Tough Transitions
One thing ever veteran must go through is the transition process. For some its rough, for others its smooth sailing. For Navy Veteran Jeffrey Hall, it wasn't smooth sailing. With multiple failed relationships, mental breakdowns and more. Lucy for him he summoned up the courage to fight back against these challenges to succeed and now share parts of his story to educate and guide future veterans on how to navigate their transition process.
Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:
Transcript from Episode 80 with Jeff Hall:
Keith McKeever 0:02
Hey, welcome back to another episode of battle buddy podcast, you're going to really want to tune into this, especially if you're in the military and you're looking to transition. Anytime, you know, maybe the next six months, year, at least, preferably probably a couple of years out, you might want to pay attention to some of these things, because conversation today is all about transition, and some of the problems and issues that can come up with transition. So my guest today has been through quite a few of them. He's going to share a lot about things that he went through, hopefully save you a lot of headaches, and whatnot. So we'll just dive right into it. Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever.
Welcome, Jeffrey, welcome to the show.
Jeffrey Hall 0:44
Thank you. Good morning. Thanks for having me on the show.
Keith McKeever 0:47
No problem. I'm excited to talk about this, because this is something that every veteran goes through. And I guess I should probably preface this just because I know some of the topics might be a little stressful for some people to hear. So I'll get you I'll give that that trigger warning. If for anybody, if you're struggling out there. You know, if you hear something in it, it kind of it shouldn't be. It's in the fields in one way, shape, or form right in on, you need a little extra help? Or are you feeling down? Remember the suicide prevention? Lifeline number is 988. Press one. So keep that scrolling here for a minute. But, Jeffrey, tell us a little bit about by yourself, you know Who who are you growing up? When you go to military those kind of things?
Jeffrey Hall 1:30
Yeah, happy to do so. So I grew up in Chicago. And like many of my fellow veterans, brothers and sisters, probably mostly on the enlisted side, we come from, you know, naturally, of course, have a diverse group of backgrounds. But none of us come from troubled backgrounds, broken families, you know, poverty, things like that. So my story was unique enough by that, right? I grew up in a project in Chicago, at a very early age had to really, you know, find creative ways to you know, put bread on the table, kind of raised my sister from age not since I was age nine, my baby sister kind of took care of home, you know, um, so there was that kind of upbringing. And then, as soon as I turned 18 Got out of home.
Soon after that, gotta have a family of my own, and know what the GD lives. opportunities were few. And one of the provide a future for my daughter, my family, I joined the Navy at 20. I started doing telemarketing first, before that I was doing telemarketing from age 17.
That just wasn't sustainable, especially for the goals that I have. So I joined the Navy at 20. And I knew that day that I signed up, I was staying for at least one. That was my plan. I think you're gonna have to work for somebody for 20 years. Who else is going to get my butt a paycheck for the rest of my life, just waking up to just 20 years of work. I mean, I can take the bulk weapons can take adversity, I grew up thinking those. So bring it because I need this, I need a career and I need a pension and I need something long term. Those are going to be like I said, not sustainable. So was my ASVAB score. Again, I had a GED, a score of 50 wishes. The recruiter told me I had two possibilities. I'm a corpsman or cook. I chose corpsman. And that really shaped everything that I've done since then, and everything that I'm doing now. And I wouldn't trade it now. So that so you see the 84 four behind me that's fleet marine force FMF corpsman. And, you know, so that was that's what probably one of the things I'm most proud of being a corpsman in the studio duties that I didn't know that I had several Marines most of that time, and then ultimately making cheap for the corpsman. Not an easy feat. But I was determined to do so. And I made a lot of sacrifices personal and otherwise, you know, to finally reach that a lot of deployments, you know, a lot of time overseas. You know, friends come and gone. No, some lost. Yeah. That's what, but I tell you what, being a corpsman took me all around healthcare, those 22 years, it just took me off from patient care to war care, clinical care, medical regulated, you know, logistics, career counseling, even recruiting in my last three years, I did health professions recruiting. I learned so much as you know, as a corpsman and that's where my you know, once I retired, I finished up my bachelor's degree in health care management and then went on to get a master's in health informatics. And you know, so pretty much my entire entire adult life has been healthcare.
Keith McKeever 4:56
Awesome. I would think that you probably made a pretty good choice there on the During the corpsman route versus the cook route,
Jeffrey Hall 5:03
I would like to say I think
Keith McKeever 5:05
my personal opinion you either liked the cooks or you hated the man alright. Food they got today is great man. They they got to good food or you walk in, you're like, What is this?
Jeffrey Hall 5:23
Either way, you wouldn't be able to decide.
Keith McKeever 5:25
Exactly like, you know, you want to hook up. You know, it's you don't wanna get on their bad side right? Or cooking or overcook it, you know, you call them is there for you? You know? You know, always there for you when you need them. You know, the cooks? I don't know. cooks out there. Don't send me no hate mail. We do love you when you cook good food. crappy stuff. You know, it's, you know, we like your surf and turf night. Oh, we look like you on whatever that sloppy, soupy mystery food night is, you know,
Jeffrey Hall 6:01
I never forget Green Eggs and spam and bootcamp.
Keith McKeever 6:05
Oh, that'd be terrible.
Jeffrey Hall 6:06
Yeah,
Keith McKeever 6:08
just like the omelet. Mrs. I always blew my mind. I love eggs. I love breakfast food. It's my favorite meal. I have no idea how some people like that. I still could not bring myself to eat that. There was no way. I will take him.
Jeffrey Hall 6:24
Oh, Mr. Rico remains in the field. He's good.
Keith McKeever 6:30
I will take them all because I had to good stuff with it. You know, had to fight with remember, I didn't have the pop tarts and Skittles and like I had all the extra goodies. Like the really good stuff in it. But the meal sucked. You know, than the spaghetti spaghetti with the BlackBerry cobbler. That's the best personal preference.
Jeffrey Hall 6:49
Nice. About the five fingers of Death.
Keith McKeever 6:53
I think there's a death the weenies? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know how they classify some of those. Mr. Uses food. I really don't. But you know, I guess it's kept us alive, right? Hey, it was chock full of calories we need to do? Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do. So, man. So like I said, in my intro, you know, we all regardless of how long you serve, we all go through the transition. You know, and it's, I've talked to so many people about transition, some people, some people get out, and it just everything clicks, and works perfect for them. Other people struggle. So what was what were some of your struggles, you know, to transition? Yes.
Jeffrey Hall 7:42
So first of all, my plan was to stay for 30 years, I did 22, my plan was to stay for 20 or 30. I ended up you know, I ended up having to get out at 20 to retire at 22. Thankfully, you know, I did have some education under my belt didn't have my Bachelor's yet. But I like sort of, unlike so many others who transition out I had a pretty good grasp of being able to, you know, go put together everything in my servers, record my education, my training my certificates, you know, my my evals fit reps, and been able to translate that into a resume that would make sense to a potential employer on the outside. There's so much to tackle just with that piece of it alone. And for the doctor tech class, that transition assistance class, you know, I get that they do what they can, you know, what they got, but I think they can put out, you know, the military can put a whole lot more thought and planning into that because you consider, you know, people like myself who come from, you know, well, many people will join when they're young, right out of high school, or, you know, and very, you're gonna you're very soon after that, and no, they don't have a whole lot of experience under their belts, you know, so they haven't, you know, probably written resumes and cover letters and things like that. They probably haven't thought about that. But next step after that goes into what am I going to do when planning for? You know, so it was, like I said, So the transition class, you know, they cover resume, you know, writing things like that interview, and they have people come and talk to us, and some people know, from clothing store, they will offer discounts on suits and things like that, they offer a workshop, and they'll during the week, and I think some weekends, you know, to help with with those services. But you know, we kind of really prepare it after the fact when you have a short trigger to pull when you gotta, you know, find a way to put bread on the table. And quickly, especially if you're not, you know, first if you're not retired with a pension, you need to, you know, find a job and short order, you know, you're kind of under the gun and you're not really focused that much on, you know, trying to learn how to write a resume at that point.
Keith McKeever 9:55
NIH has a lot of people that get out there have no plan or, yeah, they've gotten no medical retirement. At no time based retirement nothing, exactly. There's no paycheck for two weeks,
Jeffrey Hall 10:06
and many with our families to it. So, as a chief, you know, we know many young sailors, you know, under my charge, you know, and I will never try to talk anybody out of leaving the military, but I will sit down with them and agenda and really have a very, you know, intentional conversation with them. And, you know, and ask them to consider, you know, what they're making, both tangible and intangible, and what they're earning on active duty now includes their health care, that includes, you know, the, the BH, you know, and all these things, these things that, you know, they're what they're actually earning, and what they're being covered for, and what they would need to earn on the outside, you know, to match that, to at least at the very least match that to maintain the standard of living. And that's it, you know, we've got a calculator, just paper out, you know, we sit and we do the math on it, and we kind of, you know, map to their current skills, and what that you know, and look with, compared to what they would be qualify for any outside. And that, you know, you know, what, to try to not talk anybody into or out of, but it kind of it left them with an informed decision to make. If that makes sense, makes a lot of sense. Yeah, but everybody doesn't get that, you know, and I was, you know, and I had the luxury, you know, the blessing of being able to catch them, when they were thinking maybe six months to a year out, you know, from from transition. And then if they still were, they really weren't have their heart set on, you know, separating? Fine. God bless you and wishing you all the best in but they have, at least they can start planning for it. And, you know, with that new information that they had?
Keith McKeever 11:54
Absolutely, I've heard a lot of people say, you really should start planning at least two years out? Absolutely. I've said a few times, you should start planning for your exit from the military from the time you join. Yeah, you should be taking advantage education benefits are everything your isn't your job, build all these skills, track all these, you know, go to every course that you could possibly take all this stuff, right, you should be planning that with the end goal of knowing that eventually your time is up. I'm so glad to be taught, you know, but with purpose, you don't do your current purpose. Nothing, you know,
Jeffrey Hall 12:30
yes. I'm so glad you said that. And here's why. You know, because, you know, get on those little deployments, especially the ones you know, run and see, we got time to kill that we also have access to resources, internet, things like that, you know, catch him in the, you know, the various rooms, you know, playing video games and whatnot, and like, Okay, well, you know, what have you done, you know, prepare for your life after the maybe what happens if you get no medically retired, you're happy you get injured, you can't do it anymore. You know, how about what are you doing all through the education? What are you doing for your calls, you know, whose warfare designators designations, and, you know, and all the, you know, online courses they offer live, and they gave us access to courses from Harvard Business School. I took every one that I could seriously I took a number, of course, in my service record is chock full of you know, those kinds of courses. You know,
Keith McKeever 13:22
that's how you do it, though, you think forward of like, oh, you know, Harvard, why, why would you not take something from Harvard?
Jeffrey Hall 13:29
And it's free? Are you kidding? And then I used that the, was that the TA? The transition assistance? So no, no. Further Education on what it costs people not to do it?
Keith McKeever 13:43
Yeah, yeah. I was thinking, tuition assistance. That's it? Yes.
Jeffrey Hall 13:47
I use that every bit of that, that I could have, because I was always taught to classical University of Phoenix and some other you know, other universities, you know, all while deployed. Of course, they're working on, you know, get FMF surface warfare and air for air air warfare. I didn't waste any time. I guess I didn't know how much time I had.
Keith McKeever 14:09
Yeah, I mean, yeah, some people might have enough time to crank out two or three courses a semester, maybe it's just one. Maybe it's just one or two courses for the whole year? Who knows? Exactly, I think. I mean, an associate's degree, should take you about two years. So if you do a four year enlistment, you should be able to at least knock out your general education.
Jeffrey Hall 14:33
At the very least. Or at least all the court know for a bachelor's.
Keith McKeever 14:40
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's enough time if you really buckle down and do it, you could do it. You know, I mean, I finished my bachelor's degree off last year. It took me three years, you know, as a full time student, you'd already had an Associate's before that. Could take some extra courses and stuff like that. But you know, it's still too Three years full time while running the business, and this podcast and stuff like that, you know, it's like, so you can do it, you can do it when you're in uniform. Yeah, there's
Jeffrey Hall 15:08
no reason I have time. Absolutely no reason not to. Yep. So the theory, you know, there are a number of things that get in our way, again, when we come from varying backgrounds, and you know, and a lot of come from unstable, you know, house households and everything, you know, it wasn't instilled in a lot of us. And also, that wasn't like, you know, that's not really muscle memory for many of us that are transitioning that you know, many more things, you know, that far ahead. The, you know, some people just plan for the day or the next day. And that's one thing I like to impart upon our brothers and sisters intelligence, you know, plan, plan, plan, plan to fail to plan plan to fail, kind of thing. And it just gives you a one, it gives you more confidence that does, you know, as you not know, what the hell mode, you know, when that date does come for you to, you know, get out and have a reasonable amount of hope. And, you know, and confidence towards that next that next part of your life, that next chapter. But, you know, there's none of us are geared for so how do we, you know, really, you know, get that message across? You know, how do we reach, you know, our brethren, you know, at an early enough stage where there is not going to be as stressful as much of a stressful situation, when it's time to return to uniform?
Keith McKeever 16:35
Well, I think some of that goes on, you know, goes back to the leadership of our current military, you have to build systems and stuff like that. But I will say, I think it complicates things when you talk about the fact that most people enlist between 18 and 24. Yeah. And when you're, you know, when you're that old, you're an adult, you think you know, everything about life. And all there, you know, in hindsight, I could sit here in my late 30s, and tell you, I don't think I really kind of figured, you know, things really didn't click to me until I was about 30, a couple of years after I got out, you know, that I kind of figured out who I was as a person, what my mission and my passion was in life. Right? That was a couple years after I got out. I definitely didn't know at 22 or 23. But the mindset of somebody at that age typically is, Oh, it's fine. I got it, you know, I got plenty of time, I got my whole life ahead of me. You know, I know what's best for me. No, want to listen to the old guy in the room, right? Like, don't preach to me about like, what I need to do,
Jeffrey Hall 17:38
you know, ops keep that moving.
Keith McKeever 17:40
It's like, giving us advice, because we care and we don't want you to see you make the same mistakes we made, you know, yeah, it's, it's coming from a place of love, not not, you know, just kind of chastised somebody you know, and whatnot. But it's, there's challenges there with a
Jeffrey Hall 17:58
vision and to what we've conditioned ourselves for, you know, I again, I was always a caregiver, you know, so I always had a family from my mom from reasonable sister. So, my first family, it was a ready made family, I got my daughter at age 20, you got what her mom, married and mom, and then then went to another similar scenario right after that. So I just I was conditioned for that. So I was always working more for someone else and planning more for someone else's life. Unnecessarily, just my own, I always kind of was, you know, kind of geared to kind of thrive for to make sure everyone was able to provide for someone else, and work to help. You know, whatever, you find the drive, you find something to drive. Absolutely. And then so, come on to conditioning and then our comfort zone. So once with when I've reached a point where I was retiring, I was single. So I had to really fine, you know, had to dig deep and find other reasons to strike myself my whole life. And I gotta be honest, I wasn't as easy to do, you know. And we talked about, you know, mental health too, and, you know, and our upbringing and things that we experience, you know, and, you know, some of these things that go unnoticed, really can hold us back. A no and cause us to get in our own way. And I certainly experienced that, you know, I got in my own way quite a bit. You know, it didn't have to be as tough for me. I put on freedom on Roblox. And, you know, and, and there was a point where I, you know, I spiraled. You know, I had tremendous opportunities that came and went and, you know, and they were largely because of me the choices that I made, you know, but And ultimately, it led me to check myself into the VA. And I had, you know, I'm untreated Nanda. diagnose PTSD, and you know, another things. And it really gave me the chance to hit a reset button. And look at some of the, you know, the choices I was making the rod was making them, and they gave me the opportunity to actually just look at it. Oh, okay. And then once you because you're not aware of it, you know, then you're just gonna keep doing what, you know what you've been doing? Absolutely, yeah. And so I was glad to know, I'm really grateful that up to me, I spent months, several months in the DEA, world, Massachusetts. And it was just, it was eye opening, and I got a chance to see a lot of my brothers and sisters in that program. I really connect with them, but also got a chance to see that many of us recycled through that those same programs. You know, don't, you know, it's kind of like a becomes a vicious cycle, you know, some of us don't learn how to really move forward, it was my plan going in, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this once. Absorb it, I'm going to commit and submit to it more importantly, submit to, you know, what the hell do I know, because what I thought I knew got me here. You know, so now I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna listen to absorb and submit, so that I don't have to do this again. And I can move forward. And I set goals while I was in goals and have achieved since then. And this was in 2017. The summer 2017. That's where I spent my summer, so my summer at the VA. But invaluable, and that's something that no, the rest of society may not necessarily have access to, without having to pay, you know, an ungodly amount of money for,
Keith McKeever 21:41
I can't imagine what that would cost on that side.
Jeffrey Hall 21:43
Exactly. And then I have luxury, you know, again, it added blessing to having a pension, and on disability check as well, that I can, you know, coast off in a while, you know, who could afford to stop working for that long. Because you have to really commit and get submitted, you're in that program. And so
Keith McKeever 22:04
that's probably where you know, where you had success, though. Because you had, you had yourself in a position where you knew this is a one time thing, like I'm going in, and I'm ripping this band aid off, and it's gonna hurt. And but I'm gonna reflect it inward, and I'm gonna work on myself, and I'm gonna be out in one shot. Yeah, whereas I would make the argument as people are just, you know, recycling back through there, they're never really fully getting to that point where they're saying, Look, I got a problem, and I'm going to fully deal with these problems.
Jeffrey Hall 22:34
And they still know everything you got to do, you got to, at some point, you got to drop all that pride and doing whatever it is you care that you know, the ego. And just, you know, either I want to get better, I don't. Either I want to survive and thrive, I want to be here. You know, or not, I was 50 when I went through the program, and I just knew had I not, I want to see my 31st birthday.
I knew it. I just knew it, I felt it. And I like being here. You know, there's a lot that I enjoy about being here, even on my worst day. I'm grateful to be here.
Keith McKeever 23:11
Yeah, you got along, yeah, got a lot of life left to live and a lot of lot of impact that you can make on this world. And, you know, it's, it's sad that some people have the blinders on, and they never see that, you know, and they get to that point where they are gone too soon, or, or they see some issues, and then they go into the VA, and they just go cycle right back through it, because they're just not fully committed.
Jeffrey Hall 23:34
Or there's only one piece of that program they want, you know, when the time hits, and they need some somewhere warm to go. You know, it's just there a number of reasons. But you know, but from what I've seen, more often than not, it's not the reason that they're really wanting to just live a great quality of life. That's just, I need to get through this moment, I need to get to the next day. Or I need to get through this season. It's you know, short term thinking and short term planning.
Keith McKeever 24:12
Yep. Definitely a lot of people that go through this world like I can't, I can't imagine that. Just like not having some sort of a plan or an idea or, or written goals of like, where I want to be a year and if they're not written like I have in my mind. What I want to do with my life, yeah, what I want my legacy to be when I'm gone, hopefully, when I'm really really old and decrepit. When I can no longer move on my own, you know, living in a facility or something like that, I guess, but like, I don't know. I mean, I just see like, hey, there's still plenty of life left. I said, I'm in my late 30s. So I still have 30 something years till I retire. You know, and then I've got the you know, God willing 1015 20 more years As to go do retire people stuff, whatever that whatever that looks like, you know, and like if there's a lot of time left on earth to make an impact and meet people and experience things, like, I don't know, it's just me, in the back of my mind, I personally like, I look that far into the future of like, What's life gonna be like.
Jeffrey Hall 25:20
And so here's the thing, the beauty of the VA program is that it addresses these things, and it gives you the opportunity to set goals, you know, that you don't you have your, you know, your individual counselors, and you know, that will literally sit down with you, and, you know, and try to coach you into coming up with a plan, you know, just something that's gonna work for you, it's something that you're willing to commit to. And, you know, and I was fully committed by this, I want to X, Y, and Z, you know, it's one of the things I want to fix these two things I want to improve. These are goals I want to set and achieve. You know, and you know, so I was absolutely committed to that and had it written down and tick, tick them off one at a time. And I would just love it, you can't force anybody to do anything. You know, cliche, you know, leading the horse to water and everything, but, you know, how do you get somebody to embrace it?
Keith McKeever 26:19
That's, that's, that's a good question. I was thinking about asking if you had any advice on, you know, for those people who have gone through that cycle, like, how do they break that cycle, and start looking at the future, but I guess it's got to be something like really deep inside of you to just do like, Alright, enough, like, today's the day like I'm making changes? And it really is an answer. It's just got to be deep within.
Jeffrey Hall 26:42
Yeah, I mean, it can't hurt for them, you know, it will for us to have someone to connect with it, you know, that sort of similar path or have similar walks, kind of know, a battle buddy. Somebody who's got your back and is gonna, you know, kind of hold you accountable, you can hold each other accountable, you know, check in on each other. Hey, you know, so you said you want to do XYZ, you have these goals? No, how are you doing with that, you know, what's your plan know, for the next day, I think something like that would be would be helpful. Thing is
Keith McKeever 27:17
probably something that's really missing with a lot of people. When you probably don't have that battle buddy, you know, that you've served with or just anybody who did serve, or just maybe close family connections, or they, you know, ripped or shredded those family connections apart because of whatever, whatever their substance abuse issue is, or mental health issue or whatever, you know, they just don't have that person to lean on to that, that can hold them accountable. But we do tend
Jeffrey Hall 27:43
to isolate which thing. And we tell ourselves, oh, no socialism candidate has no idea what I'm going through what I've been through, I don't know what it's like to serve and all these things, or even walk my walk. You know, there are things we can tell ourselves. But if we can, you know, I'm sure if somewhere in our circle, whether closer or extended circle that I will venture to guess will care enough to follow up with us and check in on us and they're given the opportunity.
Keith McKeever 28:16
Yeah, why? Well, I think, you know, when you find that person, you found your battle, buddy.
Jeffrey Hall 28:20
Yeah. It may not be somebody who served, if we can open our minds a little bit and just, you know, embrace another another human soul.
Keith McKeever 28:33
Yeah, it could be I mean, it's, there's resources out there, I mean, outside of just, you know, mental health resources with the VA because it could be your counselor, it could be your spouse, it could be your parents could be you having an adult child, you know, but like, I've been doing through the VA health program, you know, they're all encompassing. I think I've met with my lady like seven or eight times, we still haven't made it through the initial packet of information. But we just talked about so many different things, and just a wonderful lady to talk to, you know, and it's just like, this is an example of just, I feel better. And it's not like it's a mental health thing, either. Like, we're just talking about different things, just, you know, weight loss, eating healthy and exercise and what's going on in my family, you know, dealing with different things, like it's, you know, the whole health thing. But it's impactful, just to have that one person that I could vent to that. I don't even know what this lady lives, you know, all I know her through is the screen. That's it. Yeah, we talk every, you know, three, four weeks, whatever. And if, you know, just kind of catch up, and I don't think she served at all, just just a civilian lady who works for the VA doing that, you know, and it's just, it's kind of helps to vet you know, you can find that person anywhere. You know, he said that, to me, that's just one of my people that I talked to that makes me feel better.
Jeffrey Hall 29:50
Yeah. Yeah, that's it that is so critical. You know, we're social species. You know, we're not, you know, We're not isolated creatures who isolate? You know, by nature. We need other people.
Keith McKeever 30:08
Yeah, but we do need to get to the bottom of it. But you know, that's just self isolation. That's such a huge one. I mean, I hear of that, or I hear people talk frequently. And I pick up on that, like, I think this person is isolated a lot. Yeah. And it's like,
Jeffrey Hall 30:26
it's safe, it feels safe, early, you know, then no one's gonna judge you or, or talk about whatever you do want to help, you know, if you're using or how much you're drinking, or, you know, what you could be doing better than, you know, for your own for your own improvement from your own life. You know, your judgment free, if it's just you.
Keith McKeever 30:45
Absolutely. Hard to like, tell, like, do you really do it. Like I give another example myself, but I work a lot in my office, my office is down the basement. Sometimes I'm down here, it may look like self isolation, but I'm actually working on the times I can flat out tell you other times, I'm self isolating in my basement. I'm not here playing video games, or get stuck on Facebook, or whatever thing that I got into, but like, this is my safe spot. This is where I'm at, you know, eight, 910 12 hours a day, some days. It's just it is, you know, sometimes it may be hard for people to see, because of their environment. Maybe it's maybe it's work, maybe it's a hobby that they do. But some of it, they do it because they you know, for a good reason. But I'm gonna spend a little extra time it's something that Yeah, that's really self isolation.
Jeffrey Hall 31:34
Yeah. You know, even today, you know, with all the improvements that I just say that I have made, I still have to be mindful of when I'm isolated. It's no easy thing to fall back into.
Keith McKeever 31:53
Absolutely. I've heard some places to where people like, Well, I'm just an introvert. Are you though? You know, I mean, people it's like, I know, this person is not an introvert, right? They've just got that personality. They're, you know, they're always happy go lucky, social when they're around people. And they're like, I'm an introvert, it's like, I don't know about that. Ya know about that? So, yeah, that's definitely some big issues in our community, for sure.
Jeffrey Hall 32:25
Yeah, but I'll tell you what, man, I haven't met a single veteran. This is not worth saving, and not worth keeping on this planet. And not worth embracing and loving and being grateful to him for?
Keith McKeever 32:38
Absolutely. You know, I think sometimes people just Yes. It's hard to say, you know, what people actually think about when they, unfortunately, analyze themselves, but then you get that desperate, you know, you might think that people don't care about you, or you don't have anybody, if you if you really stop and think about it, you probably do. You got people out here to care, we may not know you at all, and we don't want you to be gone. You know, we want you to, to get better go get the help and improve your life. And sometimes there's outside factors that can influence what happens to you in a person's life, for sure. Actually, there's also an element of you taking accountability for it, and pushing through and some things can be temporary.
Jeffrey Hall 33:25
Yeah. And I think the thing that's kind of important, you know, because, you know, the military life is obviously very rigid and a number of ways, you know, we've caught we will, will judge ourselves harshly. If we can learn to show ourselves a little compassion. And try not to judge ourselves. And just, you know, give ourselves a hug, you know, give myself that mental health say, hey, you know, remind ourselves or ourselves of the positive things we have done our achievements. I know, no matter how small it may appear, or feel, you know, I got my ass up this morning, I put my feet on the day. Get on, you might
Keith McKeever 34:08
be grateful every day you get to get up right. Now, how
Jeffrey Hall 34:11
about fiscal year, you don't want to have less than 1% of the population? who serve. That's an achievement. How many sperm did you get out to be here? Did you beat out to get here? You're a winner. You know, keep it simple, keep it small. But be you know, be proud and be of your achievements. Be proud of the fact that you're here that you're still here that you deserve that, you know, and there's somebody out there that will find you worth loving and embracing and being shown compassion.
Keith McKeever 34:46
I think it's funny that you mentioned the sperm because I've heard Gary Vaynerchuk mentioned that. I can't remember the numbers. But yeah, it's like it's astronomical odds that you even get born. Exactly for any person to get born. Higher than one. Yeah, no, right. It's like It's crazy no matter what you know, seriously, like when you're born. And in some ways in this world that we've lived in last was almost 40 years that I've been alive. Like, the fact that you didn't make it to being an adult is one thing. And if you're a veteran, you make it through, you know, you make the bootcamp and your tech school or at whatever you see school, whatever, whatever it's called. And then you make it to the operational military, and they do your for 620 years, you know, especially for you know, anybody who's deployed or, you know, done at a fairly dangerous job, stop and think about how many times you've almost died, right? That'll give me some gratitude real quick, be like, I'll probably die, you know, come pretty darn close to dying, you know, an exponentially larger amount than my civilian counterparts.
Jeffrey Hall 35:51
Here, here, here, here, and amen to that.
Keith McKeever 35:55
So having a gratitude, start your day with some gratitude, right? Yeah. That's a good way to start. So, you know, I know that there was some other things when we talked a few weeks ago, you know, the kind of little little things that you mentioned, I kind of want to get your take on, you know, one of the things that you kind of mentioned is, you know, we go in the military operations, tempo, you know, it's 1000 miles an hour. Oh, you get out, you're basically, basically stop and we go from 1000 to zero. Exactly. What are your thoughts, thoughts on that, because I think it's a huge thing that we need to keep in mind.
Jeffrey Hall 36:33
Thank you for mentioning that. Again, thank you, thank you for reminding me of that. Yes. So you know, there's high operational tempo, and everything we do is planning for the inevitability of war, you know, and so the drill is pretty much always poppin you know, sleep deprivation, go on days, upon days without sleep, and just like getting ready to go, what's going on what's going on, then, you know, it's always go, go go, and keeping a sea backpack and all that, and then next thing a few years, nobody around you is doing nothing that you got to do on the outside? Sure, you know, finding forest fires or something like that is gonna, you know, have you that kind of high, you know, sustained adrenaline rate,
Keith McKeever 37:15
even your high high, highly functioning, highly successful, civilians might only be operating it, I'm just picking an arbitrary number, but then on the operating 150 miles an hour versus the 1000, that you're operating it.
Jeffrey Hall 37:26
Exactly. And then so now, all of a sudden, you slam on the brakes. And so your condition, and now how do I keep that same excitement going? You know, so that's why so many of my are, my brothers and sisters turned to, you know, alcohol and substances and other risk taking behavior and other things, just kind of, you know, what, you know, to replace that, without really taking a look at it and finding, you know, maybe some healthy alternatives, you know, to get that, you know, that that rush, there are a number of other ways to deal with it won't put, you know, use yourself and others in danger. So, so yeah, and I guess I faced that too, you know, that, that was, that was part of my world until I was able to take a look at it and said, hey, you know, off the brakes, Jeff, find another way. But not everybody, you know, helps to bring some time. So we lose a lot of brothers and sisters, you know, suicide, or, you know, very sadly, or some kind of predicament or situation, they've gotten themselves into the hamster lives. This is something that definitely should be addressed in the whole transition process, and it is not. But I think it's critical to introduce that, and at least have it you know, as considerations and thought, you know, as people transplant the transition up, you know, those landmarks, you know, beware of these landmines. Here, some of the landmines, here's where they're at, you know, this is how we know, here's some ways besides stuff.
Keith McKeever 39:12
I was definitely one of those things that can happen. And I agree with you that they need to re redesign somehow. I don't know that I've got the answers on how but I think when it comes to that the easiest answer that I've got is develop a system to really lengthen the transition process somehow. Which I know is complicated, because, you know, when you get somebody out of the military or they're retiring, there's a finite end date to that. But then pull somebody out of those roles, especially the really high tempo jobs and ease them into more of a nine to five job. Maybe easing into, you know, well, I was The Air Force. So, you know, some of the services and stuff sometimes instead of wearing fatigues or dress uniforms, they'd be wearing like polo shirts that would say, you know, you know, the gym name or something, they would wear Khaki pant. It was a uniform of sorts, but it was more like a business casual kind of thing. You know, I thought about that transition as well, if you get people out of uniform in the taps program, you know, yeah, a different environment, a different tempo. Yeah, it will take a while I would argue that for some longer for some than others to even out that tempo and not require all that adrenaline and excitement and all that stuff. It's not a perfect fix. But something that was a few weeks few wants. I mean, look, you joined the military today. And I think the shortest eight and a half, what, eight and a half. I think the Marines are 13 weeks. Yeah, you're spending more than two months, completely relearning who you are, and being broken down and built up. We have a process for that on the way out.
Jeffrey Hall 41:03
You got three days.
Keith McKeever 41:07
And a handful of taps classes to learn how to write a resume and put on a suit.
Jeffrey Hall 41:10
So say those three days a tech class three short days ago. But no, that's an excellent point. Excellent point.
Keith McKeever 41:21
An eight week thing or 12? We think 16 weeks? I don't know. You don't want if
Jeffrey Hall 41:25
you want people. I'm sorry.
Keith McKeever 41:29
I'm just saying, you know, I mean, if you just had a long period, like that was like a civilian bootcamp. Right. Where I guess I've thought about it a little bit over over the years, but like, maybe the first few weeks you come in and in your uniform, you know, then you start coming in in your dress uniform. And then you transition to something like or maybe you just start off with just like khakis and a polo shirt, he's wearing the same thing. And then like halfway through the program, you get to start wearing whatever civilian clothes you want, as you get closer to that retirement date or Separation Date. But then, you know, those night shift guys automatically switch to a day shift everybody's their nine to five, you treat them more like a civilian job versus military. You're loving your leadership is wearing a uniform. Yeah, they still be in uniform, and maybe a position for them. I don't know. But where do you get civilian volunteers or something like that, where, you know, your day is semi scripted, and you just kind of stepping down?
Jeffrey Hall 42:26
I think that's awesome. That's an awesome idea. You know, because like I said, you know, when when you come off the street and to join the military, it's a two to three month transition, you know, starting within with the uniform change. Yeah, you know, hair cuts. Well, if you want to call it that.
Keith McKeever 42:46
Maybe for the ladies, for the guys, it's just straight off the call the haircut but I mean, there should be something and I would think basic economics and money, the money side of it would save the VA and a country a lot of money, combating veteran suicide and substance abuse and homelessness, if you gave more resources to try and curb that, if you did it right. during that transition process. It's I mean, unfortunately, we do nothing for those people that are already out. But you can do it for the future generations at least. Yeah, absolutely. better fighting chance of transition.
Jeffrey Hall 43:28
You know, that gives our service members of such a huge financial investment, and resource. You know, we think they work hard to find a way to take better care of these are their resources. So I think that will be an excellent plan to present.
Keith McKeever 43:46
Well, hopefully, we'll get some politicians that will listen to this, and they can make and make the changes in their own way.
Jeffrey Hall 43:52
I think you do, I think I think now's a good time for it.
Keith McKeever 43:57
I mean, you know, even if you kept somebody in service, or you know, you take somebody off of the books, the manpower books, you know, two months or three months earlier than what you expect. You don't let them take their terminal leave afterwards and whatever. I don't know, but you know, you're already paying them.
Jeffrey Hall 44:16
So they can be part of the terminal leave, maybe they can be incentivized to go through this program.
Keith McKeever 44:22
Yeah, absolutely. Come up with a way.
Jeffrey Hall 44:25
Absolutely. And we've got some smart people in Washington, the place that you know, military,
Keith McKeever 44:31
some, like that's not going to affect everybody, right? You still have people that will fall through the cracks and have those problems. It's not going to fix your mental health issues. It's not going to fix your physical health issues. But it could give you the right mindset, potentially, for transition. It can slow that tempo down. Can you ease you into that? That roll? I mean, I know. You take the uniform off. You've been wearing it for 22 years. You gotta go into into work wearing khakis and a polo shirt. Yes, it's gonna feel different.
Jeffrey Hall 45:01
Yeah. tremendously different. But I'll tell you what, give it building someone's confidence and giving them hope. I mean, that's the health care and mental health plan, you know, all to itself?
Keith McKeever 45:15
That it is that would have a tremendous impact. So, you know, it's, yeah, maybe somebody with power will listen to this sometime and, and make those changes and implement something, we'll just cross our fingers and hope. You know, unfortunately, most of the tap stuff right now, you know, it's all right about the Department of Labor, actually, which is why it's all focused on just employment, create your LinkedIn profile, get a suit, but how to do a job interview prior to resume?
Jeffrey Hall 45:44
Good luck. We're all counting on you.
Keith McKeever 45:46
Yeah, I know, right? Go do big things. So yes, but just one of the issues that we face, you know, another one I wanted to talk about, you know, you brought up when we talked before was relationships, married a couple of times. So toxic relationships. I know, that's not an uncommon thing for some people, you know, what, what can you share about what you've what you went through there, what people might be able to do that.
Jeffrey Hall 46:12
So I can speak for myself, and just speaking from my own personal experience, and just knowing that they're, you know, understanding, there are a number out there who've been, you know, had similar experiences, you know, not really knowing what a healthy relationship looks like. But even from growing up, you know, and I carry that into no personal romantic, intimate relationships, you know, just not really knowing what that looks like, or you know, how to develop and cultivate one, you know, it's there, there's a lot of barbed wire in there, you know, and it leaves scars, and I have stuck and, you know, leaves his own degree of PTSD, you know, we're, we're looking at that from, you know, from a number of different angles, as far as the whole PTSD detail, doesn't mean, it doesn't come just from our military experience, no combat, or, you know, all the traumas that, you know, many may experience while on active duty, or reserves, or whatever the case may be. It comes, you know, a lot of it comes from, within our own personal circle, you know, I've been married a number of times, I've got a few T shirts on that one. And these are things that I know, just hadn't, hadn't seen, you know, there are patterns, that if we're not made aware of, or become aware of, we just keep repeating the same things. And, you know, with everything else, like thinking, don't you stack that on top of whatever we experienced, while, you know, while serving it compounds. And it can leave us feeling bewildered loss alone, isolated, and ill, and then times hopeless. And so, finding, you know, so yeah, relationships are critical. I mean, a lot of us judge ourselves in our ability to maintain a relationship or even be in a relationship. Yeah, and, you know, I had to consider it wherever even needed to or wanted to be in a relationship for some point, because of what the, you know, the types of relationships I was choosing. And, and some of the dynamics of that, and, you know, and the impact on, you know, choices I was making as a result, you know, people can bring their own brand of toxicity to know, to you and your world and all of a sudden it becomes, you know, you become part owner. So, that's something to be mindful of, to, you know, who we're spending time with, who we're engaging with, you know, and who we let into our world, because not everybody, you know, is meant to be in our circle. Not everybody's meant to be, you know, under our roof or, you know, we don't spend time with every, you know, certain certain people that, you know, certain people can bring out the best in us. And there are others who can bring out the absolute worst in us.
Keith McKeever 49:03
Absolutely, you have to think about that, too. When you're transitioning. You're probably unless you're guarded, reserving your back, you know, like the homerun record, you're probably PCs in or moving back to your hometown, where you haven't been for four years or 20 years. You know, are those friends or family members, those connections you have back home? Are they are they the same person? Are you the same person? Is it is it wasn't a toxic relationship before that. You just need to just not entertain a relationship with them. Yeah. Yeah. Because you haven't been around for so many years, you know, tread lightly.
Jeffrey Hall 49:39
Absolutely. Or go somewhere else. I
Keith McKeever 49:43
was that.
Jeffrey Hall 49:46
Going back to my home and record was not really a consideration for me. Yeah, yeah. From from Chicago mortar rave. And new inlays became my home Have I spent you know, my last three years in the Navy here? I came here from Okinawa I've been looking out for five and a half years. But I just I fell in love with the area for a number of reasons there's a ton of opportunity here, especially if you're in health care. I mean Goodness gracious This is the health care Mecca and just my love of change the seasons blooming that definitely offers that but it also got me it gave me a fresh start you know, I don't think that going back home would have been the best thing for me
Keith McKeever 50:43
yeah, definitely not probably not a good thing for a lot of people. Yeah, so I mean I came back home but now I'm 45 minutes away from where I well the town that I went to high school but 25 not 25 minutes away from the house I grew up in 45 minutes away from this volunteer I don't go to that town very awesome. I got nothing in that town for me you know and every time I drive through I'll be like wow, this town looks different than what it did. I wouldn't want to raise my you know, I want to raise my kids no one want to live there. You know that was another chapter in my life. You know I'm in a different place different different goals, different things now.
Jeffrey Hall 51:21
Yeah. We got to consider family too a lot of us will go home just because our family is there but you know we eventually toxic relationships you know, it doesn't have to be just I know people who grew up around with you know, I have friends or whatever they can more often than not it's family. And so just to be mindful and just you know, really it's hard to you know, for a lot of us to do but we really do have to learn how to put ourselves first and and our needs first our mental health
Keith McKeever 51:54
which was a good recipe for describing people how to do that. That's just a path you guys got you just got to go down right well did you do that
Jeffrey Hall 52:04
I just created I just kind of adopted a formula for myself. It's just basically something works or doesn't work. And you know, if it makes me feel a certain way, if it adds to my room if it makes if it brings something positive to my world, okay, yeah fine. And if especially if it's mutually you know, beneficial but if it takes for me in some way that makes me feel negative makes me feel bad or makes me hurt or something if this doesn't work you know, and there are people who you know, who want you to sacrifice you know, fall on the sword to make them feel better to stuff your own feelings and what's important to you just so we all we all have had someone like that in our lives. And for you know, for me, that doesn't work. That's why just I never make it personal. I really do keep it just that simple. It's works or doesn't work is healthy or not healthy, it's beneficial and for most growth or doesn't
Keith McKeever 53:10
see point I would add on you have to weigh the stress of it too. Even things that are beneficial may add a lot of stress to your life time and the effort whatever but if the end result is potentially positive, it may be worth it to go through that stress. If it doesn't bring you any joy and just add stress to your life that like a sack of hot potatoes
Jeffrey Hall 53:34
put money in your pocket bread on your table making you feel better in some way. I'd say it was probably not worth yeah
Keith McKeever 53:44
yeah that's that's a very huge life lesson I mean, I just did that a couple years ago you know I was involved in my HOA you know I love my community a lot. I love my neighbors. But it got to a point where I got burned out on it yeah and you know I was to me it was just like Alright, I'm done. Like I don't really care anymore that was time for me to leave when adding more stress for me to prepare and go to the meeting you know brought nothing of value to me I was like okay I absolutely stuff waiting somebody else to step in.
Jeffrey Hall 54:21
Yeah, I tell you what, it took a lot of emotional and mental ask weapons for me to get here to be able to make just made a decision I like it yeah. And again, because people will they will go Crane Style alone with you know, mentally and emotionally you know, just for their own whatever either amusement entertainment to get something out of you. Whatever the case may be. It doesn't matter. The reason doesn't matter. Again, works or doesn't work.
Keith McKeever 54:51
Absolutely. That's yeah, either works or doesn't work. That's That's some good advice and man We had a lot of good things I really hope that you especially the young troops that are in right now, listen to this, you know it takes to really take a lot of this to heart you know there's there's there's a lot you can learn about the transition process and we haven't even beyond that we haven't covered any anywhere near everything could possibly cover run into but you know, just guess the the one thing everybody needs to know is that millions of guys have done it before you a lot of people have done it successfully. But a lot of people have hit those landmines. So get your battle buddy, learn, be educated and have the right mindset. Easier said than done. Yeah, but still worth it. absolutely worth it, you're worth it. You're worth it. Absolutely. Because then you get to join the greatest greatest say organization or fraternity, whatever you want to say, you know, I don't want to exclude the ladies. But you know, greatest club, you know, we're veterans. A small percentage of our population, we all have a lot of tremendous things in common. We all serve different times different branches do different jobs. But we all share a lot of very similar things in common. You know, and, and
Jeffrey Hall 56:18
yet, it takes less than 30 seconds for us to realize we're not strangers once we get to talk.
Keith McKeever 56:23
I know. Right? I was like, yeah. Absolutely. Like, you know, you just feel comfortable. Even if you're just walking around somewhere. Somebody's got something on you know, t shirt or hat and something like you'd like, you guys probably that like, there's just an instant instant, like, okay, there's somebody in here who gets me somebody in here. He's He's gotta have my back. Somebody in here that there's some some shit goes down. I gotta run the other way.
Jeffrey Hall 56:52
Back in his room?
Keith McKeever 56:53
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, there's, there's a weird comfort to that. There really is.
Jeffrey Hall 56:58
But it's comfort. dowless Yeah,
Keith McKeever 57:01
I mean, I took my we talked before we recorded like, I took my kids out to Michigan barbecue for Veterans Day, you know, and I just don't think I didn't share this with you. But I was just sitting there. I was like, Do you guys realize how many badasses are in this room right now? Right? I was like, this whole damn restaurant is full of guys who served all the way from, you know, one of my buddies Jean Daly's, you know, 98 years old, what were two veteran, you know, all the way to some, some pretty young guys that probably got out last, you know, three or four years, walk through that door. Like, you know, you're you're in the presence of, you know, some men and women who have fought in every war, you know, every branch is represented here. And you probably damn near the safest, safest restaurant in town.
Jeffrey Hall 57:46
Last place, some knucklehead wants to start some crap, you know, the best place to start,
Keith McKeever 57:52
you know, and everybody's interesting friends, you know, the funny thing, like, my kids are like, does everybody know, you're everybody here, and I'm like, I don't know, I have two guys in this room. You know, the guys are coming in, they're like, waving across the room and other people waving back and forth. You know, I mean, I know a bunch of people there. You know, it's like, it's the worst small community, if you get out and you're in actually in your community, and kind of just try to connect with other vets in different ways. Like, you know, it's kind of funny, just like, I've sat down on my table, interviewed him a few weeks ago on this podcast, he's a local guy, we volunteer together, like, no, he walked in, and my mother were to buddy, and, you know, much of the people I've met here and there, and then later on that day, I ran into a Navy veteran who's a local singer, and yeah, so it's a small world. So it is. But now I appreciate you coming on here. I'm gonna throw this up here. You got to get your website here at the bottom Safety Net Solutions. Tell us a little bit about what Safety Net Solutions is. Yeah. So
Jeffrey Hall 58:50
the solutions started 1982 Incorporated. 96 Is it software development DevOps company, we've written a lot of things, we've done a fair amount of work, since for the past few decades for the for the FAA, both directly and indirectly. We build solutions. And we know we, we just kind of pride ourselves on solving problems. No matter how big how small, we have, we have a team of know of engineers that are just nothing short of phenomenal. And if solve some really big problem thinking doesn't get scratches rather than others, we're not able to figure out, you know, somehow, you know, they came up with a solution. And, and so we've been done, mostly government work. Right now we're all going to serve serve nonprofits as well to help them with their mission by you know, eliminating waste and, you know, streamlining because they have small budgets, small staff, and budget, big missions, you know, so how can you make that how can you make that happen? You can automate processes, you can, you know, build a solution together. build apps, and, you know, just make the world better because they're making the world better. I've spent a lot of time around nonprofits. You know, since I've retired from the Navy 2009, it's been a lot of time, on boards, volunteering, and you name it. And I just find it deeply rewarding. I volunteer every Saturday at a food pantry. spent a fair amount of time there that's worked as a workout, but I love joy it my church that I attend, know, help them with some things as well. And of course, my background and health care, you know, I just bought the company in the past year, for my friend, business partner, Ross Miller, he founded the company, and I can't, you know, his brain is just blowing up sometimes I thought a toddler, when I'm talking when I'm talking to Toby again, but tell me slower, right? So he's
Keith McKeever 1:00:57
literally the smartest guy in the room every time really is, like, Damn, how do you know? How do they get so much knowledge in their head?
Jeffrey Hall 1:01:04
things that excite him or things that, you know, just know, make other people kind of brazen enough? He finds these things exciting. He's that guy. And, and I like to connect people to him, you know, because, you know, I kind of you know, my job was to pick his brain, essentially.
Keith McKeever 1:01:22
Somebody that was knowledge in the industry, I guess, suck every piece of knowledge you can get out of him, right? Yeah,
Jeffrey Hall 1:01:26
he's a tremendous mentor as well, you know, so I'm new to run an organization and own an organization of this caliber. But I find it very exciting. And I just look for look forward to no other ways we could make an impact and make it just make a difference. We just want to make a difference.
Keith McKeever 1:01:47
Awesome. Making a Difference is a good thing is never a bad thing. So I guess I'll just ask for anybody who happens to be listening or watching courses can be a time in the future, too. But are you looking for any any employees right now? I mean, especially with tech stuff, a lot of vets get now with some with some technical skills and stuff like that, or?
Jeffrey Hall 1:02:06
Yeah, we're always looking for software engineers. Now we've got some opportunities where, you know, for mechanical engineers, network engineers, there's always opportunity.
Keith McKeever 1:02:21
I kind of think yourself, like, I want your tech stuff on me, man. There's, there's always a need for tech people.
Jeffrey Hall 1:02:29
Web developers? Yes.
Keith McKeever 1:02:32
Absolutely. So Well, there you have it, folks. You know, if you're, if you're interested in something like that, just check out the website. Jeff, I appreciate you coming on here. And you know, kind of sharing a little bit of your transition story. And hopefully, we've lit up the trail a little bit. Because a lot of people really appreciate it is to look out for and landmines to avoid.
Jeffrey Hall 1:02:56
I really appreciate you having me, I really appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation is one that really needs to be had. So thank you for that. Thank you for what you're doing. And I hope every veteran is able to see this and take something from it.
Keith McKeever 1:03:10
Well, there's more than enough nuggets of information that you can take from it, at least one or two. And that's my goal. I mean, seriously, the goal of this podcast is just educator inspire, you know, to help our brothers and sisters out there, just make that next step to improve in their lives, whatever that looks like. So whatever the topic is transition, you know, so you know, I appreciate it. And thanks. Thanks for being guest.
Jeffrey Hall 1:03:36
Thank you. You have a great rest of the day, month year holiday season. You too. Thank you
Keith McKeever 1:03:46
all right, there you go. Folks, hope you enjoyed that episode. There's definitely a lot to unpack with transition. We barely touched you know every aspect of it. Remember, on the left side got all kinds of resources spent on buddy podcasts that net as I always say, if there's not a resource out there you think should be reached out, let me know. And if you're struggling remember the national suicide hotline number is 988 Press one, or we want you here tomorrow. So if you're struggling, call that number and get your help.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
