Suicide Prevention

Marine Corps veteran Jessica Rose Johnson comes on the show to discuss suicide prevention. As a suicide prevention instructor and mental health advocate Jessica has a deep passion for not only helping people change their perceptions of mental health and suicide but giving them the tools to be able to better serve those in need. Jessica discusses the warning signs of a suicidal person as well as what to do and what not to do. This is an amazing episode that should be listened to by everybody in the military and veteran community!

Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jrhjohnson/

https://rosebudcllc.com/

Transcript from Episode 38 with Jessica Rose Johnson:

Jessica Rose Johnson 0:02

Buddy with Keith McKeever. All right. Welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast. I have Jessica Rose Johnson here with me. And I guess I'll just start by saying, because the topic today is suicide, I'm sure we'll hit on PTSD and some other things like that. I guess I'll just give a little bit of a trigger warning. That's the topic today. So listen at your own discretion. But Jessica, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you here.

Jessica Rose Johnson 0:28

Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to have this conversation because obviously, I'm really passionate about it.

Jessica Rose Johnson 0:35

That you are known as one of the main reasons why I started this podcast was to talk about this we know it's a it's it's the big bullseye on all of our backs. It's it's the biggest thing that's affecting our entire community. So it's a good thing to talk about. And and I think I've hopefully got some good questions teed up here to add some value to the audience. But before we do, tell your story, I do I do want to know, I know you both of your parents were Air Force. And you're a Marine. I hope you'll include that decision. When you told him, you're going to join the Corps, what their thoughts were on that. Yeah. Ryan, share your milk, your story.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:14

Um, so I guess like, I can kind of lead with that innocence. So yes, both my parents were Air Force, my dad comes from a long line of Navy. And when it came time, you know, getting that teenage age, it wasn't well, I saw rowing not serve, it was what branch because to me, service is just a, just a core, it's in my blood. I'm a daughter of the Revolutionary War, like literally lineage, my dad has traced back of all of our generations who have served in the military. So it's, it's such an honor for me to continue that legacy. My brother did serve in the Marine Corps, and so did my uncle, my mother's side. So when it came to decision making, I was looking at the Navy. And my thoughts were kind of, oh, you know, like, that's the family, grandpa, great, grandpa, they all serve in the Navy. And I was looking at more of the medical side of things. So I was kind of toying, I was like, Oh, well, you know, we're in the fruit cool, too. Right. And my dad picked me like, please just talk to an Air Force recruiter, like, Please, just see what they have to say. Because my parents actually did not want any of us going into the military. They have their reasons, which I think a lot of us who have served can completely understand the reasons, right?

Jessica Rose Johnson 2:23

Think about what, four or five reasons might be exactly.

Jessica Rose Johnson 2:27

But two of the three of us went to not only the military, but the Marine Corps. So I sat down with US Air Force recruiter, and he asked me, oh, what are the branches? Are you looking at, you know, Navy and Marines, Marine Corps and Marine Corps, you know, like typical high school responsible, really badass. He's, well, we do really, really, really badass things, which is really cool movies about it. I'm totally joining the Marine Corps, because I want that reputation for the rest of my life. I want people to look at me and be like, right? So I come home, and I'm like, I'm joined the Marine Corps and my dad's devastated completely. What? So he would call and complain about the recruiter, like, You did this to my baby girl, like, I'm so upset. And I call and call and call and harassed my recruiter until they finally came out. Like, I don't think many guys have had to do that. Or many people that have actually talked with in general, but yeah, I literally I was like, I'm 17, chop, chop, come over sign the paperwork. I know how this routine goes, my brother did it. Like, let's go. So that was the start of my military journey, which has really led me to a lot of the accuracy work that I do today. A question I also get a lot is What did you do in the Marine Corps? I was admin. Yes. Probably one of the less sexy of that. That attitude of Marine Corps, right is

Jessica Rose Johnson 3:54

probably the the least sexy Marine Corps job. There could be. Yes, I mean, like,

Jessica Rose Johnson 4:01

I don't know. I mean, we all got to do our part right there is that, you know, we all agree with that. But you

Jessica Rose Johnson 4:05

couldn't find the five thing finance is the lowest that you could probably go. Yeah, yeah. Nobody likes to finance people.

Jessica Rose Johnson 4:12

I mean, that was part of my job. So

Jessica Rose Johnson 4:14

yeah, sorry. Sorry, analogies. So yeah,

Jessica Rose Johnson 4:18

I actually I worked. I worked in deployments. And over a year I handled everyone before they deployed while they were deployed, when they come when they came back. Really did a whole lot of stuff that was really cool. And then they moved everyone around. And I went to separation so for over a year I was that person who typed people's to fourteens and helped off pop out process you which sometimes I was people's favorite person to see left by man. Wanton, some, you know, bribes, right for headline privileges, but I enjoyed being able to help people in a very confusing and frustrating process and it really helped me and continue To help me and the work that I do now. So during that time I had actually, I had an injury that occurred while in boot camp like a total freak thing. And it was kind of an ongoing thing, it never really got resolved. Well, he gotten to the point where I needed surgery. And I was fighting a say in the Marine Corps. So some people were like, Oh, you need to run this Pft. And I'm like, I have surgery in two weeks, like, what? So I didn't make a lot of friends. I did have to request mass go to my CEO and be like, I'm getting harassed. To do all this stuff. Like, it's been two and a half years since I had an injury. And it's taken this long to see a doctor to get a diagnosis to get scheduled for surgery, like lay off. And one on one convalescent leave, I got the call that I had requested for but was told denied and they said, Hey, we are moving you to the ID card center. And I thought, I won't go anywhere, I want to go back to my original unit. But that's fine. I'll go to the ID card center. To get away from the environment I was in so came back off a convalescent leave. It wasn't long, I was in the ID card center. So I worked at card center for about another year. Again, really eye opening, seeing all the different things at that point. Now I'm not just working with Marines. I'm working with every branch of service, but I'm also working with the families. So seeing a lot of that, you know, I typically forget my experience and the value of my experience as a child to to active duty parents. So my dad was deployed pretty much my entire life. He lived in Santee and my mom was active duty, and we had a wonderful babysitter, who I still stay in contact with, you know, that was that was our life. So when I joined the Marine Corps, I did get out medically after about four and a half years. And when I got out, I had this perfect plan. You see, I was going to stay in California because beautiful weather,

Jessica Rose Johnson 6:51

of course. Yeah, yeah. Like

Jessica Rose Johnson 6:55

all the beaches, you could want amazing food. Like, I live in Oklahoma right now.

Jessica Rose Johnson 7:01

But the cost was at the cost.

Jessica Rose Johnson 7:05

So my I this beautiful plant a, this is where I was going to live. This is where I was going to work. I was I had gotten my Associate's degree. So I was gonna start my Bachelor's program there. Just to to to to, and you know what, because my mom raised me to be a planner and always have a backup plan. I had Plan B, C, and D. All lined out. And good. Oh, God was like, Okay, how many plans you have for nothing in California. So literally, every part of all my clients were falling apart at a rapid pace. Now being on that hold, you don't really know when you're leaving. And it literally I logged on one day and said, Oh, I was supposed to leave last Friday. Because good old Marines can do math, and they miscalculated my leave date. So I thought, Okay, well, I'm selling back on my leave. I'm not getting the take home. Like all my pizza, there was like a lot of like, logistical stuff. I got to do all those processes now like

Jessica Rose Johnson 7:58

that, like you got to get it done. Yeah,

Jessica Rose Johnson 8:01

I thought I was gonna have like a good like, well, 30 buffer? No,

Jessica Rose Johnson 8:05

that's kind of how it was when I got out. It was just like, Oh, you got like three days? I got three business days. Yeah. Oh, no big deal. You could do it.

Jessica Rose Johnson 8:13

So I know, that's not typical, though. Working in separations, I will say, there's been some people who come in and say, Today's my last day in the Marine Corps, and I'm like, is this your first time coming to see us? Oh, my gosh, or the woman who didn't realize she signed a five year contract. So here she is four years in, made all these plans to get on? It's like, you still have another year? Yeah, you

Jessica Rose Johnson 8:36

can be a bad guy. Like she really didn't like you did. She didn't call the angel of

Jessica Rose Johnson 8:41

death a few times. Because typically, I have to deliver the bad news. And I don't know if my first section I was the only female for quite some time. And maybe it's because I'm nice. And I'm overly empathetic, and compassionate. But I always seem to be the person who had the bad news to people.

Jessica Rose Johnson 8:58

You had good news. I mean, you were 14 people. So you're just an angel to them. Right?

Jessica Rose Johnson 9:05

Yeah, dark, or angel of death. So they were always thrilled in those cases. But so a majority of people know that, hey, I'm getting out a few months before getting out. I should start making plans and figure out what that looks like and start. Okay. This is why I got to do in the Marine Corps side of things is what I do on my like, my own life type of things like to get where I want to go to be where I want to be. People who are medically discharged or administratively discharged, things like that, like administering a discharge, you can be out of the record in less than 10 days. So pretty quick turnaround. And that's right. I just kind of felt like oh crap, like I already gave up my apartment. You know, the place where I was going to live is falling through this is falling through this is going through this the palm tree like what I'm going to do so I was saying with a friend for a little bit. There was a life change for her so I couldn't stay with her anymore. So I thought okay, well, I went to go stay with us. Friend, and that didn't work out. So next thing I know, I'm sleeping in my car. And I wanted to caveat this with no, I wasn't broke, I was broke as a joke. However, I just lost my income. Right. So in my mind, I can't really afford to pay 150 $200 for a hotel, I got to be able to have money for a deposit on an apartment to, you know, do all these other things like, I got to save where I can. So I will caveat it with that. It's not like my bank account was drained, you know, but all my options fell apart. So I slept in my car for a few days and was trying to figure things out, like, Oh, we're gonna go to, and I finally called my parents and said, I think it's time. I think I need to come home. And of course, they're like, Oh, we're so sorry. You're coming out, we'll come pick you up, we'll do this big road trip, which we did. We got to see some places in California that I didn't take the opportunity to do while I was stationed there. And did the whole route 66 My mama like laying on the ground like route 66. Look at us. We're cool. So did all that. And I come home and it's a couple of weeks after Thanksgiving, it was that kind of time of year. And then I sit on the couch. And my mom had the big bucket of Cheesy Poofs for whatever reason. She chopped.

Jessica Rose Johnson 11:24

Okay, I need a reason for that. You know.

Jessica Rose Johnson 11:29

People have said that I don't think anyone's ever done that really doesn't have one. So I am, I would use the excuse that Oh, I'm so used to California time. Eight o'clock here is really 6am there as a reason why I was sleeping in. And then I would sit on the couch, crying my eyes onto Grey's Anatomy while my parents were at work eating the Cheesy Poofs. Right, then my parents would come home, and we'd have dinner. And I wouldn't talk which by now I think people know that I'm a talker. So after a couple weeks of this and then going to bed early, which my parents would try and the timezone difference, right? Well, if it's eight o'clock here at 6pm, your mic doesn't work that way. Um, my poor parents, like could see like, she's she's struggling, right, I had this whole identity crisis, because it's like, who am I? What I am I and one of the biggest things I think is as a society, we put so much value in what we do, not who we are. So that's one of the biggest challenges that I see amongst service members is when we transition. Yeah, we signed up for four years or whatever our contract is. And yeah, we're getting out at a time in which was expected or maybe not so expected. But there's still this big transition, right? I was a Marine. So anyone's like, Oh, what do you do? Because it's like the first thing we ask them like, Oh, right. And there's like, oh, reputation can expand, right? Oh, man, she's a badass. Oh, that's so awesome. It's like, right. And now it's, I was the marine. Okay. What am I now, because we put all this worth in what we do, not who we are. So I'm going through this identity crisis, but not really realizing it. I mean, I was I lost my home, I lost my friends. I lost the world I was involved in. And now I'm back in Oklahoma, where I thought I would never live again. Living at my parents house eating cheesy puffs. So a little bit of time had gone by and my dad, I know, he cringes, but I say that probably every time I tell this story, too. I say I love I love my parents. And this was completely out of love. It sounds super harsh. So there's my disclaimer going into this. Like, please don't send hate mail to my dad, like, they know me well enough. So one night, we're sitting at the table and we're eating dinner. And my dad looks at me, and he says, rosebud, you're getting fat. But the thing is, is that when I tell that story, people instantly like your dad commented on your weight. Like that's not what it was about. That was a trigger. For me. That was a trigger word for me. And that's what woke me up. And it wasn't like me gaining weight, like a muscle mass and maybe, you know, exchange for a little fluff, but not enough like five pounds maybe. Right? So it wasn't a weight thing. It was a lifestyle thing. It was a word that he knew would wake me up.

Jessica Rose Johnson 14:20

Because he knew you were sitting on a couch eat cheese books. And it's like, you know, he recognized there was no direction there was no, no vision for the future. Yeah,

Jessica Rose Johnson 14:28

nothing to do about the weight. It had to do about my wife. So when he said that, and he said, rosebud, you're getting fat. I thought, Oh my God, you're right. I'm not doing anything with my life. I'm sitting on a couch. I'm watching Grey's Anatomy and crying. And those are my friends now like literally Grey's Anatomy. Those are my friends. Like those are my best friends. I knew all about their life. You know, I just assumed that I was one of them. So it was my big wake up call and I said okay. I'm going to get up and I'm going to go to this university, and I'm going to get enrolled. Old, do all that. So my dad took the day off to go with me, thank God, you're fresh out of the Marine Corps a little on the crazy side because I'm clearly depressed, right? And I go to this school. And this poor guy tells me the wrong thing. Because someone told him the wrong thing. Because that happens, you know, policy things. For those of my military peeps, they, they said, I had to have an official certified copy of my smart transcript, which it's changed names now, but like your military transcript, in order to enroll, and I thought I have an associate's degree, why do you care about what I did in the military, and it's December, so I'm at that like, weird enrollment, where it's like, non traditional. So I go to the VA office, and I'm like, um, you are going to help me because this science is VA office. And this is what this guy's telling me and I know he's wrong. And a woman slides me a piece of paper and said, you can go online, you can order your sports transcript here. Wrong answer. So my dad was like, It's time to go. And we left

Jessica Rose Johnson 16:04

the scene, right? We gotta go. We gotta go. We took a little while to get the you know, get some of those things out of your system. You are not tolerating things, civilian world. You can't just tell someone to do their job. Don't understand.

Jessica Rose Johnson 16:27

Don't call the police. I call him calm, calm, and finally got ahold of not just anyone. But I actually was the director of admissions who answered my phone call, who happened to be a spouse of someone who's serving in the military? And she said, I got you don't worry about it, we will take care of this for you. I'm like, That's right. So that's what really kind of started my advocacy side of my life. Was, this is this is not okay. So I ended up going back to that VA office. And I made friends with the guys that work there. And eventually, there was a job opening. I was like, Yes, I want to work here. Because this office should not just process GI Bill claims, this office should be a place where any veteran transition can come and get help. They should be the ones advocating for the school to be like, That's BS, let's mix this process. And that's just kind of where to get doing. So anytime anything came up, I fought and fought and fought. And honestly, it's like a, just this really cool thing because I get to go back to that university. And look at when I started, there was two of us working there as veterans. And then we had the the lovely Miss Linda, who was overseeing office. And our desk was in the waiting room of advisement, to now it has grown and grown and grown. They have their own building, nice lobbies, different services for veterans now. And it just really makes my heart happy to look back and be able to see like I was a part of that. Because I spoke up, because I said this is not okay. And it's not for everybody. But that's what kind of just keeps pushing me where I am. So my story is like, long. So long story short, is nothing in my vocabulary. But after I graduated, I graduated, I have a master's in crime, intelligence analysis and religion and culture. like to joke I love research, and I love people. So you know, there's that. And I started working for a organization that helps veterans who are homeless. And I worked there for a while. And really just kind of eye opening, like seeing things and understanding things. Even now, I listen to conversations where people who have zero experience with someone who has been homeless, zero experience working in the homeless field or clearly haven't had any conversations with anyone who has been homeless or working in the field of homelessness, determining what's best for the homeless, and how we need to solve this homeless problem. And I'll just sit back and listen to people. And I'm like, you don't even know, you don't even know. You're even taken, like the time to really find out what's going on. And what will really help impact. Unfortunately, I didn't stay there long, because there were some safety concerns. And I left for my own safety and for the sanity of my husband, so he wouldn't have to murder anybody. Yeah, I mean, he finally said,

Jessica Rose Johnson 19:27

No more long distance relationships, but it's a little different if you're on the other side of the fence, right? Yeah.

Jessica Rose Johnson 19:33

So I left that job. And while I was talking to someone I knew and another veteran organization about you kind of got to leave this job to come work for me. I just because I jumped in opportunities. I don't know how to say no, still working on it. But I ended up becoming the Suicide Prevention Program Manager for the Oklahoma Army National Guard. No clue about suicide. I had at the time, not known if I would was affected by suicide in my life. And I just thought going back to that I love research. I love people. So what I'll do, I will research it, I ended up doing a mortality review on all the deaths that the Oklahoma National Guard had experienced as suicide once they started tracking suicide deaths, and I learned so much. One of the biggest things that I learned from all those deaths was the number one thing that they all had in common. was loss of fear of loss of significant relationship. Because we're men doesn't surprise me. Yeah, like we talk about the Brotherhood, right? The battle buddy, right? That having these connections, right? Well, I was my connection was Grey's Anatomy. And I had one one other friend, like, can't really weave route. But, you know, really, when you're depressed, and you're sitting on a couch, and Grey's Anatomy is your best friend, like, you don't intend to get off the couch and eat something other than cheesy boobs, and have friends outside of Grey's Anatomy. So that just really opened my eyes to how much we are disconnected, and how much we don't see the value in relationships. So I went on, I worked there for a couple years, I got to speak to all kinds of different units put out information, just again, typing in research, where what are the data sets? What is the data? You know, what are we doing with the data, like all these different things like how can we, how can we educate people, but then educate people to do something? Right. I think you and I have talked about that, like, what, what do you do with the information? What, like what can be done? Right? So I worked there for a couple years, and I got the opportunity to transition to the Oklahoma Department mental health and substance use services and work on the opioid project, which at the time, I was like, like overdoses of my thing, suicides, my thing, but I, you know, God in his eyes,

Jessica Rose Johnson 22:01

the way I see it, that's just kind of a natural progression in some ways. I mean, some people, just their problems just lead to suicide, other people, it leads to substance abuse, which either leads to death or suicide because of that.

Jessica Rose Johnson 22:13

Yeah, there's definitely like related coping mechanisms, right, is that we, as a society, put value, and what coping mechanisms we think are good ones, and what coping mechanisms we think are bad ones. So for example, addiction, right? Oh, they're addicted to drugs. Oh, they're an alcoholic. Oh, they spent six hours in the gym every day. Oh, they I'm like, Nah, my mind's like blinking, or they have like

Jessica Rose Johnson 22:50

three examples. But, you know, where are you going with that?

Jessica Rose Johnson 22:54

You know, we all have our own addictions. It's just what a society feels a good addiction. And, you know, I'm not necessarily saying six hours in the gym is bad. Like, when I was training for Invictus, I trained for four to six hours a day. But there's also this balance we have to find in life, right?

Jessica Rose Johnson 23:11

I mean, alcohol, alcohol is not bad moderation. cannabis is legal in many states. I know that there's a lot of I've had a couple of guests talk about things like psilocybin mushrooms and ayahuasca treatments. And are those drugs? Yes. Could they be helpful? Yes. Is it something you should do every day? Probably not.

Jessica Rose Johnson 23:32

I mean, that's a great point, when we go back to like food, right? Everything is good in moderation. And then the good all the worst addiction in the mall is sugar. But sugar is that everything. So it's a that's definitely good points, right is that we take everything we do, and we put value in them. And they're good in moderation. But sometimes, depending on our life, it could be genetics, it could be DNA, it could be environmental, right? You drink more, or you end up staying in the gym longer just to stay away from your house to stay away from your environment. But we're not. It's just another coping mechanism. So it's finding other coping mechanisms that work best for you that isn't going to increase additional needs. Right. And that's something we see a lot with when it comes to drug addiction is the stigma of it. Right? You could a long time ago, they were saying like, Oh, the person most likely to be addicted to opiates is the soccer mom with a PT Cruiser, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She goes in and she gets these pain meds and then she's addicted. Well, think about in the military. You got this new drug that can take your pain away and you're dealing with those of us who are open to pain on a regular basis in a lot of pain on a regular basis. Oh, there's this new I called it Navy candy, right? Yeah, ibuprofen. Take Navy candy and drink some water and you'll be fine. So we get this new Navy candy that's going to help alleviate your pain. And then you're like, Oh, it does. It does, it does. But we didn't really know the long term effects of this. And we keep giving and given and given and given. And then there's other side effects of that, right? You're taking an opioid, you got health, that can be affected. So if we're, if we're not watching our moderation of different things, then we kind of risk getting deeper and deeper and deeper, your tolerance builds up. Right? So with opioids, maybe you start out taking two a day, but all of a sudden, your body's now tolerant of that and your pain starts creeping in, check for a day. I'll take five a day, six a day, and oh, now I'm out. And I've been taking six a day, it takes, you know, few days to get my my prescription refilled? Well, guess what? Your tolerance drops back off. So you got to take that six a day that you were used to taken before. And your risk of overdose. So

Jessica Rose Johnson 26:11

already, you know, you just keep going and going and going and all of a sudden the prescriptions isn't enough, and you got to go find something on the street. Yeah. And I mean, I'm not an addiction expert. But you know, I know with OPA thing right now, fentanyl being laced in things is a huge problem. You know, I don't know the specifics on that on science on that. But I know that you might be fine taught nine times out of 10. Using it have fentanyl in it. But that 10th time might be might be the last time. I mean, it is deadly, it will kill you. Yeah, it's rolling the dice every single time for years. And we shouldn't punish people for having an addiction when they probably had something legitimate at first, that they said one or two ibuprofen than four, then six, then eight. Now it's harder street drugs, and all kinds of things that,

Jessica Rose Johnson 27:03

whoa, this has been going on for decades, decades, not just opioids, right? We've had we've had drug problems in our country for decades. But all of a sudden, oh, it's an issue in society cares about it. And oh, it's an issue because you know, we're looking back, and are we really saying, Hey, we screwed up this whole time? And are we changing our stigma? Are we changing our messaging about addiction? Not completely, because there's still all these drugs. So you brought up a good example, street drugs, right? You may have gone to the doctor, have gotten a prescription, then taken more than prescribed, so you run out faster, your doctor is no longer prescribing them, whatever the case may be turned to street drugs. Same thing, if someone goes to the doctor, and they don't feel like the doctor is listening, I'm in pain, I'm in pain, there's nothing wrong, there's nothing wrong, nothing comes up in your X ray, nothing comes up your X ray. How about an MRI? Oh, you know, payments, payments, payments, pain meds, or if they don't address it, what happens is if you're in that much pain, emotional or physical pain, will do anything to stop the pain. Right? So if that means going to a source, going to whatever is on on the streets for drugs, that also kind of ties back to suicide, right is that you have so much emotional pain, that all you want to do is in the pain. So a lot of times people ask like, Oh, are you thinking of hurting yourself? Thinking of ending the hurt, cuz you're in that much pain, you'll do anything. So that's another issue that we have, if you're going for medical care, or you're like, I can't afford medical care, I'm going to go to this street because my buddy takes this or I heard that this helps. And I'm going to start taking it that these drugs aren't regulated. And you're taking a risk every time. But there's an underlying thing that got you to that point. That's not being addressed.

Jessica Rose Johnson 28:58

Yeah, you brought up something really interesting, the timeline, because we have drugs been around for a long time. I mean, Coca Cola had cocaine in it for granola. You know. I try not to get political, but I will go just slight direction off course, is President Reagan in his war on drugs. That was how many years ago? Obviously, we were in the middle of a opioid epidemic right now. So that obviously has not worked. And as far as I go on that but what was not looked at was, how do we change our healthcare system to take care of people better? How do we change the stigma on mental health so people are getting taken care of because another thing you said was you take your pills faster, right? You got 30 day supply, you're done at 20. So, I mean, there's a lot of veterans will understand this. So so you've got an injury or combat related injury, and you've got a prescription, you're 10 days into the month, and all of a sudden mistakes and ankle right you roll your ankle again, and now it's not broken, not enough to really go to the emergency room for but you call call the VA, I guess I'll throw this right back at them you call the VA and they say it'll be three weeks before you get an appointment. Well, to try and deal with the pain so you can go about your life and take care of your wife or your husband, whatever your kids, your daily responsibilities. Now you're doubling up, you get 20 days in your out. That's how those things really start is just life events, not being able to get treatment on time, all these different factors. It's not just one factor is that you know, you don't wake up tomorrow say, hmm, I'm just going to get addicted to x y&z Today,

Jessica Rose Johnson 30:37

right. Like nobody goes into it saying like, Oh, we're gonna be Johnny fun to be addicted to cocaine and opioids and one day die from overdose. Like, that's not how that works. But I feel like there are some people who think that way they think that you chose to be addicted to that. And it's like, I think, did you really like? I don't think I honestly don't think that anyone has ever said I want to be addicted to whatever.

Jessica Rose Johnson 31:06

Yeah, people just ignore the fact that this is science. These are pills manufactured to interact with your brain and pain receptors and, you know, nerves and stuff like that to block the pain. Yeah, and if your pain constantly that's going to get it's gonna be really addictive, if all of a sudden you don't have enough pills to continue that on. Yeah, I guess that's a

Jessica Rose Johnson 31:29

probable and then you're going to look for other sources to help when there's so many I called the OG medicine like the original medicine right is there's so many other ways that our our body can heal itself. Yes, I'm not saying I'm not saying medication socks or medication doesn't help because there are circumstances where some people yes medication is right for them. But there's so many you know, natural Pathak holistic OG medicine, things like acupuncture. Were all the difference for so many people I've personally benefited a lot from acupuncture. The when I was competing in Vegas, and I don't know the name of it, so someone probably like comment, like they they did like the the piercings like, they're like these little gold things. They like, piercing the ear with them,

Jessica Rose Johnson 32:16

like a pressure point kind of thing on

Jessica Rose Johnson 32:19

sand for a few days or whatever. Interesting. Um, so yeah, I don't remember what they're called. But I'll tell you what, it is the only thing that has ever taken away my headache from a TBI. The only thing and it was like magic, it literally felt like gone. Like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

Jessica Rose Johnson 32:39

There's something to be said for some of those, like you say, Oh, gee, things if you if you think about world history, every culture, every civilization that goes way back, they had their own ways of doing things, from Native Americans to the ancient Chinese. I mean, these cultures still have these. You know, recipes passed down through religion or through families or whatever have like, oh, mix these five different ingredients together and drink this, your cold goes away.

Jessica Rose Johnson 33:07

Yeah, there's all these like, remedies. And our our brains are so powerful like we can we can heal ourselves a lot of the times with even thought like, you hear of manifesting, or I have probably like 15, sticky notes of things that I say to myself to just get me in a mindset and you're not so keen, it's so important healing through diet, that you said, the recipes, there's a book on my shelf that I haven't read, I'll be super real. I've read like a few pages. But the book itself is called healing with whole foods. And it's been recommended to me by so many people because I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I was like 2120 2122, maybe, somewhere, somewhere in there. I don't quite remember, early 20s, I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. And at this particular time, I was going through some tests on medications, which increased my migraines. Yay. And because of the medication I was on, I couldn't take certain other typical medications like maybe candy. And a guy said, Hey, I had I had a big incident where I had a huge migraine and I was in the swimming pool. And it was this whole hot mess was so embarrassing. But he said you should look into this book, you should start looking at your diet because not all bodies are created equal. And I've done the food sensitivity test. I tell you what, I don't care what that food sensitivity test says I cannot have egg yolks. We rule that out the natural way. Once I got I was like, Oh wow, my belly feels much happier. So there's there's a lot of things like that too, is that all these ties from our gut to our brain, like our gut health, and we're taking care of our gut, we can better take care of our brain and I just I find it really fascinating and I don't have enough time to research and read everything. Because I want to know what, you know,

Jessica Rose Johnson 34:54

certain things that like I don't like I'm lactose intolerant. So like, I mean, I eat cheese. But to cut down on things, I drink all the milk, you know, on the site and give and take a little bit so it's not as bad. Or, like, I don't have to eat gluten free, and I don't eat gluten free. But one thing I realized, after I kind of experimented a little bit was, if I eat less bread, then I feel better. And it's like, okay, alright, so you just got to find that like, optimal mix of like, yeah, in a diet for you that works for your body.

Jessica Rose Johnson 35:29

And that's a huge thing. Like when we're feeling when we're feeling bad or feeling tired, and we're feeling rundown. Sometimes, it's like a basic thing that we need is maybe we don't need sleep medication, maybe we don't need pain pills. Maybe there's a vitamin that our body doesn't have and it desperately needs because our diets are so

Jessica Rose Johnson 35:49

jacked up by mercial at I can't think of the name of the company, but they have like the fruit and

Jessica Rose Johnson 35:59

veggie vitamins. And they say on that commercial, like, have you ever eat at a fast food restaurant? Have you heard fast food restaurant this week? What vegetables Did you order from a fast food restaurant? You're like, really, like our diets while we have access to the whole, like, it gets into like a whole nother thing about all these other factors that really build up and affect our mental health and well being that then can lead to suicide.

Keith McKeever 36:27

Absolutely, right. Like,

Keith McKeever 36:29

so many things, so many

Jessica Rose Johnson 36:31

things on the suicide. What are some of and this may be really good, not only for the veterans are being good battle buddies and reaching out to their friends. I think we all need to do a better job of that one. Myself included sometimes but what are some of those warning signs that you can look forward about a buddy or that a spouse or key California parents? You know, what are border maybe the top four or five common warning signs that somebody should be like a red flags going off here?

Jessica Rose Johnson 36:59

I always like to say until Marvel comes at me like trust your spidey sense, right? The best protectors of suicide are often the people close at home. But sometimes we're too close at home to really notice. And something that I think gets missed a lot when we talk about the signs is people put on like barriers, I guess there are some definite signs, but the one biggest thing is change in behavior. And I say that because a lot of the typical signs like depression, right? Isolation, right? So me, I'm super extroverted. If I'm not going out and hanging with friends, or texting or calling people back, people don't my depressions kicking in, or if I'm feeling like I'm just kind of isolating myself, my depression is kicking in those kinds of things like looking for stuff like that within yourself or with others, if they're certain to withdraw. One of the other things is prized possessions, not really caring about them, even giving them away making plans for the end without having a say for my husband has brain cancer. So obviously we're we have conversations about in life stuff, right? But if it's like out of the blue, all of a sudden they're having all these conversations about in life taking that opportunity. If they're giving away their stuff, asking them like, Hey, man, what's up? You know, I thought you used to love that steak where that was your favorite Stapler? Stapler. It's like, yes. You know, like, what's up? Like, don't you still need your stapler, like, just asking, and maybe they come back and they say, Oh, I found minimalism. And it's amazing. And it's great. And you too, should try it right? Or that opens up the conversation to say, Oh, um, I just don't, I'm just not going to need it anymore. Right. But if we're looking for those changes in behavior, that's super helpful. So that's why I say if your closest you can spot those changes behavior, because it can also go the other way. So I mentioned earlier about people are in so much pain, emotionally, they'll do anything to in the pain. So when people create a plan, and they're like, I'm gonna do it, I, I'm gonna kill myself. And that's what's going to end my pain, that sometimes you'll see an emotional the other direction, because now they're like, I got a plan, I'm finally going to end my pain, this is finally going to be over. And that's what they're focused on. So don't get blinders on. Like, it's only these things here. Like really trust your instinct if somebody is acting outside their norm, but I feel like maybe it's just because I'm overly empathetic, that I feel like I can typically sense that a lot when people are depressed. Or, you know, like, you just kind of feel the mood, fill the air, and asking and reaching out just like you said, like we're all busy. We're all busy. We have 99 different things going on. But if we just reach out to one person a day just texting them saying, hey, just checking in and haven't talked to you in a while What's up, or making time for a phone call to have or taking the time for a random stranger, which is so simple, like holding the door open, letting go in line Have you first smiling at them? I use the grocery store as an example, on their left, so grocery store, right? If I want to buy the tea that is in my mug, and I'm not getting it on the online blue store, I'm going to the blue store in person, right? There's someone who's got to put it on the shelf. So when I'm in the grocery store, and they're stocking the shelves, and they're like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I literally ran people who were damaged in tears. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't take an extra minute to stop and say, Thank you for being here. Because if you were putting stuff on the shelves, I couldn't be buying it today. So I appreciate you. And people will light up like, oh, they don't get that because guess what we're so fast paced. And we're so in a hurry. That if we're if we're not checking in on our friends and family, we're not checking in on the random grocery store clerk who might not have friends and family or who might be in a situation where their friends and family aren't checking in on them. So taking that extra time even seeing and recognizing that, right and that that's dressed out stalker, who clearly like people get pressured, like you're in my way, I want to slap people when I say that, I'm going to the nail salon a couple of times wanting to slap

Jessica Rose Johnson 41:12

a person. And the only reason I do not say something and slapper is because of respect for the nail salon is their business, I don't want to screw up a client of theirs, but kept people like that's something that we could do and look for look for people in those situations and show them a little bit more love and grace in this world. Because we talked earlier, the news is just so negative, and there's just so much horrible stuff going on in our world, in our country in our own state, that we are the change in this world. Every day, we are that change. And if we are looking and waiting for someone else to change, or we're looking and waiting for someone else to advocate for issues in our own lives, things aren't going to get fixed. So when we're looking for those signs and symptoms, because I kind of went on a rant, your big question were like, what are some of the things good? There's definitely not behavioral change. But a lot of it is like the isolation and withdraw. But again, changing behavior, right? That's what you're really looking for. When someone starts changing their behavior. They're shifting their attitude, you can feel the energy, or you ever had that, like, oh, man, that that couple of them are clearly frightening, cuz you can feel the tank and you can almost see it. Right? Absolutely. A lot of times ranch that every day, we're just living in such a fast paced world, we don't take the time to see it or do something about it.

Jessica Rose Johnson 42:41

Yeah, you know, you said spidey senses, you know, the little hairs stand up on the back of your head maybe that you know, something's wrong. Because you might have some people that are just out of some people in my life, who it's just, it's the way the wind is blowing that day right there either in a good mood, or they're in a bad mood, right? They're hard to get a read on like that. But if you have somebody that's really super upbeat, and happy and positive all the time, and all of a sudden they're not. And the next time you see him, they're not well, might be something to keep an eye on because you're not going to the person at the grocery store, you're not going to know if they're suicidal, you just bumping into them one time. But that happy little comment might preserve their life by a day. You know, it's not going to turn things drastically around for them. But it might be for a day or a few hours. Or

Jessica Rose Johnson 43:30

you'd be surprised how many people who have texted me and said, your post your comment what you said the other day, completely changed my life around like, I've gotten, like, it gives me chills at some of the people who have texted me saying that, that one thing that you did that I thought was not that big a deal. save their life. Really, for people that have my phone number, think of all the people I'm touching that don't even have my number to say, Wow, what you did completely saved my life. Because sometimes it is that like think of going to like when you're super angry, and you're super worked up and you're like, just take some deep breaths, right? But if someone tells you like, oh, let's just take some deep breaths, what makes you feel better is punching them in the face? What's your robot that will notice is that simple act of like, take some breaths, or imagine punching them in the face. And now I'm starting to get calmer, that sometimes it is just the simple little things. It's that when you're feeling so alone in the world, and you're going into the grocery store, and someone holds the door open for you and says, Oh hey, here you go, or whatever the case may be. You're like, oh, that person saw me. You could be the only person that has given them any attention that day. And speaking of attention, because I dropped that word. When we talk about talking about suicide. I hear a lot where people are like oh They're just seeking attention, or they just want attention. Well, let me slap you in the face. Yeah. We all need attention. As human beings, we aren't meant to live by ourselves in silos. We're meant to live in these communities. We're meant to interact with people. We're meant to have a tension. Right? So it's not a bad thing. No, yes. For those people who use it as a manipulative, manipulative tool, I'm not going to say that there's not because I have experienced that personally in my life. But that is not. That's, that's like the exception to the rule that people need to be needed, they need to be wanted, they need to be a part of something. So simply holding the door can change the world. And I'll tell you another story. Because I got 99 stories. I was having a pretty, pretty rough day, my husband, like I'd mentioned his brain cancer, he had a big dip in health wasn't doing well, literally was thinking, holy hell everyday is his last day this week, like, he may not wake up in the morning bad. Got some medication, it was emergency medication situations into this pharmacy, this pharmacy doesn't have it, I got to find another pharmacy who has it dealing with all this stuff. Dealing there was some some family, family drama going on. And I'm, I'm in the car, at the pharmacy, and I'm just frustrated. And I was on the phone and decided to you know, above this time, they fill the medication. And I said, Hey, I need the thing to give you my card to pay. And the woman said, um, hold on a second. This is so weird. Like, normally, I would have already paid by now like they actually gave me my meds I haven't paid yet. And the woman came back on the phone and she said, the car ahead of you paid for you. And I was told to tell you Merry Christmas, and good luck to you and your husband.

Jessica Rose Johnson 46:56

Like, I'll be real, that copay for that medication was like six bucks, it felt like $6 million. First of all, that person had no clue how much they were about to swipe their card for as I'm talking to my husband dying from cancer, you know, but that small act of kindness changed my entire mood. It Reese entered me and I am so grateful. I'm so grateful for humanity, I'm so grateful for this opportunity in my life. And I'm not saying that to say you should be grateful about everything in your life, because sometimes life sucks, vented out, cry it out, whatever you got to do, right. But in that moment, that small act that that person did for me, I'm still talking about to this day, every time I go to that pharmacy, I think of that kindness of that person showed me that whopping $6 That is $6 million in my heart that we have no clue those little things that we do throughout the day, that paying for the buying the coffee for the car behind you situation, right? How much it can totally change someone's life around. So I feel that I've, I've been blessed for people to be willing to tell me these stories to be willing to text me and say, Man, I was at my lowest. But your post came across my feed or you text me to check in on me. And it just shifted my gears. Because a lot of the times most most suicides at people don't plan them and wait a week or two weeks, it's normally you have those thoughts, you make that plan you act on them. It's a very short timeframe. And I say that because life goal of mine is to actually remember those statistics. But of all the statistics, his brain retains those ones I don't, and I don't want to misquote them. But a very, very high percentage of suicides occur a very, very short percentage after thoughts. So something so small and so simple, can shift somebody and they can go on and live a healthy life. They can go on and say you know what? I need to seek help. I need to find other coping skills because what I'm doing isn't working. Let me find something that does work. For me that works for my brain that works for my body. That's going to help me live a happy, thriving life.

Jessica Rose Johnson 49:18

That's awesome. I hadn't really thought about you know, just the, the potential impact on just a little thing. You know, it's like, if you're sitting ups and you're thinking like, the post office here in town, there's times I go up, there's a lot of elderly people coming out. Almost always seems like it's elderly people coming in and out. But yeah, maybe it's just me, I don't know, but I just like to hold the door open for people just the nice thing to do. And, you know, it just got to think and I was like I've had a lot of people just not in the last two years with masks on but before that a lot of people just be like, you know, they would just give you a head nod. Maybe a wink the old ladies be all thank you sweetie. You're so nice. You know just little things like that. It's like yeah, you know, it's just I don't know The door myself anyway, you know, was will hold it for an extra 10 seconds, 20 seconds and let them out, you know, and never really thought about the impact of that. But yeah, that was good on those warning signs because I think you got to pay attention to it just just if it doesn't seem right, ask a question. That leads me into my next two questions because I'm, I'm curious on this, and I want to take this adu route and adult route. What should somebody do? If they have suspicions of what shouldn't they

Jessica Rose Johnson 50:29

do? The number one thing is ask directly. Don't beat around the bush, don't be afraid to ask well, you're going to be afraid to ask let's be real. It's scary. Because it's life or death on the line. If that person says yes, you're like, Oh, shit.

Jessica Rose Johnson 50:41

Yeah, like you're afraid of the answer being Yes. Yeah. But

Jessica Rose Johnson 50:46

I've talked to Chief of psychology departments, I've trained crisis centers. And they all say the same thing that there's still this, like, when I ask, there could be a yes on the other side. But this goes back to what I said earlier, right? Is if you say, Oh, are you thinking of hurting yourself? Remember ending pain. Ask directly. Are you thinking of suicide? Don't say, I'm thinking of suicide, are you? Because I think, I think we understand. There's so much stigma and manipulation and statements like that, like, you're not going to do this are you? So ask directly, Harry, think about suicide, and don't be scared. I, I had a really rough time, a few years back, and I was sharing with a colleague like all this stuff going on. And I could tell he was starting to, like really worry about me. And I thought, Oh, this is great. I'm gonna keep talking to him. And I'm gonna get him to ask me if I'm thinking about suicide. I wasn't. But I just like, I really want to empower him to ask me, dude. And I was like, No, I'm not. But I'm so happy you asked. Because I just got really excited because it's something that, you know, I talked about, right? But that's the thing is like, if somebody gets mad at you for that, honestly, Hey, fuck them that you cared enough to ask them? If they were okay. So ask directly. Are you thinking about suicide? And if they say no, chances are though, they'll do something like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm just having a bad day. Right? And you can say, hey, you know, typically, people who start isolating, who stopped texting me back, you know, or start, you know, start kind of lower in their mood a bit. Yeah, I just worry about people, because sometimes that leads to thoughts of suicide. So I just want you to know that if you think about suicide, I'm here for you. Let's talk. Because what that also does that opens the door for future conversations, if a person ever gets to that place, and they're like, Oh, that's awesome. I can talk to this person about it, right. But

Jessica Rose Johnson 52:44

again, somebody cares, too. If they're not at that point, if they do get to that point, they might be like, oh, oh, you know, what? Somebody does care about me? You know, Jessica Rose asked me, you know, six months ago, and so I know she cares.

Jessica Rose Johnson 53:01

Yeah. And having that caring person that leads to another don't that I recommend is don't relate, validate. Because a lot of the times what happens is, is you may be the only person who has opened that door to communicate, I would say 99.9% of the interventions that I've done, so much just need to tell their story and get it off their chest. I had this poor guy who told me the worst story I've ever heard in my life up until this point. And I just said, No, that really fucking sucks. And he said, Yes, yes, it does. And I was kind of shocked because I'm over here. Like, I got, I got nothing to respond. Right now. I'm just in shock what this guy has shared with me. And then the guy shared with me, he said, you know, everyone else I've talked to you blames me for it. Oh, wait. He said, Yeah. All of my friends and family are like, Well, you shouldn't have done this. You shouldn't have done that. If you would have done what I told you to do. All he needed was for somebody to validate, dude, your life fucking sucks right now, man. I'm here to listen, like, what can I do? Can I take you for coffee? But a lot of times what we do, going back to this, like tribal not living in silos, we try so hard to relate to make a connection, that sometimes that's actually breaking that connection. So we can validate the pain. And we can say, Man, this sucks. What can I do for you? Can we go for coffee? Do you want to go for a walk? You know, something like that? Rather than what we typically do is say, Oh man, I've totally been there before. Or I have a very similar situation or my cousin has a very similar situation. And then we take the attention that the person's soul needs, we take that attention off of them. And we put it on to us thinking that we are creating a relationship by relating to them, but we're actually breaking the relationship and we're losing that validate that that person needs especially especially if that person is in such a crisis in their head that they're in so much emotional pain that they'd rather be dead than alive. Validate don't relate. So ask directly. Validate don't relate are kind of my two biggest things that I want people to, to learn and take in and retain, from all of the randomness that I have talked about.

Jessica Rose Johnson 55:26

You've almost got me speechless over here. That's not good for a podcaster. Like I'm almost to the point of like, fist pumping, and like, yeah, that's, I mean, there's makes too much sense. It's back just never really heard it kind of in that way. But it totally makes sense. And we've all been in conversations where people, it almost like a one upper kind of thing. Yeah, I was okay. I've been there. You know, like, yeah, my house burned down, and I lost my dog. And my, my spouse left me and I got fired from my job. And like, no, no happened to me in one week, too. Oh, for sure. Like, oh, I

Jessica Rose Johnson 56:08

had the exact same surgery as you. And I'm like, No, you didn't, I have a extremely rare case. And I had some pretty intense complications, that there were some legality issues that even came into play, you have no clue? Like, No, you do not have the same situation or, you know, I say this leveling because as a, as a caregiver, now I find myself advocating for a lot for that family piece of the military. Right, my husband is Navy, I don't think I actually said that yet. But my husband's Navy and really helping caretake for him while he's going through his second round with brain cancer. It's funny how everyone will come out of the woodwork that my so and so or so and so so and so they also have this cancer and this and this and that, I tell you what, for the first time today, I said this out loud. And it's so good to say a lot. So I'm gonna say it again. That brain cancer, my experience, so feel free to hate me or debate me, brain cancer is the worst cancer. And the reason for that is it's not just the chemo. It's not just my loved ones dying, he has this health issue, all the medical appointments. It's the fact that it deals with the brain. And as we're talking about these mental health crisis is right. And we get so overwhelmed with change, like, we know what it's like when we have PTSD and how our brains like that. Right? Same thing with brain cancer and the swelling, there's changes, and ability to do basic life things like communicate and have a conversation is affected. That's when it gets really shitty. So as everyone is coming, like, let me tell you about so and so who had liver cancer, breast cancer, prostate, and you know, the cousin and all these different things. I'm like, This is my husband, who has brain cancer, who has difficulty communicating some days as to what he wants to eat, or difficulty communicating some days on basic life, things that he needs. And that's what really sucks. So when we think about these, like one up stories, that's another example I have is everybody. Everybody wants to help. And by no means do I think anybody is maliciously, like, let me tell you about my AMS cousins, dogs story of their cancer, right? Is I think it goes back to that we're trying to relate because cancer, like suicide is one of those, like, uncomfortable, awkward words and things you don't really want to deal with. And you want to avoid. But it's part of life. So as much as all this advice is coming in, I'm also taking that cap on, like, nobody is giving me this advice maliciously or being mean. But it's also not helpful because they haven't been in my shoes. They don't understand my situation. Right, and

Jessica Rose Johnson 58:55

little mentally draining to, to have somebody do those kinds of things. Yeah. Because I can't relate to your situation. You know, people, people can't relate to my, my situation. And I know they are citizen, the podcast, my father died of cancer when I was 16. You know, and I remember that as a kid, people coming up, and I remember things like that are, like people just don't know what to say, when somebody has cancer or when they pass away from it or whatever. And it's just like us, so fucking awkward sometimes. Yeah. And you say, how do you know like, Are you a 16 year old boy who's you know? Like, no, like, if you know, I remember people coming up to me and it'd be like, oh, you know, it'd be okay. It's like, you're you're 55 and you lost your father. I'm 16 you know, your father was probably there for you for graduation and your first girlfriend and and, you know, for your wedding and just your grandkids and it's like, you know, you just can't relate. It's it's not apples, apples, apples to oranges. Just We all have different fingerprints. We all have different lives, different situations like No, no two things are the same.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:00:07

Well, I appreciate you willing to share that with the world at this point. My stuff's on the 16. And as you're saying that in my mind, I'm just thinking like, oh, yeah, like, my experience with this is different than his experience with this event. And he needs different supports than what I need. So that just like, I was like, man, like somebody else like losing, losing a parent so young, I'm was both my parents are still alive. So you're right. Like it, we all and, and that's something else to talk about, too, is like walking on the street, you have no clue what somebody is battling. I was in a meeting a week ago. And I was talking about issues with a caregiver supports. And this this also kind of ties in like mental health, how we're not, we used to so much that we're actually handicapping our support systems, that we're not including the families and the caregivers and physical health, definitely not mental health. And that's some of the biggest, strongest things that we need to recover. Right, is that family support piece? So I was talking about us in a meeting about some of the barriers and complications with caregiver support and the lack thereof. And you know, I said, my husband has brain cancer for the second time, and some people in the room who know me, were like, I had no, I had no clue. I had no clue you've been dealing with that. I I'm so sorry. They were shocked. Because every day, we all have our own life. We have our own battles that we're battling. And we step outside our house, or we answer that phone call, and we have no clue what's going on, on the other line, or in that person's life. So we're really trying to live our lives with more grace and understanding for other people. I mean, I'm sure that you have tons of things that you experience in your life, that change how you function and experience other things in life. Right? Absolutely.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:02:02

Everybody does. Yeah, ever, your entire environment, from the day you're born shapes exactly who you are in this moment. And guess what will shape how you are in the next.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:02:14

I like to think that there's learned traits. And then there's taught traits, there's those traits that we are told and taught. And, like this is, this is how you do this, and that, but then there's those learned ones that come from our experiences. We learn them through experiences, we've learned them through seeing, you know, we have this bad experience here, which shapes how we view things in the future. Or, you know, like, with my husband's health, it shapes how I view and interpret things, right? My own health, like, all these pieces, it really shapes how we interpret with other individuals, and how we live and move about our lives. And that's one thing when it comes to mental health that so many times people don't take that into consideration, like, Oh, that guy's a dick, or oh, she's being a bitch. You have no clue what she's battling. And I feel so good. So number storytime, as of the damn game. And I was getting my husband's handicap pass server sitting by myself, because it's really funny. There. There's a counter where it's like, oh, handicap houses here. So we're not like waiting in line forever in a day at the DMV. So I'm there I kind of pick it. I don't see anybody. But there's a battle that says, you know, ring for servicemen, oh, wait a few minutes and someone to walk up. So someone walks by and I'm like, Oh, hey, like, okay, they saw me they'll come back. A few months goes by, I'll maybe give the wrong person. Okay. So now by this time, there's a woman behind me. I guess it's time I ring the bell. And I go to ring the bell and the bell doesn't ring and I'm like, Oh, well, they put a binder clip on the belt. I thought, Oh my God. They're short staffed. The person in the back has no clue. I'm here. And this bell has a clip on it. They don't know that they're waiting to hear the bell to come up here. So I pick up the bell. And I go to take the binder clip off. tall hat mess. binder clip shoots under the little plastic counter. I'm juggling the bell. It's like the guy named me being criticized the bell down and out of nowhere. This woman who mean we're the girl behind me couldn't see pops out is like and she's on the phone. I'm so sorry. I didn't see you like you're just I'm thinking the poor person in the back has no clue. I'm standing here waiting because the bell. So, so embarrassed. The woman gets off the phone. She is super grumpy. clearly stressed out. She's got her own life as we're talking about right? So I am like, I'm so sorry. I'm just I'm so sorry. And then she's not having my apology. So I'm like, Okay, this is what I'm here for. So I sit down on the other girl who sits next to me. And she says me and she was mad. I said, Look, I don't know what's going on in her life. I've you my husband's dying, who knows what's going on in her life and I kind of laugh thought, oh my god, are you serious? And I said, Oh, yeah, I'm because I'm my husband, I'm brain cancer. And she's. And you're just laughing this off and like, totally okay that that woman was grumpy to you. And I'm like, again, I have no clue what's going on in her life. Her husband could have died last week. I don't know that

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:05:20

kind of in a terrible phone call she just received

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:05:22

exactly like we, we really have no clue. And if we take our energy and effort, and I'm not saying I'm perfect, because trust me, there are times I know my car. And I'm a person that's like, right. But there's other times where, you know, someone cuts me off. I'm just thinking, GPS on the last minute to turn. We've all been there, right? Anybody? I can't be the only person who just gone on autopilot. If you're like, oh, shoot, I totally meant to go the other direction. Or I acted. Like, you know, there's all these different.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:05:54

That's me right there. I totally do that I am. There's at least two of us in this world. Thank you guys. I will pass the the off ramp and like, Well, shit. I was supposed to turn there. But I you know, I'm just like, just cruising, just paying attention to the road, listen to music, you know, sometimes hands free Bluetooth talking, by the way, I don't know what, uh, you know, but just having a conversation with somebody through Bluetooth, as you're driving and paying attention. Like you just you don't see that. You know, I actually happened to me last week, I had to go like 10 miles out of my way. There was like, not another exit for, I think four and a half five miles. I was not happy when I realized when I passed.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:06:34

It is that that makes me think of so my, my father in law is diabetic. And he had a blood sugar crash. And he was driving. And a police officer had stopped him and pulled them over and called my husband and was like, Hey, I have her dad. Um, it was like two hours away from our house or like, what the heck, you know, is like this big deal. But the police officer recognized like, it's not, he's not drunk, there's something going on. We think it's a medical thing. It was like, Oh, he's diabetic. Like, he has an orange juice or some crackers. He should have some in his truck, or whatever the case ended up being. But that just makes me think too, is it's, there's so many different factors going on in the world that if we take that minute just to be compassionate, to care to maybe come off the autopilot. Right, when we're as we're going like, we have a mission.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:07:27

We're going to smell the roses for a minute. Right? Yeah. And I appreciate people notice life. Yeah. Yeah, like

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:07:35

100% If we could just thank you for being you. I appreciate you for what you do and who you are. I think it just daily like taking that one minute like, what one thing can I do to make this world a better place because I go back to that we we are the change every day, we are the change and our own world. And in the bigger world at large.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:08:02

You just got to go out of your way like I've noticed last couple years with with masks on now anybody can see my face, but you're out and about just smile because you know people can see it in your eyes. Like just smile be nice, thank you. I was I feel the day back a memorial it was but the the employee there was just you could just tell something was wrong. It was heavy, I was getting picked up. So food. And I was at the at the Chinese food counter. And he's just like, kind of fumbling through things not really making any eye contact, you know, and I was like, I got to make sure that I smile and say thank you to this guy. You know what I mean? You know, so I would just show that extra little bit of gratitude. And I was like, thank you. I appreciate that, you know, my wife can't get crab Rangoon without the sweet and sour sauce. Right? And he, he gets the cops. And then like the the cup is one size, but all the lids were a different size. And I could tell he was frustrated. And I'm like, I'm just trying to remember what I said. But I made some sort of joke about it. I'm like, well, they can't even equip you with the right stuff, can they? You know, and he got a little bit of a chuckle out of them. And like, I just saw just a little bit of a crack there. And it was like, oh, you know, maybe I'll make the guy's day a little bit better. I don't know, the guy probably never see him ever again in my life. Because it makes his day a little bit, you know, I thought was kind of funny. I was like, I mean

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:09:24

that little bit of life. You know, I mean, suicides, the everyday life stressors, working in a place where we don't appreciate you fast paced fast food, not having the right lead to the right cup and not really all these life stressors build in and create this emotional pain and pressure in our head that sometimes it takes one person to crack a light and that dark space for us to be able to see again.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:09:49

I think it's a little easier to when you when you've worked some sort of jobs or they were dying. nobody appreciates you. Because I was I mean in the Air Force. I was security forces. So I worked a lot of gates or a lot of flight lines, everybody Just kind of it's a Yeah, I got to show your roll my window down on the cold weather or the rain and show this guy ID

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:10:07

Oh yeah, I haven't. I get a little wet give me my ID who's standing out in the rain, I

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:10:12

always hated it too. And it'd be like, stay dry. All kinds of customers. Anybody under my breath right now to the general? Yeah, you know, or, you know, stay warm. Yeah, it's negative 10 Right now, yes.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:10:27

I don't have a heater over my head.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:10:29

We even had the heaters. And I'm like, you know, this only heats the top of your head, right? Like, in my head is warm, you know, but, you know, we would crack jokes about that all the time, I'm sure has changed in the career field. It's like, nobody appreciates us, you know, because we're just kind of in that fast paced world where we're doing our job, and nobody appreciates it. And then every now and then somebody would roll, you know, come up. And, you know, I mean, we'd have people like, just give us cookies sometimes. Or the chaplain would roll up in and as he'd be going out, or he would swing by, and he would say, how many people you got working today? Oh, there's four of us up here. Okay. And he come back later with like a dozen donuts and be like, well, by my mouth, there's a couple of in here for each of you, and maybe call your flight chief now. Give him one, two, you know, and, and it was just like, well, thanks. Where they, you know, bring some hot chocolate up there for everybody. You know, it's like, appreciate it just made my day a little bit better today.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:11:29

Yeah, that that just that little, little, little bit, a little bit, could save a life. And in the US, we lose over 300 people a day when you combined suicide and overdoses together. And the reason I advocate for that piece, which I haven't I haven't talked about today is that most overdoses aren't rolled suicides. So in most states, in order for an overdose, we rolled a suicide there had been a note because of intent, oh, we can't prove intent. I just

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:12:04

thought about it like that. Yeah. Then

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:12:06

what happens is, is we take the data that we have, so the called suicides, right, the ones that are actually ruled suicide. And we say of these, these are all like, these are the means that people die from. So we need to focus all of our efforts on this. We're missing this critical piece over here. So like with suicides in the US, we lose 133 people a day, on average, right, averaging it out. So you can look. Right, overdoses in the US 194. But of those overdoses, we don't really know which ones of those were suicides, and depending on your viewpoint, that's a whole nother conversation we talk a whole hour about but

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:12:48

a lot of data you never you'll never get there. You know,

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:12:51

just like, I wanted to throw that little tidbit in there as to why I put them together is because those are wives that we could save with everyday actions, taking that extra bit of time and talking to our friends, if they're like, Oh, I'm in so much pain. Hey, have you tried this? Over here? Have you tried this, this worked for me, you know, whatever the case may be because over 300 lives a day in the US. Now we really want to put paint the picture as we're talking about battle buddies here, right? If we talk specifically those who are still serving in the military, we lost over 520 20 to suicide. So it's all these lives that we're losing, when simple acts can change the world. It can change someone's world. One of the text messages that I got from someone I'll never forget, because it was literally like, oh, like that's some of my verbiage. And you don't even know. They said, hey, it's so and so I know, we haven't talked in a few months. I just wanted to let you know, the resource I gave you helped me this not worked out. You may not be able to change the whole world, but you changed my entire world. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like that, just like it. You know, there's so much. Now what I do is I you know, I work for myself. I have my own company because I'm just trying to advocate I'm trying to do my part. I'm doing suicide prevention, education trainings for first responders, law enforcement, fire, EMS, military, veterans and families, caregivers, all that jazz, right? Like always doing these trainings to where we can we can educate people look more for the signs. What do you do when someone says yes, and just empowering the everyday human being to be a human and save lives through simple acts of kindness.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:14:48

Yeah, just communicating, just just talking to people. Absolutely. Now you kind of mentioned on the training. You got a couple of different training things that you do. One of them is the Your first level is going to start, is that right? And then you have a level, what's the difference between those two levels as somebody who's interested in getting the training, so I

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:15:09

am accredited through an international evidence based company. And start is our online program. It's like 60 to 90 minutes, you can do it on your own online, if you want to have a follow up call after you completed to talk about things, we can set that up. And then the next level is safe talk. It's about three to four hours, and it's an in person. So we'll start it's more like, hey, suicides problem, Geisha didn't know, here's some things to look for. And so like really short condensed, but then you have safe talk, where we talk a lot more about suicide, asking the question, and then the referring out. So you've asked somebody, they've said, yes. How do you get them to someone who can help from there. And then my real like, like the next level training, which is my favorite is assist. It's applied suicide intervention skills training, it is two eight hour days that will change your life, where if I plugged it, like we literally take someone who knew nothing about suicide, and empower them, and teach them and train them, to be able to not only ask someone if they're thinking about suicide, but after someone says yes, being able to help calm them down, and then get them to lifelong supports. So kind of being that person that actually helps create a safety plan helps get them safe in that moment, to then get them to the further care that they may need. So those are three, like I said, it's international evidence based company. I absolutely love them, obviously good. Like, I teach their trainings and assist as my favorite, but I understand it as a time commitment, because it's two eight hour days. And this is taught all over the world. Something like 36 languages. I currently only teach it in one

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:16:53

well, I love yourself.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:16:55

I used to be an interpreter. So I used to know a sign language now you know, you don't use it, you lose it. And I also used to speak a lot of Spanish you don't use it, you lose it and Hebrew, so conversational level level languages.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:17:08

Spanish is usually around where's the bathroom? And bring me no cerveza. It's about all I remember how to say in Spanish. I will talk we'll use my Spanish skills on the podcast because I did probably pronounce something wrong. But oh,

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:17:22

yeah, I'm one of the first Spanish words I said was wrong. I meant to say poketo for little, but I said Mockito, which apparently was like Booger or something like that. And the group I was with was dying. laughing because I had no clue. I said it wrong. And they weren't telling me they just thought it was great.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:17:44

Yeah, yeah, it'll it'll change by where you where you're speaking to speak in Spanish to different dialects and cultures and stuff. So most of mine, most of mine was used on an Ecuador, I'm sure it's different than most others. But so for people that are that are interested in those programs, so those on your website, I've got a scrolling at the bottom for those that are.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:18:02

Yeah, so I mostly have a cyst on my website, I do do the other ones. Let's start the online one. So you can reach out to me, there's a contact form on my website. So if you're interested in any of them, if you want to find one that's in your area, if you want to schedule one specifically with me, I do travel teach. So there's a contact form, you can fill all that information out, I can get you more details on it. I also do other things that are more accustomed to what your needs are your company because sometimes the word suicide is scary. So I actually I write for a magazine that I can't say the word suicide in the title because the magazine considers that a trigger word. So all the articles that I've written for a lot of magazines, I just call it the big S. So really starting that conversation. So if that's something if your organization or your company wants to talk about mental health, but think like, suicide is too much, I have some other talks that I do as well to start that conversation about mental health and be able to move forward and improve workplace environments for mental health.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:19:05

Awesome. Yeah. So it's it's time we talk more freely about mental health and suicide and, and all these other mental health related things like, you know, schizophrenia, and bipolar, PTSD and TBI, and all these different things that can affect the brain, it's time to be, we'd be more open about these kinds of things. So that's why I love this topic. And that's why when we first started talking, I was like, slam dunk. I got to have her on because this is this is the like I said earlier, it's like the the one bull's eye on on veterans that a lot of civilians don't really know us or understand us, but they know now I think through awareness, not that I'm a fan of doing 22 Push Ups hold does is make awareness and maybe maybe make you sore muscle. I think a has had an effect on letting the general population of the United States you know, aware that there is a problem with suicide among veterans. That's, that's a good first step. It doesn't do much to change that number from two to 21 or 20. Or any number below that. But we'll get there baby steps. So

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:20:12

I like to think of the Cheshire Cat. You know, he says, We're all mad here. Like that person's crazy. We're all crazy. And we're just our own kind of crazy. And we cope with it, and we handle it in a different way. So really just having those conversations, there's so many conversations that we stigmatize What, oh, it's so much energy. Right? The more we make something taboo, the more it becomes a problem.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:20:38

You know, what I've always said, what is normal? Yeah, yeah, they're, they're normal.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:20:45

There is no normal, like, we are unique. We are all our own fingerprints. I love that you made earlier.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:20:51

Yeah, absolutely. So since we're on the topic of suicide, I will say, first of all, thank you for being here. But for those that are reaching out to play the ending screen here in a minute, as we wrap up, the National Suicide Hotline, number is on that. And I always play that at the end of the episode. So you know, if you happen to be having those thoughts, that is another resource that's out there. So make sure you call, you can text, I believe I have the text number on there as well. At this point, I should probably read that off the top of my head, is the final nugget about the brain, you're certainly

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:21:24

spoiler alert, there's actually a three digit number that has been improved, that is going to be implemented very soon. So some states are rolling out this new three digit number within the next six months. So really excited for that. Another thing is a 211. So your local, it's like in between 911 and 411, that they can help you find resources. So you can call them and you can even talk to them. Like I said, talk it out, I totally advocate for it. Even if you are not in crisis, I would say call the crisis line. So you know what it sounds like, you know what it feels like, while you're in a calmer state. So you can help yourself a loved one or a friend, when they are in crisis. Ask your crisis center. Hey, what kind of resources would you offer? How does the conversation go like this? And how can you be an advocate for the crisis line number for other people. So it's a great way to get an unbiased, right unbiased opinion. Just get something off your chest to talk it out to reduce your anxiety, reduce your stress and your feelings of overwhelmingness

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:22:26

then and don't forget that I know your website is my website is the resources, just one of many. I've got a page on there about mental health, I'm trying to always add to it. So I will put it out there to anybody who's listening or watching in the future. Go to my website, battle buddy podcast, dotnet, go to it, find that, let me know if there's something I'm missing on there. Because it literally is a resource for everybody. I want to have the best resources I can on there to help people. So if you're aware something and I'm not, please bring it to my attention. Please, please, please. Because it you know, it's not about me, it's about finding that that other person that helps, and you never know who it's going to be or when it's going to be. So

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:23:04

resources are like flavors of ice cream, you just got to find the one that's your flavor.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:23:09

Absolutely. There's a ton of them out there. And I know, I know right now, I'll be awful. I'll be flat out honest. My website when it comes to those resources is probably chocolate, vanilla strawberry at this point, right. You know, there's other resources out there, there's, you know, MIT chocolate chip and rocky road and all those other loose drops. I'm not a big ice cream fan. It's probably as far as I could stretch. Myself, neither am I. But you know, I think everybody gets the point of like, there's a lot of different resources out there. There's nonprofits, there's advocacy groups, they're out there, right? There's, there's a ton of great content on it. So but, you know, once again, I appreciate you being here. And I look forward to to take some of that training myself. I think I'm going to do that start thing. I think every every veteran out there that will be my challenge to everybody is educate yourself in some way, shape, or form whether or not you want to take a training or pay for training or whatever, at least educate yourself. Yeah, there's somebody out there and never know when a battle buddy on DJ.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:24:10

Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. Thank you so much for this podcast, being able to have conversations with various topics that you're really helping people. I'm sure that you've helped change a lot of lives in every episode, and you'll just never know the ripple effect that you've made. So thank you for having me and for what you do with this podcast.

Jessica Rose Johnson 1:24:30

Thank you. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai