be in jail.

Keith McKeever 1:13:02

Yeah, gonna be like,

D.A. Michaels 1:13:03

Hey, how do you got a nice rack? That was my grandpa. You know, I actually people would laugh. And he got away with it. You know,

Keith McKeever 1:13:11

I've seen it. Get away with that. Yeah, I'm involved with the Honor Flight Program. And I think one of the first to probably the first one or two trips I was on, we're eating lunch next to the buses behind the Lincoln Memorial. And a minute there and there was only a couple of guys left, everybody else in their guardians had kind of walked off. But we had a politician from our area, come out and meet some people. Well, there's not that many guys left. So they're shaking hands and talking and stuff like that. And everybody kind of gets done with lunch. And everybody kind of walks towards the front of the building and go to the reflecting pond and everything. And she's way ahead with her entourage. She's got her staff members who are on their cell phones. 24/7. And he made some comments about our elected official about her that made my jaw drop. And another one of the staff members of volunteers him and I just looked at each other like, wow, I cannot believe he just said that. And it was it was about a backside. It's like, she's era. I'm pretty sure she did. I think she was close enough to have heard it. But it was just like, wow, you know, you got it. Look, no filter,

D.A. Michaels 1:14:27

no filter at all. None. And and I joke all the time. I'm like, dude, they're like, so how's retirement, like, great. I said, I'm on leash. I have no filter at all anymore. I can say whatever I want. Yeah. So um, but you know, and so I am very, very forgiving of the older generation because I have so much respect for them. And I know they don't mean any harm. And I think that's what people really need to look at is what is the intent was the intent to demean you was the intent to humiliate you was the intent to insult you well, There was an if there was a derogatory intent there, then by all means you have a right to be upset. But if they're just, you know, an old guy having a good day and he's trying to flirt with you do get over it, you know, just just go, I pat him on the shoulder and give him a hug and give them a little thrill for the day. I don't give a shit. Survivor so I think that that's why I took all this. I'm like, Look, please don't put the hashtag on me. I don't want to be part of the Me too. Because I'm able to look at both sides of the fence, you know?

Keith McKeever 1:15:30

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, there's a lot of different. A lot of differences between generations, you know, this work where we're at in 2021 right now is just totally different than the way people talk to each other. In the 1940s 50s 60s 70s. Whatever. Here's a question.

D.A. Michaels 1:15:47

Who do you think was having more fun? What generally, what generation do you think was having more fun?

Keith McKeever 1:15:57

That's a good one. Um, I've always considered myself a history fan. And I got a funny feeling. They had a lot of fun in the 60s.

D.A. Michaels 1:16:09

Maybe I think the 50s would have been really cool. I've always kind of like dug the 50s. You know, because that's that's the war to veterans after they came back. And, you know, and and the poodle skirts and all that. I don't know, a lot of prejudice. Really, a lot of there was no politically correct. If you didn't like somebody or something. They said you kept on going. It was a free country. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 1:16:33

the problem was somebody's got a couple of fists to deal with it.

D.A. Michaels 1:16:37

Guys do have a fight and then shake hands afterwards, you know, I mean, now I don't even know Lord, everything offends everybody.

Keith McKeever 1:16:45

Yeah, nowadays kids don't even finish fights anymore. Or somebody brings a gun

D.A. Michaels 1:16:48

or weapon. homies with him with four people stand by them don't even Yeah.

Keith McKeever 1:16:56

That's a different different things for different, different generations. But speaking of different generations, this I want to talk to you about another nother part of your book that I told you before we started recording that really hit me because the similarities are insane.

D.A. Michaels 1:17:15

Yeah, so she's gonna stay in the room for a moment, but she doesn't want to come on camera, which is fine. Um, and I know where you're going with this. So she's just gonna hang for a minute, because it's about her. So good.

Keith McKeever 1:17:27

That it is. So yeah, as I was reading through the book, and you have one child, you have a daughter who's a teenager now I'm sure that's a quite quite interesting. But what she was born, she was born at 29 weeks and three pounds. Is that right? That's right. And that's where things is, I was reading the book, I was like, Holy shit, that that is hits so close to home to me, because my youngest was born at 29 weeks. And he was three pounds, three ounces. And now he is a little fireball of energy. Does he know he'll be nine this winter. So he is a, like I said a fireball of energy. Never stops super creative. Funny. I keep telling him he needs to be a comedian. Like, that's his calling in life. And he always shuts it down like, Nope, I don't want to be a comedian. And I'm like, but you don't understand how funny you are. It's not that he tells jokes. It's just, you know, the way he says things and the way he acts in life. But you know, I think that's, you know, what you went through is what a lot of people go through, you know, kids, medical issues, or premature birth, or all kinds of different things. And you did, did all this as a single mother. So just want to get your take on? How you made it through all that? How'd you made it through all that premium process? And how do you get through being a single mother because I know there's a lot of veterans out there that are playing a single mother single father role?

D.A. Michaels 1:18:52

Um, well, it kind of depends on which part like the part while she was in the hospital, God, plain and simple. You know, I, as you know, had had a beef with God for a really long time. And the day she was born, I made a deal with God. And I said, God, if you spare, I'll change my life, I swear. And I did. And, and I prayed a lot. And I had a very close friend who was a Catholic nun. She was actually in the ER with me when, you know, my daughter was born. And

Keith McKeever 1:19:25

it's quite ironic that you that that moment leads you to God and sister Jean was her name, right? Yeah. And she was there. She was the first one to be able to get to yet.

D.A. Michaels 1:19:34

Yep, exactly. And she was the only one even close. So it's one of those things where, you know, everybody gets put in a place for a reason. And, and I was, you know, of course, upset my mom wasn't gonna make it in time. It was rush hour traffic and none of my close friends and I called her and she's like, Honey, I'm a block away. I'll be right there. So she was in the O R when my daughter was born. And, and of course, you know, we were very, very close. And so there was a lot of a lot of prayers and It just was like, Well, as you know, being a premium parent, it's like you literally live minute to minute. And you know, you know more overcome one medical hurdle and then the doctors tell you about the next one. And so I look back now and I don't know how I did it as a single mom, other than I just, I cried a lot. I prayed a lot. My mom had had a stillborn before me. She couldn't handle it. She couldn't even go to the hospital. I was really like, as far as the hospital goes, I was really on my own. And, and I just I just did I don't know how likes to put it. I mean, like, I felt like, if she's if she's fighting for her life, I'm gonna fight for two. So I was a very, very involved mom. I was there every single day, except for five days when I got a cold and they wouldn't let me come visit her and I was just like, cried for five days. That would be the head cold. I'm stupid head cold, and I couldn't even go visit. And it was Thanksgiving. I'll never forget it. And you know, we were getting invited places Thanksgiving dinner, and I'm just like, I couldn't get off the couch. I mean, I was just like, so sad. Oh, and this year so bad, you know, but and then, you know, finally she got to come home. And then it then it was just the joy of finally having her home. Yeah, she came home. She came home and we joked about it because she came home on a heart nappy monitor with the thing and if she stopped breathing or whatever, so like, I joked, I'm like, yeah, I gotta be anywhere. There's an outlet. My kid has to stay plugged into the wall. But

Keith McKeever 1:21:27

I kind of chuckled at that part, too, because my son had a little thing to just go run across the chest. Yeah. I think he only had it for like two months, something like that.

D.A. Michaels 1:21:35

That's about what's that hovers for too much. And it was every time she she bared down to poop. That was what it was like, my kid literally fell off alarms. When she had a dirty diaper. It's like, Well, you were gonna during diaper, let's go. Because I mean, first you freak every time the alarm goes off. After a while you start to figure the routine. And you're like, oh, no, it's about that time. You know, gotta go change the diaper. But I mean, it's just yeah, you literally just take it one day at a time. And you remember the doctor's appointments. I mean, that's all you do. For the first two years. It feels like his go to doctor's appointments and monitoring and, you know, developmental progress and milestones. And, and I had there was a program and we're in Florida, and there's a program card Part C. And they were good. They sent occupational physical therapists in the house to do therapy and all that stuff with her. So, um, what? Oh, she's telling me stand up straight. Sorry. So sometimes we can have a teenager and so she is going to be very soon. 16 Whoa, and five foot seven and a size 11 shoe? For ladies. Not will not because it's hard to find shoes.

Keith McKeever 1:22:50

You know what, I feel that I have wide feet. And it's hard to find why? I can under I can relate a little bit.

D.A. Michaels 1:22:57

Yeah, I mean, she's, she's been on swim teams, she's played volleyball, she, you know, she didn't have it easy in the beginning. And back then we didn't have support groups. i Good. I think that's the one thing I would have given anything for a premium support group because we didn't have Facebook, we didn't have social media. You know, that all came out shortly after, I think when she was a toddler is about the time that I'll hit that hit. And, but at the time, like the only, like, everybody was everybody was always calling, you know, wanting an update. So I would send out daily, even the people will blog on Facebook or whatever. Now, I sent out daily emails. You know, it was like a big group email. Okay, here's what we did today. And that was you know, now that I think about it, that was probably really cathartic as well, because again, writing, you know, and, and, you know, not only did I give them medical updates, but it was also you know, able to pour my feelings out and my fears and, and I had a couple people who had had premature babies or who had been preemies themselves, way back in the day when humans didn't survive, right, calling me and telling me that it was going to be okay, you know, this is tough, but your goal is going to be okay. So, I mean, I just had a really good tribe is the best I can say. Cool program. Yeah.

Keith McKeever 1:24:09

Yeah, they've made a lot of improvements. I've got a what is the second third cousin, something like that? He's a few years older than me. And I know back when when he was born, probably around 1980 There wasn't a lot of those things, and he really defied some odds.

D.A. Michaels 1:24:24

March of Dimes is to think for it because March of Dimes after they cured polio only cure for polio. They are widely credited with the advancements that have been made in the neonatal within you know, treatments and stuff that premature babies go through so I'ma go Yeah, March of Dimes is what drove it who's responsible for dramatically increasing the survivor survivability of premature babies. So yeah, I'm I'm a big believer in them. I love what they do.

Keith McKeever 1:24:56

That's awesome because it's it's crazy. Rosie all of this sophisticated equipment and all the things that they can do with a child that's only, you know, three pounds or three yet, it's

D.A. Michaels 1:25:11

your micro payments are surviving now. 20 You know, 24 week, babies. I mean 22 Yeah, is a record 22 Now my daughter is she she follows this stuff. She's, uh, I want to go the march for she wants to go to march for life. She's, we're big pro life people. So she

Keith McKeever 1:25:31

that could. That's, that's a tiny baby. And I just remember now that my kids almost nine do all the touch and go moments. And I was honestly working most of the time. So my wife was one up there every day I'd get up there every other day if I could, you know, cuz I had a two year old as well, taking care of him and it's kind of a blur. All that process is a blur, but you got to it's amazing how much advancement there is. But she's right there next to you. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna left. Oh, she just left. Okay. Yeah, you got a question? Yeah, no, I was gonna ask, I was gonna ask you. So go ahead. Do you find that she is an extraordinarily scrappy, stubborn child? Find out about my son. He is the most stubborn child I've ever met.

D.A. Michaels 1:26:25

He wants to know, I swear I did not prompt this question. By the way. He wants to know if you're an extraordinarily scrappy, stubborn child. Because his son is I don't

think scrappy would be the good word for it. But I would definitely go stubborn. I definitely get that from both of my parents.

No, you don't you get it from being a premium. He's got I forgot about this because your doctor told me this when she was little. I'm so glad you brought that up. I've forgotten that. They say preemies do have they are very strong willed and they are very hard headed.

Keith McKeever 1:26:56

Oh yeah.

D.A. Michaels 1:26:57

It's a survival skill.

Yeah, like to be quite honest. Like a couple of my teachers at school. They are not very fond of me. Because I will call out bullcrap in class like, hey, that wasn't on the test. And we'll be like, Ah, yes, I was. And I was like, no page this and this. No, it wasn't and they'll be like, too bad. I still have it in this class. So that's not my problem.

She shouldn't she'll call people out. She don't have problem with it. That's disrespectful. Yeah, definitely. Respectfully, but she's not afraid to call BS. Oh, man, let me tell you, it's these teenage years. It's an adventure.

Keith McKeever 1:27:40

I bet. My My kids are literally right around the corner from it. I just wish time was slowed down on that. But so last last thing I want to talk to you about I don't know if he's still in a room here. I'm assuming it's a heat. I don't think he really said in the book. It's faint. There he is.

D.A. Michaels 1:27:59

Yeah, I was gonna say I know he is. He never leaves my side. He just blended in with the dark carpeting. You want to see him?

Keith McKeever 1:28:06

Oh, that was just I figured he was probably still in the room there. Yes, he's awake. We put him up on camera. We have first dog on camera. There you go. There's there's the star the the last couple chapters of the book right

D.A. Michaels 1:28:15

there. He's like, I don't like cameras. He's kidding. Of course. There you go. There we go. Mama scratches. Yeah, he's all happy about it. It's all good. You might go boy, are you?

Keith McKeever 1:28:27

You know, great. I think it was couple chapters that are covered in your book. They're kind of talking about St. and the struggles of dog training and temperament and stuff like that. So I figured I asked you, you know, what, what advice would you have for somebody who is looking to go to a service dog route? Oh, and what to look out for maybe?

D.A. Michaels 1:28:46

Okay, well, let me let me preface it with I got lucky. I got lucky in that I didn't go looking for a service dog. I was gifted a dog by one of my brothers who knew I was struggling. And I needed a project and boy, girl project. Yeah, no doubt about that.

Keith McKeever 1:29:03

And I was worried about

D.A. Michaels 1:29:05

and I don't even know that I could still give it proper, you know, credit pieces that deserved there are no words to describe it. Right. So I found a really good trainer locally. And, um, and that is, was good in so many ways. Number one, I don't know who learn more if it was me, or if it was the dog and I think it's safe to say it was me. A lot of times it's not the dogs in the training. It's the humans because we don't know how to communicate or read our dogs. So the first thing I learned was how to read my dog which I was doing correctly. And then I learned how to almost predict what he was going to do before he did it so I could correct it before it happened. So an a good dog trainer will teach you how to do that. Now I wasted a lot of money on a couple crappy dog trainers who were all about themselves and making money and one of them went as far as telling me oh your dog is dangerous and you know he He's gonna kill somebody and you know, you'd be best to just give them to somebody who knows what they're doing. And that was, that was an insult big time. And then I kind of stopped for a while going, what am I going to do now? And then I found the good one. So, find a good dog trainer, vet them, don't just believe, Oh, here's one right here, Yellow Pages, Facebook, whatever. Talk to people who've actually use them, get vet them, you'll save yourself a lot of frustration and money and time. Okay. That's for any dog, especially a big dog. Right? Because they're strong. And when they get bigger, if you don't know how to control your dog, something bad is going to happen. Right?

Keith McKeever 1:30:42

So that's a good point. Yeah. So um, we're pretty big.

D.A. Michaels 1:30:46

Yeah, yeah. And strong. You know? Or, if you can't get your dog to recall, like mind get out of the house loose all the time. Because they like to go, be ye Bye. I can't say the words. But you know what I'm saying?

Keith McKeever 1:31:02

Ya know, to pick up on those keywords, yo, yeah, like, yeah,

D.A. Michaels 1:31:05

so um, they, they're used to going with me, and there's some times I can't take them. So especially him because he's used to going everywhere with me. So you got to be able to recall your dog, you have to, and that means, you know, no calm and they actually do it immediately. Um, so the first thing I say is for anybody wanting a service dog, don't risk getting your own dog, and then trying to turn it into a service dog. Again, I got lucky, real lucky. What I did is not the norm. There are and there on my website. There are nonprofit organizations that are Professional Dog Trainers, for veterans with PTSD and some for first responders with PTSD as well, that will donate specially trained service dogs for them. One of them is good canine Academy out of a task at tasks Texas and the other one is brothers and sisters in arms out of Louisiana. And he in the one in the Louisiana. Deb is her name, she has now got students that have branched out and started their own places, but I I'm not well versed enough. But I can tell you that there are plenty of places out there that are nonprofits, they rescue dogs, they vet the dog, some of them make great therapy dogs, some of them are emotional support animals, some of them get donated to police departments, or airports for bomb sweeping. And then some of them are great service dogs and the dog's temperament is tested. And these that's what these people do they know how to do it. And then, and then they got to find like, if you're a veteran, and you need a service dog, and you're having trouble with night terrors, or, or you'll, you'll fill out an application explain what you would as you you're looking for the dog to do for you. And then they'll talk to you. And this will take a little while because they're want to make sure that they find the right dog for you and the right human for their dog because they're very attached to their dog. They put a lot of time and work into these dogs. Right.

Keith McKeever 1:33:13

Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Anything? Yeah. I really, really like the perfect match.

D.A. Michaels 1:33:20

Yeah, yeah, you get in and it takes time to talk. It's not like you went down to the shelter and adopted a dog. It doesn't work like that at all. So

Keith McKeever 1:33:29

there's a lot more headaches then. Yeah, you can imagine doing that.

D.A. Michaels 1:33:33

So yeah. So there'll be zooms or there'll be phone conversations and they'll get to know you better, and then figure out what you need. And then they'll start looking if they don't already have a dog that meets those requirements. They'll start looking for a dog. Now the lady Linda that I deal with, with good canine Academy at Texas. She rescues dogs all the time. She breeds dogs, she knows breeders. She also gets the how do you say flunkies out of the military working dog Institute out of San Antonio. They're too sweet to be military working dogs, but they make great service dogs, right? Um, so she gets she works a lot with them as well and gets a lot of Molly's. Most of her dogs are Molly's. But if you want if let's say you're allergic to dogs, and you need a non, you know, poodle, for example, or a Labradoodle, or something hypoallergenic, you know, she knows breeders, she knows everybody. So she if she doesn't have it, she knows where to find it. Right? I know a lot of veterans that have been taken for a lot of money where they put deposits on on dogs, and then three years later, they still don't have a dog because for whatever reason, you know, and those, those are scams. So I tell veterans all the time, do not pay 1000s of dollars for a service dog. Don't do it. Don't go get a dog or don't take the dog you already have that seven years old or five years old, and then take it to some trainer and say I want my dog to be a service dog. You really do need to start these dogs young

Keith McKeever 1:35:00

You know, what did you'll say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, you can say, but it

D.A. Michaels 1:35:05

takes so much time to teach them that by the time they really learn now they're old. So you want to get them while they're young and at least get the basic obedience out of the way. And then start working on the more advanced stuff right now with me the reason I say I got lucky, my dog does everything, almost everything for me naturally. Like when we were doing our obedience classes, that instructor would be like, Why doesn't your dog face forward like all the other dogs? Because you know, when you're walking your dog and your dog, and you're walking along, and then when we would stop, and we would say, set, my dog would do an about face, and he would sit and point the opposite direction. And the instructor didn't know I had PTSD did not hit MST, you know, didn't didn't know me that well, yet. He later on he learned but at the beginning, he didn't know. He's like, whatever you're doing, why does he want to face I said, he always does that wherever we go. Whenever I stop, he turns around, he faces the other direction. Well, then I talked to somebody who didn't know about service dogs. And they were like, Oh, he's covering your six, he's doing it naturally.

Keith McKeever 1:36:09

There was a peace of mind, you just don't realize.

D.A. Michaels 1:36:14

You just knew that. Because I don't like when people sneak up behind me. He naturally knew to turn around and cover my six. He wasn't taught that. So I told the trainer, please don't correct that. He's covering my six structure was kind of like because he's used to training law enforcement dogs, which is always forward, right? And like, he's, he's covering my six, he's got my back, I don't want to correct that. He's like, Okay, if you don't wanna correct or we won't correct it, fine. And then as time went on, I'm like, he sleeps with me. Um, he never leaves my side. I couldn't go out in public, I couldn't do crowds. i Perfect example is I went to the Dan Crenshaw summit over the weekend with my daughter, the youth summit in Houston. And it was a they allowed me to go into the room and sweep it before they let anybody in. So we knew where the exits were. And so when we went inside, and it was very, very crowded, and the music was loud. And don't get me wrong, I was having a blast. I was meeting people that are just like, super epic, cool people like Dan Crenshaw, and the guys from black rifle coffee, and Evan and Matt best, and there was some really cool people there, right? And on Facebook, I was just, I was having a great time. But then all of a sudden, the crowd moves forward, and I suddenly found myself sandwiched in. And I felt my anxiety go up. Because I don't like that I need I joke. I go, Dude, I was social distancing. Before it was a thing, right? So you know, I need my I need my bubble. So I gave him the word. And he immediately knew how to get me out of there. And he got me straight to it way before my anxiety got the best of me, all I had to do was stick out for a few minutes, catch my breath, ticket, you know, and I was able to go back in and I just made sure I didn't get the middle the crowd again, I just kind of stayed on the outskirts. But before I couldn't go to a mall, I couldn't go into a movie theater. I couldn't like without my anxiety being so bad that I could not enjoy myself after a while you're like, Screw it, I just don't want to go anywhere you into becoming a homebody, right. So, um, he naturally did a lot of this for me. And it was very small things we had to teach him, like the word fit. Okay. Um, that's how he knows, I want to leave. And he'll take me over to it. So

Keith McKeever 1:38:35

wow, that's, it's interesting to see the insight on how it kind of affects your life. I've like talked to a couple of people who have service dogs, because unfortunately, it's still kind of rare, relatively rare, because it's difficult, find the dogs difficult find a good trainer, the time time to get them trained

D.A. Michaels 1:38:55

the money a lot of people think it's the money, you know, and that's unfortunate, but I don't know if you know this or not, I posted about it. They just said that there's been a bill for a long time that was written. So this isn't any new bill. But it's been stuck in how though write a bill and it takes forever to get to the floor. Okay. And that's gonna bail that's been written for the VA to start investing in funding for PTSD service jobs for veterans. And they finally got it to the floor recently. And it went through and the President signed it not even about a couple weeks ago. So the the way I understand it, the way it's going to work as I went because I went to a conference about it is the VA is going to start funding for service dogs for veterans. And it's it's kind of like a let's try this and see. So they're going to give it like a time period. Follow up with their veterans see how the dogs have had effect on their lives. Have they improved their lives, how have they improved their lives? And I'm sure it's going to be like, you know, like I say a two year timeframe and then get more money and then more two more years and then eventually it'll become hopefully perfect. Minute, but the VA, you know, they did sign a bill to get the VA to at least consider, you know, funding it, which is going to help a lot of dog trainers who are in this business and spending their own money and relying on fundraising and, and that's where my money goes. So like I tell people, like I'm not trying to get rich on my book. We've got challenge coins and tease me I'm wearing my T shirt right now, you know, we designed some T shirts. Anything we can think of that will remind veterans and first responders Hey, you're not alone, you're not the only one. We've all got some some bad scars and bad memories. But you're not alone. You need to talk to somebody, you know, not if not a therapist, a buddy, a friend, somebody, you know, don't keep letting the shit keep you awake at night, you know, and I have had people call me at one o'clock in the morning, and I will take that call. And it's just to listen, you know, and we need to be there for each other until the government does a better job, honestly. So

Keith McKeever 1:41:00

I've said that for a long time. Nobody. Yeah. The government says they care about us, civilians say they care about us. But at the end of the day, it stops short, somehow, we have to take care of each other, we have to be there for each other do

D.A. Michaels 1:41:16

and I don't think that it's that everybody's failing us. I think it's that we understand each other better. So for us, it's for no for me, and I don't think I'm alone and there's a lot of is trust, well, I don't want to talk to some civilian, they don't understand they don't get it, we're speaking a language that's over their head, they don't understand the bureaucracy and the red tape, they don't get it. So we don't want to go through the effort of explaining it, when I could just call you up and speak the language, you know, the way it is. And you you're gonna understand it, because we have that, that that and we have that language, we understand each other, you know, so I think definitely

Keith McKeever 1:41:50

a missed a miscommunication there somewhere. When you talk to civilians, it's really hard. I'm in the real estate industry, a lot of my competitors, co workers, whatever you want to call, and we have to work very closely together. But we're competitors at the end of the day. A lot of them probably know that I'm a veteran, but they don't know where I've been and what I've done, right, we kind of keep the stories to ourselves and share it amongst each other. But I had an incident and a few weeks ago, I was in a bar with one of the guys I know real well. And he started asking me some questions. And I had a few drinks in me. So I tried to kind of start telling some stories. And I, I just it was it kind of felt good to kind of educate a civilian a little bit about my story, but it was like labor some, in a way, just kind of tell the story like, in a way that they'd

D.A. Michaels 1:42:43

lost that. So and that's what editing my book was like for me. Yeah, so when I, when I sent my book off to be, you know, edited by a professional editor, she would read line, or it was Google Docs, but she would highlight areas and be like, civilian is not going to understand this, you need to like plain language it because to me, it was plain language, because when you're typing, and I can type 100 words a minute. So while I'm typing, and it's just flow, and, you know, I'm, it's in my mind, it's plain language, but then I need an editor to look at it to say, highlight an area and go okay, explain this. And this is an area you need to expound on that everybody in the real world knows what you mean by this. So I would take one simple sentence, it would become like a half a page to explain what that one sentence really meant. You know? Yeah, so and I was talking, it's funny I was talking to. I was talking to a team guy, buddy of mine the other day, who knows Marcus Luttrell really well, who was able to have this conversation with Marcus. And it was the same thing. Because the team guy asked Marcus Dude, why did you go on and on and on about this? And Marcus is like, I know, man, he's like, but the public doesn't understand this stuff. We're Team guys, we do. But if the book is going to connect with civilians, you have to put it into a language they understand. And it is it is sometimes a bit tedious, but it's necessary if you really want your message to get conveyed clearly. Well, we

Keith McKeever 1:44:15

need to clear messages, because we need to break down that invisible wall, but it's between the veteran community and villians. There's no way they're ever going to completely understand us. But if we what I said earlier, we have to look out for each other. And I I guess you said civilians aren't failing us. And I agree they're not failing us, but they're just not maybe equipped enough to help us enough.

D.A. Michaels 1:44:43

They don't help the right way. They don't know what they don't know.

Keith McKeever 1:44:47

Right. And I've been, you know, we've met in clubhouse. And I know we've been in some rooms where there's been civilians in there and US vets are there just talking about stuff and I've heard it They're like, You know what, I really appreciate all of you being honest and telling your stories telling your truth. And they're like, I, I understand that military and veteran community better now. Yeah, that's a good it's one person. That's one more.

D.A. Michaels 1:45:12

Yes. And I've been able to do that in some rooms, as a law enforcement officer with people who hated cops. And, um, if I shut my mouth, and I, all it takes is one person in that room to say, no, she has a right to speak like everybody else does, because I've been bashed and beaten up and verbally just like, torn, you know? And then depends on my day, sometimes I have the patience for it. Sometimes I don't, you know, but, um, because I've and the thing is, I don't go into these rooms looking for it. It'll be one of those cases where the title of the room was a little misleading. And I was going into something and didn't know what it was kind of a deal, you know? And I'll tell them straight up. Look, I apologize. I thought this room was about this. And obviously, it's not. But since we're on this topic, and I've got a little bit of experience with it, you mind if I, you know, chime in. And as soon as I tell him a cup, it's like, I'm the enemy. I mean, I'll Mattamy like, wait a minute, I'm like, Look, we can sit here and hate each other. But we're never going to make progress. I said, I would like to build the bridge. I said, if you guys want to make things better with us, and we want to make things better with you. We're going to have to communicate at some point. I said, so I'm going to give you the opportunity to ask me anything you've ever wanted to ask a cop asked me anything. Why do we do this? Why do we do that? I said, I will tell you the truth. And I said you may not like it. But I promise you, I will tell you the truth. And I did that a couple times. And I actually got a couple guys who said oh my God, I wish I would have had this conversation with a cop a long time ago. He goes, now what you're explaining makes sense. And so then later, I'll go into a room and if that goes in there, and it happens, I'll go no, no, no, no, Donna's cool. Listen to what she's got to say, you know, like she's for real. And I'm like, yeah, guys, like, I don't have a dog in the fight really anymore. I'm retired, you know, but I hate all this hate that's going on? Because it's not fair. You know, am I saying every cop is good? Of course not. Then nothing is perfect. There's bad apples in every bunch. But I assure you are not the percentages that you think they are. Right. So

Keith McKeever 1:47:14

absolutely. As always, there's bad apples in every bunch. I saw the military to civilian. I know you've seen your fair share of it. That's that

D.A. Michaels 1:47:23

would be. Yeah. And I used that analogy in a room one time and I was triggered and I was hot. And I was pissed. And I actually left the room pretty upset. And somebody reached out to me is like, Hey, are you okay? That was that was not you? And I'm like, Yeah, I got a little trigger, you know, and I had to like, walk away from it. But I got pissed. And I said, you know, I said, Look, I said, You guys labeling all cops because of one asshole would be like me saying all men are rapists. Think about it. Right? And one. Yeah. So you can't do that. That's not some fair to humans as a whole. You know? Am I saying be naive to trust everybody? Of course not. But you can't sit there and say all cops are assholes, because you've had a couple bad encounters. And if and, you know, in my book, I went into law enforcement. Having a hated cops earlier, I was one of them. I didn't I thought they were all a bunch of American bullies. And then I met one that was a really cool dude, who opened my eyes and I got to see what it was like on the other side of the fence. And I realized it wasn't at all what I thought it was, you know? So we just like the military sometimes you got to put on a facade of being tough, but that's just because you're being guarded. You're not really being arrogant. You know what I mean? You're it's more of being guarded until you feel comfortable letting your wall down to say okay, this is a good guy This isn't somebody that wants to kill me. Because we're we are we're literally practically programmed into thinking just like when you guys go to the to the down country, like you just another you're surrounded by people who want to attack you. Well, we have the same mindset that it's here on the US soil, every traffic stuff we make, we assume this is a bad person until we know otherwise. It sucks. And that's what makes us jaded the way we are. But I mean that's what also keeps us alive.

Keith McKeever 1:49:17

That's true. But we got to we got to break down the walls because I've never seen a transparent wall before. Right? You know if there's a wall in front of you, you can't see what's on the other side. And although

D.A. Michaels 1:49:29

I really would like to see that wall get finished along the Mexican border just saying

Keith McKeever 1:49:34

I guess that was kind of semi transparent. But you know, you can't see what's on the other side of a wall so you can't you can't sit on this side and say that you know exactly what the other side is. Right? There's there's a whole nother person on that side. There's there's things you don't know. And we got to we got to take those walls down and realize it. We're all human beings. We all put our pants on roughly the same way. Yeah, you know, you put your, you put one leg in first and the other leg or whatever. But speaking what you want a funny story? Sure, right.

D.A. Michaels 1:50:10

So as I mentioned, we went to the Houston over the weekend, the Crenshaw youth summit, you know, it was all my daughter, you know, she's just, we tried to go for like two years since COVID. Hit it kept getting postponed, we finally made it. So my daughter got on the elevator to run, go get something or whatever. And she goes back running into the hotel room. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, guess whatever the elevator with that. I'm like, I'm guessing somebody important. She goes. I'm like, really? I'm

like, I didn't have my book for him to sign. And I'm like,

she was moving. Oh, well, she says he was wearing shorts and flip flops. And I started laughing. But she says, she said, I said, Well, you know, did you talk to him? And it was just the two of them on the elevator. She goes, Well, there was no like security around him. He said, honey, he's a Navy SEAL. He doesn't need an entourage of security. And I'm sure you can tell themselves in the elevator, you know. And apparently, he only came down to our floor to get a soda out of the vending machine. So it was like just for two floors. It wasn't like a big deal. And she's like, you're you're you're Dan Crenshaw, I think is Yes, I am. Choose. But but you're in shorts and flip flops. Yep, pants on one leg at a time, just like everybody else does.

Keith McKeever 1:51:26

Yeah, absolutely. Buddy. Awesome. Well, Donna, I appreciate you coming on here. Very happy to have to help highlight your book and the stories that are in it. You know, it was it was awesome to read through it. Especially the parts that were funny. Yeah, the parts are really premium stuff. And

D.A. Michaels 1:51:48

yeah, my personal favorite is Welcome to the Jungle. That's my favorite chapter. Yeah, the Sundays in the jungle. Never forget that as long as I live.

Keith McKeever 1:52:00

It was not difficult really to picture that you can read some books and you can picture picture the situation in your mind, you know, beauty of Britain books, right? You can picture how you want. That one was a little easier to picture. And so why? Because

D.A. Michaels 1:52:15

because the environment was so harsh, that I remember every miserable moments of it. But I you know, I would not trade that experience for anything in the world. Because if I prove something to myself that I I can. I had the fortitude to get through the most miserable situations. And looking back on it very, very funny ones, you know, because I was the new guy. I was the fng. So the pranks got pulled on me. So um, yeah, it was. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 1:52:44

it's gonna happen.

D.A. Michaels 1:52:45

It's a good memory. It's a good memory. Awesome.

Keith McKeever 1:52:49

Well, uh, yeah. That would have been very interesting to be there and see that it's like a fly on the wall moment. Right. But uh, Donna's book, you can get it at courageously broken calm. She's got t shirts, you said coins. Think you got

D.A. Michaels 1:53:05

tumblers or

Keith McKeever 1:53:07

sorts of further words, somewhere in the back of my mind,

D.A. Michaels 1:53:09

we have patches in in production right now. They're not available online yet, because they're still in production and have been designed. We're always looking for something that new that we can put out there that you know, will spread the message that the message is to erase the stigma of PTSD. That is the mission to erase the stigma. And to let vets and first responders know, there is a lot of help out there that you can get on the down low. without the fear of repercussions of your agency. There. There is hope. And there's a lot of help, you just got to know where to find it. So we have a resource page, listing those places on my website as well.

Keith McKeever 1:53:45

Yep, that's awesome. My I've got resources on my my website as well, I know there's a ton of us to do. So go check out mine as well. I've got my scroll at the bottom battle buddy podcast dotnet, you can go there, check out my resources. I'm not gonna lie. And we'll check out Donna's and see if there's some I can add to mine because I'm all about sharing resources to help.

D.A. Michaels 1:54:03

I'll do the same thing. So that's where my proceeds go. By the way. I don't know if I mentioned that my proceeds go. At the end of the year we figure out what the profit is. And then we cut checks to these nonprofits that are that are helping our veterans and first responders so I'm not like I tell people I'm not trying to get rich. I'm just trying to go for I'm trying I'm obviously trying to make a profit so that I can help others with it. That's that's that's my goal.

Keith McKeever 1:54:24

As NASA that's a darn good goal. Yeah, because a lot of people need help. So help them go support it. Go buy a book, read, go buy a shirt, you know, outfit yourself, get a cup and put a drink in it. Throw on your shirt, read a book in a chair, then you're all in you're all decked out and ready for it. Exactly. So thanks again, Donna. So much put you in the back room here while we wrap up the show. Okay,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai