There are many ways to help deal with PTSD, anxiety, or depression. Each person needs to find what works for them. Healing with psychedelic plant medicine may not be for everyone, but it could work for some. Join my guest Seth Conner and me as we discuss how and why using plant medicine could help some veterans who have tried other treatment options to no avail.

Guest Links:

www.sethconner.com

www.executiveentheogen.com

Transcript from Episode 9 with Seth Conner:

Keith McKeever 0:11

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the battle buddy Podcast. I'm really excited to have Seth Connor with me today we're going to talk about something that may not be for everybody, but it's psychedelic plant medicine. And as you know, it's important to keep in mind that, once again, this is not for everybody. But for those people who have maybe experimented with other things and they have failed, this may be the option for you maybe something that you need to take a look into. Because this could really help help with whatever issues that you're dealing with. So without further ado, we're gonna we're gonna bring him in here a second, I do need to make an announcement real quick, please don't forget to to go out check Project diehard.org. They're doing some amazing things, trying to set up a facility in Southern Illinois and one in Kentucky to help how single and family based veterans free of charge to get them the help that they need. And I just want to kind of give a little plug out for them and the amazing work that they're trying to do to get this set up. So go visit Project diehard.org. And see if you could support them in any way that they need it right now. They're looking for some financial donors to help get the insurance and some other things set up so that they can actually go start renovating this building that they were donated. So it's a great, great cause. So go give go give them a go check them out. They're a project diehard. And let's get this show started. Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. Alright, Seth, welcome to the battle buddy Podcast. I'm really excited to have you here. Go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, where are you? Where are you from? And you know, what was? What was your military journey? Where what got you to the point you're at now?

Seth Conner 1:55

Well, Keith, thank you so much for having me and for inviting me on your podcast. I really appreciate all the work that you're doing. For fellow veterans like us. So, um, yeah, I grew up in Colorado. And as soon as I graduated high school, I was done. I wanted to be done with school, I want to travel the world, and not have anything to do with the military. And that's kind of a funny thing, just because of where life takes us. But it was actually 911. That gave me the emotional reaction that led me to join the Marine Corps. You know, actually, I did the paperwork, I try to get the recruiters off my back just by doing the paperwork and like hoping that a year will go by and, you know, it'll all expire and they leave me alone.

Keith McKeever 2:45

That's all the time. Right? Right. It

Seth Conner 2:47

was just, I just didn't want to have I didn't like the whole idea of, you know, authority. Yeah, I was one of those kids. But I went on 11 happened. I had such an emotional response to it that I called the recruiter and just said, How soon can you get me in. And I was in, you know, standing on the yellow footprints in San Diego, the Marine Corps depot there within a month. And so that started everything and ended up going to I went to Japan first for deployment before everything began to kind of run downhill. But I came back from Japan, just as we were about to invade Baghdad, invade Iraq, did not get to be a part of the first invasion, however, was what did have the opportunity to go to if to and I was stationed in Fallujah, Iraq, I ended up I was with amphibious assault. So I was I was combat capable. We were doing personnel carriers, and, you know, land and water capable. And like, you know, some, you know, like a good handful of us, we saw, we saw a lot of stuff that people are not really built to see, you know, and experience, unfortunately, especially as a young kid, you know, we were, most of us were young, we were late teens and early 20s. But was over there ended up coming back and writing or publishing a book about it. I don't think I actually mentioned that to you. But no, you know, I was so long ago, it was essentially a kept a journal over there, I was very much into journaling, which I still am today. And we can get into that just on the therapeutic side, but kept a journal over there. And when I came back, it was my dad's idea. He said, you know, can you What do you think about just publishing that? And had a friend that was in publishing at the time, small micro press, and we put it together and it's called, boredom by day death by night and Iraq War Journal. And it was pretty relevant at the time. Just because of, you know, the climate about, you know, oh, social climate at that time. I mean, we had, you know, Berkeley had the code pinkos going on at that time where they were trying to kick out the the recruit state recruitment stations in Berkeley. And we did a town hall piece. We've written a town hall piece for that on if you know if you're familiar with Town Hall, the conservative forum, online forum, and then I also had what's his name? John Stewart of The Daily Show? Yeah, contact me and wanted me on to come on and talk about the book, I refuse to do it. I was like, I'm not gonna let my debut be sitting with that guy. And I'm getting roasted. So I decided to go on a snowboard trip. And so

Keith McKeever 5:40

there's no doubt about that. That would have been stressful. You will need to do what? Yeah, let's show that hey, oh, no, yeah, not probably felt the same way, honestly.

Seth Conner 5:49

So yeah, I turned that one down. But But regardless, I kind of around that time was becoming aware of depression, anxiety, PTSD, what does that look like? I didn't know at the time, there was really not a whole lot, a whole lot of language for us to have at that time, that help us understand kind of what we were feeling and what we were experiencing. And, you know, why is it that for a year after I got back, I would jump every time there'd be a loud noise or something in the room that you know that that was loud, and nobody else jumped, but I did you know, or I can't get past 60 miles an hour on the freeway, because we didn't really get you know, drive our Humvees 60, you know, over 60 miles an hour on the on the highways, a bat, you know, in Iran, totally. So, um, so yeah, so I began to get language for that, about 10 years ago began to get counseling and, and help for it. And that's kind of where it began. So you raise

Keith McKeever 6:49

a really good point about like, kind of defining, like PTSD, depression, anxiety, like those things. Maybe it's because I'm young. But I think really, the war on terror, and the research that's kind of come about because of that, has really pushed that forward a lot, a lot of understanding of what that is, and what or experiences do to people. And it doesn't have to be war experiences, either. Obviously, for those things, it could be all kinds of different things. But I think that has really pushed the research forward. And people are more, maybe a little bit more willing now than they were 1520 years ago to talk about mental health. And these different things that are my layman's way of, I guess, explain is it's just a natural reaction to the environment that you're in what you're exposed, exposed to, and how your body takes it. You know, because how you felt about things is would have been totally different than the Marines next to you on your left and your right and behind you, whatever. So, you know, we all just experience things differently. But, guys, yeah, it's come out of the work. My guess if you want to look at things on a positive note, you know, yeah, gain more experience, more knowledge in period, like, of the brain and how the brain works, and how the brain processes things from traumatic brain injuries and stuff to expanding that a little bit.

Seth Conner 8:11

Yeah, I mean, that I mean, there's no doubt that PTSD was experienced in any real, you know, wartime situation or conflict. Um, you know, I know that when veteran or military combat veterans came back from Vietnam, Korea, World War Two, like this, there just wasn't a language or wasn't understanding for so, you know, the Persian Gulf War. And now, you know, boy F one, two and Afghanistan like, it has, we have evolved, because out of necessity, and it's because people are paying attention to how many suicides there are on a daily basis, which, you know, year ago was, I think the average was like, 22. And now we're down to like, 18, which is great, because that means that there's movement forward, but it is it is our body's natural mechanism. It's a defense mechanism so that we don't completely combust, that we store trauma in our body, you know, and on a molecular level, I think it's an amazing, it's amazing what our machine or avatar or mietwagen here can do, but it can't stay there, you know, that that trauma has to be purged at some point. Because what happens is that pressure builds up, and we run into addiction and other other issues that plague us further on in life, you know, faulty relationship patterns that we just can't seem to get out of, you know, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, you know, those kinds of things that aren't healthy for us. But it's our way of coping because no one gave us an answer yet. And even after right before I got out of the military back in 2005, it was like, take this class, you know, take this class, talk to a chaplain once or twice, you're good to go. But you're not seeing the symptoms until maybe a year two, three years later. And by that time, you're You're far removed, and the VA has no clue how to handle it at that point, not that they have a great grasp on it still. But there's reform happening, you know? Yeah. So

Keith McKeever 10:10

I think it's, it's important to like, look at everything differently. I think movies and TV have not helped, in some ways of when you look at PTSD, specifically, they kind of want to show it as punching holes in walls, or pushing your spouse down the stairs. And he's really violent, destructive things. But sometimes in in most people, they're not, they are self destructive. Or maybe it's just the way that you snap at your children or your shorter people, or you have attention issues or, you know, it can manifest in so many different ways. But unfortunately, the media and throw some darts at, you know, TV and movies that they just show it in is one way. But that's not the reality of what the situation is. And you know, for years, sometimes you may not realize how you how you deal with things like some people, I know a lot of that will sit with their back to the back of a restaurant so they can see everybody coming in. I did that for a couple of years. And I don't do it really consciously, much anymore. I might unconsciously do it, I guess I don't know. It's been a while since I've been in a restaurant. But you know, but when you sit back and you think about it's like, do I do that? Do I not do that? I don't remember. It becomes such a habit that you don't really realize things anymore. But it's hard to explain sometimes why you do certain things did like I've only shared it a few times. Like after my first deployment. I was sleeping in my dorm room in Japan, because I was stationed at Yokota and this was maybe two to three weeks after getting back. Well, the dumpsters over there had like hydraulic hinges on them. And they weren't like American dumpsters versus, you know, plastic lid. And so they had this metal, there was one door that everybody knew the hinge was busted on. I'm dead asleep middle the day cuz I was working with kids. And I woke up standing on my feet because somebody had thrown their garbage away and that live slam shut and just subconscious reaction. I'm standing on my feet. My heart's just pumping. And I'm just like, What the fuck just happened? You know, where am I like, I'm immediately looking around like, and I'll be honest, on my deployment, I didn't really care most of the time. Sometimes we'd have incoming fire, I would just sit there and lay in bed and think, hey, it's my time to go. It's my time to go. I don't care anymore. And there I was in a in a safe spot. And it was just a garbage can lid basically. And here I am just like about to have a panic attack in my room wonder where the heck am i What's going on. So you just never know like when it's gonna hit you. I have issue a couple years ago, like fireworks fired off in a small town around Fourth of July, was about two weeks before somebody fired bottle rockets off in this small town. I pulled up this intersection, nobody's there. I'm starting to go and they explode right over my car. And I was like, oh, you know, I punched the gas. I ended up three quarters a mile down the road. And I pull over and I'm like, what, you know, why did I react like that? Like, what was that? I knew it was fireworks. Like, what else? Could it have been? You know? And so you just you know, and that was three or four years ago? You know, I've been out of military for 10 years, later this year. So it's like, I haven't been in a combat zone since Oh, nine. But

Seth Conner 13:24

do you still react that way?

Keith McKeever 13:28

Ah, boy. It just depends. I don't like fireworks in the first place. I've never really understood why fireworks are really all that popular. Like, just I don't I mean, yeah, maybe they're beautiful. I don't know, I don't really care. But I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I'm used to it when it's a couple of weeks before after. But if somebody were set something off, like right now in my neighborhood, I would have a very heightened alert

Seth Conner 13:55

alertness level for sure. And yeah, that's interesting, because I know the first few years that I got back. I never thought of fireworks. You know, I never got it gave it much thought other than like, ooh, it's pretty it's Fourth of July. But after you go there to a combat zone and you experience it, and you come back and you you you witness fireworks, maybe for the first time. I found it so fascinating how eerily similar it sounded to combat like I was I was actually brought back to you know, that time when I was in Fallujah, just by the sounds that fireworks were making. It was very weird. It's kind of that you know, flashback Fog of War type of thing. But it was very strange then. And I got to the point where I stopped jumping at loud stuff. And I my pendulum swung the other way. Were loud Things are crazy things could happen and I don't even move I don't even react. And I haven't heard of anybody else experienced that either. But I just thought it was a fast donating phenomenon like, Why did my pendulum swing to the other side there? That's I think that's part of it. I think it's still part of PTSD or coping, coping with it I don't know are you found

Keith McKeever 15:09

have found a way to deal with in one way or another, like, we have a good point about the fireworks, you know, I can sit there and watch them. Like I said, I don't really find them all that beautiful. So I don't really care. But there are, like, every one of them has an aspect to it. That sounds familiar. But everyone like, I don't know, 10% of them as they go up. And as they explode, it is like the sound is, is too close. You know, it's just like, wow, that sounds eerily familiar. And, like, my first time being shot at was in Kambou, kind of my first deployment and I we're there like a week, I'm up in a tower garden prisoners. And this guy comes up and he goes, Hey, you know, what are we supposed to do? Again, if we get shot at with rockets or mortars? And I'm like, Dude, you're standing in my tower, man, if they were shooting at us right now, I'd get the you know, what? Out of my tower, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, that's like, I'm just gonna put on my gear, you know, like, what else can I do? I can't leave this post. I got to sit here and just hope it doesn't hit me. And, like a minute later, dude, we just heard, you know, seven rounds. And I mean, they all shot over the base, but him and I just looked at each other, just eyes bulging out of our, you know, with first deployment for both of us. And we're like, what is hat? Like? That's real. Like, that's incoming rounds. We don't know where they're going. And he, I mean, he was He was pale white in the first place. He was a ghost. He was running down the steps, and he couldn't get out of there down to that bunker fast enough. You know, and I mean, I just, I just went in shack, and I don't even remember if the glass was even, you know, impact resistant or whatever. But I just went in here through my helmet vest on fast, I could just realize, okay, let's just, you know, hope they don't hit me. But you know how it is, like, once you've heard him, by the time you realize what's going on in and got your gear on? Like, the threads pretty much over? Like if Yeah, if you didn't hear it or feel it you fine. You know, unless there's a second round coming in. But

Seth Conner 17:08

those are the worst sounds, because you don't know where they're coming from? Or where they're gonna land.

Keith McKeever 17:12

Oh, yeah. You know, and then it was, it's worse when you don't have hero, you know, because I had that experience about halfway through that deployment where it hit the compound next to me. And there was, and I, I've actually never really told this story on on camera, but so that the compound next to us had, it was a communal. So there was 1000 prisoners, and some of them were late that day. And I was supply for my compound. So I was down at like the headquarters building. And the the, the Army Staff sergeant in charge of supply was given a briefing that was hot, like his 130 degrees that day, middle the morning. And we're all sat down there. And he gave this real quick supply brief. And he's like, You know what, screw it. It's hot. As you know what outside let's just let's just chill for a little bit. Because the Navy compounds, the Navy Ransome the Air Force we ran, oh, eight, nine, something like that compounds. And then the army had a few that they were doing. And so the Navy was late. So he's this way for the Navy and and we'll give them a briefing. So they show up and he starts his briefing. And all of a sudden, it's just like a building just picked up and slammed back to Earth. And everybody's ran out of the bunker. We knew it was close. And it hit the compound. Right, right next to mine and killed. I think the final death tally about a week later African people died in hospitals, nine prisoners were killed. Some like 65 were wounded. And make a long story short, they set the casualty collection point up right in the middle of the street. And, you know, I ran down there ran right past all that stuff, just to just to backup the guy that we had on the computer and give him some extra support. Because you know, but when you don't see it. I mean, we're just we're just sitting there one second, all of a sudden, it's just like the building just picks up and slams down. And we're like, Oh, shit. That was That was close. To close. They actually hit us this time. You know, we were small enough base most time they just shoot over us. But not that time. They Yeah. And definitely, you know, every time June comes around, I kind of start thinking about that early June. Memories just start coming back up. And it's like, man, it was crazy time. That was yeah, I refer to it honestly, is the longest day of my life. Yeah, it's, you know, it's like, it's that memory for me that it's like you can remember every single detail. I can remember almost every single step of everything to happen. And, you know, hell, it's 13 years later.

Seth Conner 19:32

So have you ever tried writing it down?

Keith McKeever 19:36

I have and I've actually thought about using my microphone and just kind of recording this the story I actually thought about writing a book at some point in time like of my life, you know, not to get into, you know, the whole life story, but just writing it just just recording it and then maybe sometime later transcribe it and put it into a book. But I did that and that's kind of what got me thinking about that. You said journaling, that deployment I wrote A lot of letters home. And, you know, I've waited like a week or two and unsend it, and my, my mom kept all of them. And, and I've still got them sitting here somewhere and when I read doing them, but it's just like, man, that place really was hell on earth. You know, it's it's as bad as you think being a being a prison guard in a prison camp with when I got there, I and I don't have an official number, but it was something like I was always told about 9000 prisoners when we left there was over 20. And, you know, just everyday the mind games, just the crazy stuff. You know, the riots, the the escape attempts, the incoming rounds every Friday morning, like clockwork, you know, it's just a stuff that you just never forget. But yeah, I did write a lot of those down. So I do have a lot, like, it fills in some of those gaps in my memory on some of those things, like, oh, shoot, I totally forgot that happened. You know, and I gotta admit, there was funny things that happened to like, there's good and bad. And every deployment, like you can find some humor and some in some crappy,

Seth Conner 21:01

so you have to, you have to find the humor in it. And I think that, you know, writing those things down, like you did is is part of, it's part of the healing process. You know, if you didn't do it initially, it is, you know, definitely part of the healing process afterwards, you have to purge it, it's one way of purging that trauma, you know, is writing it out and, and processing it. Very important. You know, when I work with folks, journaling is a big part of, of that, that coaching aspect of it, just necessary. So that's a

Keith McKeever 21:30

really good idea. And that is an extra nugget of information that I wasn't expecting today. written the book and your journal. So you know, there's some actionable advice for somebody right there. Like if you've got if you got these thoughts or stories, write it down, or grab yourself a microphone and record it. Because that's a that's actually something generations before us couldn't do like not I mean, I write books and stuff. But do you think it's specifically a voice like, do you think of what we're to veterans, Korean veterans, they couldn't come back from the war and really cost effectively record on video or audio, their story and tell their story, and get it down. And then you you fast forward generations. My grandfather on my dad's side was World War Two that I know he was in Italy, that's about all I know, I've got his jacket and stuff put away. But that's that's it. Nobody in the family really has any stories. And I'm still trying to track down his records, you know, figure out exactly where he was at and research the units and just get a little bit of a picture, you know, at least where he was at and what his units were doing. So

Seth Conner 22:29

well, that generation didn't really like to talk about it either. Oh, no, they didn't know how to talk about process. They didn't know how to process they didn't want to process their feelings. They kept it inside, it was just part of the generation. I think it was

Keith McKeever 22:39

referred to kind of as Shell Shock back. Yeah. And it just kind of brushed them off. They're just shell shocked, like you get over it. And that generation just kind of came back and just do what they need to do settle down. You know, we all know what happened in the 50s, prosperity suburbs, you know, 2.5 kids,

Seth Conner 22:55

closet closet drinking, and that to cope or process with it and hang out with your boys at the VFW? Yeah,

Keith McKeever 23:03

absolutely. And, and that's just kind of past generation to generation. And, you know, people still go to the VFW and American Legion to drink.

Seth Conner 23:12

You know, what, if they're there, if they're there, and that's therapy in its own in its own right, you're going and you're you're talking with guys that know how to speak your language, but you're talking about it, right? Hey, you got a little little drink little medicine, you know, with you to help get it out. But man, that's that's how they did therapy back then. And I kudos to them for even doing that. And not keeping it in. You know,

Keith McKeever 23:35

if it works, it works. It works. Now, if it crosses that line and becomes a problem, you know, you should examine that. But you know, that's a that's a good segue into what you know, the goal of our conversation here is is alcohol doesn't work for everybody. And other things don't work for everybody like cannabis. You know, while there's benefits to all of those different things. Psychedelic plant medicine so that that's probably captured a few people as we've been promoting this meet people for sharing this is probably confused a lot of people like what are they going to talk about psychedelic plant medicine? So what what does that look like?

Seth Conner 24:19

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you segwayed it with with alcohol just because, you know, I'm not I'm not vehemently against alcohol, but it is a major source of problems, whether you were military or not. It is a it is kind of the go to for dealing with trauma or avoiding issues in our life, right, just in a general blanket statement. Unfortunately, it's also it also contributes to a large amount of disease and death but also, you know, vehicular homicide or vehicular manslaughter. You know, people Die in domestic UI related yet domestic violence, there's just there's a lot of death contributed or related to alcohol use or abuse. However, it's not, you know, it's still legal. And it's it's there for the folks that use it responsibly with interest interesting is that we've got these other we've got these other medicines, if you will, that aren't legal, that are more beneficial to the healing process, that don't necessarily allow you to avoid your issues or avoid your problems, but help you deal with them and work through them. And yet, they aren't legal and they don't contribute to a death count. Really, they're not addictive, alcohol can be addictive. So there's a lot of there's a lot of benefits to this plant medicine. So what is it? Frankly, it is plants that when consumed or ingested or taken into the body, they occasion, a hallucinogen, a husen, hallucination, hallucination, hallucinatory experience, it's probably the best way to put it. It occasions in altered state. For what purpose? Right, the purpose is to essentially set aside the ego, or the part of the brain that's kind of the gatekeeper that thing that processes and, and judges and perceives and is, you know, filters out information, and really tries to protect us. It kind of puts that ego to the side and allows for the part of us the the empathic part of us to, to heal, to heal the trauma to heal, even physical ailments is happens occasionally. So the plant medicine really at that basic form, just to answer the question is, the ones that we're talking about are plants that are ancient, and occasion, a hallucinogenic response.

Keith McKeever 27:14

And then now, well, you're more specifically talking about because some people might be, you know, thinking of maybe a variety of different things like mushrooms and things like that. What would you find helpful is the Ayahuasca plant. And please don't let me spell that because I totally butchered that name. They'll call me out on it. Other Man, I should Google that first without a spell. And like, I would have never guessed that. But I do. So that's your sticker, and I entered W in it, but there's not okay. Right. It's definitely not how you expect to spell it. Um, but you know, it's very interesting to you know, that it's such a, I guess you could call it an ancient, like, medicinal form that comes from the jungles, you know, the Amazon from Peru, Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, you know, where the Amazon is? And it's a it's a volume, correct?

Seth Conner 28:15

Yeah, so I Alaska gets its name from the Ayahuasca vine. It is. It's one of two elements in the hallucinogenic brew. Yeah, the, the the Iowa Ayahuasca is something that a lot of veterans are experimenting with right now. They're moving in that direction. It's gained a lot of popularity in the last last 10 to 20 years. Back in the 50s, when mushrooms were discovered in Mexico, and, and were brought here and essentially it, I won't get into the history of it, but a Time article was written about it. And it it actually kind of broke open or started us in the direction of the hippie movement, if you will. That's classically psychedelic driven. Right? Absolutely. Right. So psilocybin mushrooms were kind of the beginning. But then people eventually found IO Oska with the indigenous tribes of like you said, Brazil and Peru and other countries in South America. And it's a, you know, at its at its basic level, it is the Ayahuasca vine, which has which contains a molecule called DMT. And it's dimethyl tryptamine. And, either Yeah, don't ask me either. But it's it's also been referred to as the spirit molecule. Now, DMT is found in nearly everything like it's found in our bodies. A large portion of it is found in our lungs. That's why you'll notice or you'll hear about folks that do a lot of breath work can actually occasion a psychedelic experience brief, but they are the Kemet. They're working with the chemical in their lungs. to have that experience, but it's also found in the pineal gland. In our brains. Now, it's almost an any, it's almost an all things. I think all organic material has DMT in it, some just have it more than others. So the Ayahuasca vine has the DMT molecule in it. But if you were to ingest it, like brew just the vine and ingest it, we actually have enzymes in our digestive tract in our stomach that break down the DMT doesn't allow it to be absorbed into our bloodstream. So if you just drink Ayahuasca by itself, nothing would happen. So what I don't know how they figured this out very, very long ago, they figured out to to brew the Ayahuasca vine with a Karuna leaf, and that your Karuna leaf actually has that enzyme inhibitor stops the enzyme in our stomach from blocking the DMT so that it can get into our bloodstream. And so that is that is the long and short of ayahuasca, but they work with so many different types of plants. I mean, they could work with, you know, Sampedro what chuma a cactus, which is kind of similar or in the same family as like peyote, which is more of the mescaline, mescaline containing and then there's, obviously psilocybin mushrooms are the popular ones, those three and then you might have heard of five Meo DMT, which is really a fast acting, but quick experience. And that can actually be extracted from certain. Well, I'll just say one of them is the Colorado Desert Toad, which has been kind of popular they can synthesize. What happens is through a defense mechanism, it excretes this chemical,

Keith McKeever 31:49

like a poison frog. Yep. Yep, just like that. Right. And everybody should just know there's poison frogs in Colorado.

Seth Conner 31:55

what's called the exact Oh, the Colorado Desert frog. So they're obviously there. But they're, they're in that similar kind of climate to kind of Colorado Desert, kind of, you know, drier climate.

Keith McKeever 32:08

It's another one for me. Yeah. But yeah,

Seth Conner 32:09

I mean, they're in Mexico too. And, you know, from Colorado down to Mexico, you can find them but you, essentially, you just kind of like, work with that medicine, it gives you a very deep, deep experience. But it only lasts about 20 to 30 minutes, whereas working with Ayahuasca could be six to eight hours. Peyote and San Pedro could be longer than that. So I Alaska is just kind of the more popularized one right now. And there's a lot of retreats popping up around the country, like you don't even have to go to South America anymore to experience working with this medicine.

Keith McKeever 32:49

It's good, because not everybody can afford to go to South America. I can only imagine the cost of the plane tickets might eliminate a few people from being able to partake in

Seth Conner 33:00

it. You know, they're actually not too bad right now. It's like $500 round trip ticket. Of course, you know,

Keith McKeever 33:05

nobody's flying right now. The airlines. You got a party of five will fly you down here. No big deal. Right. Right. You know that Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, that's good point. Yeah. If it's safe to fly, but then go on that one a whole nother day. But I do want to back up your you know, you said like, I don't know how they discovered that. I got a couple theories. First of all, the the Amazonian tribal people must have had prisoners, and they're like, we're gonna try a bunch of things to see what happens. Or they just sat around one day, and somebody discovered by accident, and somebody just sitting there going through the whole process, and they're like, Hey, what happened to him? Right? What? What this guy drank? Yeah. talking all this philosophy. I know, what's, what's up with this guy. It had to have happened that way that I would put my money on that, that it was a total accident, and somebody was going through the experience and everybody else in the villages like, what the hell happened to this guy? Right?

Seth Conner 33:57

What's the right dude over here, man? So many different options.

Keith McKeever 34:01

Oh, yeah. Anything gonna happen? Yeah, just say, you know, just whatever you feel in your head. Right. Might be what happened happened? Right. So well,

Seth Conner 34:12

they would probably say that the spirit of the plants called to them or or imparted that wisdom to them.

Keith McKeever 34:20

Yeah. But somebody discovered it on accident. Yeah. Well, I'm

Seth Conner 34:23

sure I'm sure there's been plenty of those cases.

Keith McKeever 34:27

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I mean, people have, you know, at all, you know, all joking aside, I mean, people have been living in the Amazonian rainforest. There's still tribes that are undiscovered, you know, and the fact that they've been able to survive without modern medicine and all those things just is a testament to their creativity, in trying to find what works for them to keep themselves alive. Like it's just, it's crazy to think about it 2021 That there is literally people in this world who are living that kind of lifestyle, I guess Should you say like such a basic, Neanderthal ik tribal lifestyle, like, you know, don't want that sound bad, you know, they're, they're living their life and doing their thing and that's good for them. But like, it's hard to imagine is we're on a video chat in the middle of a global pandemic talking about this, and they could be completely excluded and have no clue what's going on.

Seth Conner 35:20

And yet, they are living a better quality of life, they have zero depression, zero anxiety, they have longer, you know, a greater longevity, and, you know, longer lifespan and disease free, you know, like, the, the, the white man's disease is not made it to, to them in their, you know, in their nuclei of within the Amazon,

Keith McKeever 35:43

unless, for a long time for them in their society. So agreed. So back to the like the brain and like, how does this How does the Ayahuasca in particular, how does that help interact with the brain. And in the process of going through this ritual?

Seth Conner 36:01

We know what's fascinating is the molecular makeup of DMT is very closely related, very similar to the the molecular makeup of serotonin. And so, we have receptors in the brain that essentially fit like puzzle pieces. With a serotonin molecule, we're just meant to work with that chemical in our brain, right? We didn't have it there, you know, things would be very difficult for us. And so because that model molecular structures is very similar to serotonin, one has to argue that we were meant to work with DMT on a regular basis, maybe. But they, you know, why would they fit so closely together? Why do these receptors work with DMT if we weren't supposed to use them. So what happens is when working with these psychedelic plants, and I just want to make real quick, like plant medicine, or psychedelic plants, the actual term is entheogen, psychedelic was actually a term that was created back in the 50s, I believe, before the hippie movement even started, the hippie movement actually made the term psychedelic, as popularized as it is today. But it was just something that like, two doctors were kind of going back and forth, kind of, kind of jokingly a little bit, and one of them used the word psychedelic. And it just obviously, eventually, you know, stayed that way. But in Theo Jin en THEOGN, and theologian is the proper word or term for plant medicine. So when working with these entheogens, the what's going on is it's causing the synapses and the neurotransmitters to be firing on a more efficient basis. Right? Um, I am not an expert in this at all in the science of it. But what has been shown when doing what is it? EKGs EKG or

Keith McKeever 38:02

ECG? Yeah, sounds good to me. Yeah.

Seth Conner 38:05

It's, it's one of those terms, if anybody's listening. Yeah, they know what that is. Exactly. I think it's, he can

Keith McKeever 38:12

be a neurosurgeon and tune in tonight, you know, please, please leave a comment.

Seth Conner 38:16

Right. But it maps the brain in it. And what it revealed was that when working with this, these, these molecules, this plant medicine, that those are firing at a much more efficient way. So what does that mean for us, that just means that we are able to recall better we're able to problem solve better. We're able to allow the systems and natural systems of our of our body and our mind to work more efficiently, at a multitude of things healing, purging trauma. Yeah, there's, there's just so many things that when our brain works optimally, so many amazing things happen within our whole person, or whole being, I mean, these, these meat wagons of ours, are highly effective at healing themselves. The problem is, we really give ourselves the opportunity to do that, because we're like, you know, eating like shit. We're breathing in toxins, you know, heavy metals from whatever they're shooting over us in the sky. Water, you know, you know, neurotoxins in the water, whatever it might

Keith McKeever 39:22

be fast food is not nourishing, and it's not one of the five food groups. Yeah, it's not it's not making us optimal performance like life.

Seth Conner 39:33

Well, I mean, if you've got a tomato, and you know, some lettuce on your hamburger, you're gonna step closer

Keith McKeever 39:39

it's the food or the food food plate or whatever they call it these days right? That's right. You're gonna have your fast food on that plate. Well, man not with arches or you know, kings in it or anything. Yeah, don't

Seth Conner 39:53

don't get me started. But you know, you you eliminate those things. You give yourself a you know, greater Fighting Chance But we're also been given this these plants from day one. You know, since mothers since Mother Earth started, right, we've been given these plants to help us have a greater fighting chance, right? And each thing is different. I mean, you superfoods became very, very popular in the last few decades, right. But there's a lot of plants out there that maybe we're not even familiar with yet that can help us become you know, better can live longer and live more healthier lives. This is just one aspect of that, that Mother Nature has given to us to heal ourselves from the inside out, really. And so when our brains working more optimally, we can actually heal ourselves quicker.

Keith McKeever 40:43

My brains actually working right now. And I, what I've taken from that is mother nature. She told us in the beginning to eat our vegetables, you know, here's your vegetables, take it and we said, No, we want the cheeseburger over there, right? We're saying grab the stick a little bit over the head. Because real meat tastes better? No, no offense to any vegans or vegetarians. Do you like vegetables to equal opportunity to eat or over here? But no, that's where my brain went there for a second. But, you know, you got a good point, like there's mother nature has provided these different things. And we've, you know, found over millions of years, you know, what plants we can eat, what plants we can't eat, what animals we can eat and candy, you know? And so, if it's safe to do in one way, shape, or form, like why not, why not try it if it nourishes your body, or helps you heal whatever. So. So you said, I WASC is a vine, and we know it, you know, opens up things, the synapses in your brain let you heal and trauma, but what do they actually do with that find the brewing process, the rituals around that can kind of paint that picture for us.

Seth Conner 41:55

Yeah, I mean, because the, the, the plant has come out of that indigenous culture. Most folks that work with it, want to retain the customs and the traditions and the the rituals that accompany that. And so, you know, most of them, hopefully, are working with the tribes going down and actually at, you know, being coming a part of the culture, becoming a part of their family, and really understanding the practice of it before they go and, you know, bring it up stateside, and, you know, offer it, but there's a lot that goes into it, you know, there's preparation beforehand, you know, sometimes weeks beforehand, dietary preparation, eating, cutting out certain foods, and only eating certain foods, fasting, drinking lots of water, you know, things like that, to just kind of prepare the body to start working with the medicine. And then during the ceremony, a lot of it is, you know, there's just certain rituals that you would expect, through music, and prayers, and welcoming in different spirits of the of the jungle. You know, there's just there's a, it's, it's different from tribe to tribe, but it's important to have those rituals to kind of honor the medicine honor the plants that you're working with. That's very important to them, in their, in their culture. And so I, I would not want to venture away from that, and use this substance in another way. So, yeah, I hope that answered your question.

Keith McKeever 43:30

Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's great. Because I think you have a really good point, like, you don't want to just go use it to use it. Like, I think, from my perspective, there could be a lot of value to people going through that process. Because you've told me before that it's should be a guided process, there should be somebody there to, you know, not, not necessarily hold your hand, but guide you through that process, mature years, you're fine, you're safe, that you don't wander off or go do something dangerous, or, you know, whatever. But like just the ritual of that, like it's a holistic, you know, approach. I guess it's kind of like you know, eating well rounded diet, like, you know, you get take care of your body, you got to nourish your body, but eating a cheeseburger for every single meals is nourishing, but it's not effectively nourishing, you know, you're not getting all your vitamins and stuff like that, like, not walking me through that process. You know, just so it's a I think that's very important. And I think that going with a group of people could also be helpful and healing to people. If you've got a group but I know somebody were talking about before we started, that goes down there group people, every single year goes to Peru and does this. It was actually neat to have found not one but you know, two or three people that go go do this and find the benefit of it. But just going down here as a group and spending time together, not necessarily in The ritual and the process, but a couple of days before a couple of days after, especially for vets, and you get a chance to just kind of hang out and unwind and, and, and build connections, you know, which is helpful too. Because sometimes that's, that's a huge part of it is building a connection, those people that are with you, you know,

Seth Conner 45:20

what community, his community is a big part of it, you wouldn't find anybody working with the medicine down in the Amazon, in isolation, necessarily. Some some instances, you would if they were if they had a long history with the medicine, and maybe they were, you know, essentially training to become a shaman, you'll see that in rare instances within the tribal culture, but majority of the time it is a community event. And so, you know, veterans that do it together, veterans, helping veterans, and having that community and building that relationship around the context of working with Ayahuasca is so healing and so beneficial. I know, like, you know, we were talking about we know, a group of guys that do that to go down to Peru at least once a year. And, and do it together. And I know a lot of veterans that are moving in this direction, and it probably comes from I don't know if you're familiar with it, there's a documentary that came out a few years ago, called from shocked Ah, no, yeah, that was that was a, it's a fairly groundbreaking documentary, especially in this in this realm. Because it followed, you know, a handful of veterans with their Ayahuasca ceremony, and, and also a little bit of working with MDMA, which is interesting because MDMA is getting some traction with being assisted, you know, MDMA assisted therapy for veterans is getting a bit of a nod, you know, lately with the VA, but also with just kind of the federal regulations kind of easing up. And there's even even a budget that's been allocated to the VA for MDMA, assisted therapy programs. So there's movement in regards to the legislation, with working with psychedelics,

Keith McKeever 47:17

that's awesome. What was the name of that? I'm going to put that on a banner. For everybody. Tonight. It was the name of that documentary.

Seth Conner 47:23

Yeah, it's called from shock to ah, there's a couple others out there. Not necessarily in the veterans side, this is more geared towards veterans. So I know a lot of veterans listen to this podcast. And so that'd be something to look up for. Sure.

Keith McKeever 47:40

Yeah, we'll just leave that up there. Yeah, I'm gonna go check that out. Now. I was about to write it down. I was like, Oh, I got to put this up here for everybody. Because I'm gonna have to go check it out. See if I can find it online somewhere, I'm sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

it should be one of the first to show up.

So what is this? What is this, you know, guided process look like it? I guess I get a picture in my mind, if you go to South America, do it. But you know, maybe the United States is look different. Usually smaller. How's that? How's that? Really? Look, you know, the person guide you through the shaman and all that?

Seth Conner 48:14

Yeah, I mean, they're, they're all They're all different. You might find some that are as small as you know, four or five people all the way up to potentially 30. As you get to the the larger numbers you're going to have you're going to need more facilitators, more guides people helping the the shaman or the the primary facilitator. And you're looking at maybe like at least one person to kind of oversee about five people. And there's, you know, there's a reason for that, because, you know, a lot of people are wrapped up with the fear of having a bad trip. And, and what is key and what should be a part of every conversation with regarding psychedelics, plant medicine, entheogens is the idea of set and setting. Anybody that talks about psychedelics that's been around long enough, knows that that's just like a household term. And it's important to talk about that because it will lead into the talk about having a bad trip. So set is your mindset. Where are you going into the experience? What is your mindset going into the experience, right? Is it fearful? Is that anxious? You're going to come in with some nervousness, but you know, are you are you super scared? Or are you super distracted? Okay, having that mindset within all scared category, and you know what,

Keith McKeever 49:31

well idea that I can see the benefits totally. But just the idea of going through that would be like, well, like I'm so nervous for what can happen.

Seth Conner 49:40

Yeah. And that's all normal and natural. But coming to a place where you relinquish control. That's the hard part of just letting go and letting whatever happens happen, right. Allow yourself to work with the medicine and take you where you want to go. You You taking yourself where you want to go. It's it's that point where people start to fight the experience, that's typically where a bad trip starts to show up is because people have a hard time letting go of control, and just letting be. But man, that's probably the biggest lesson that a lot of us need to learn just to let go, let go of control, especially the things we can't control. And that's a great way to do it. But that's mindset set and setting setting is just your environment, you know, are what is it? Who are you sitting with? Who are you working with, and you're in the community or of that ceremony, some folks that don't even do, you know, we can get beyond slightly beyond Ayahuasca people had just worked with, you know, psilocybin mushrooms. On a very personal ceremony by themselves, let's just say they shouldn't be having, you know, expecting people to come by the house, or expecting phone calls, or you know, kids around or even pets around things that are distracting, where your, your environment you're setting isn't conducive for you to be present in that moment, not distracted, you know, a lot of us make sure our houses are cleaned up, and well organized. Because when you're on the medicine, you're looking at your this mess going. And that's all you're thinking about. That's a distraction. Right? So make sure your house is in order, things like that. But in regards to the the ceremony, it's like I said, it's different for each ceremony, but you typically have somebody leading, they have some helpers, and they are guiding the process without getting too involved. Like they are facilitating, I guess you could say,

Keith McKeever 51:35

but they're not a counselor, they're just there to make sure that you're safe. And that your process if you need to, yeah,

Seth Conner 51:41

yeah, too often, some of them try to get too hands on and like really try to control or guide the, the ceremony, and it in, a lot of places want to look into and say just stop, you know, just sit back and let the person have their experience with the medicine and just be there as support in case they need somebody they need a handhold or they need to know that everything's okay. Be there for them. That's a really good ones just a hands off.

Keith McKeever 52:08

It'd be rather dangerous to have somebody digging too deep, I think,

Seth Conner 52:12

well, there should be no counseling going on. Like there's no, nothing, none of that talk therapy going on during the ceremony. It's all you're just doing. You're doing your own personal work inside and working with the medicine and going on a 20 year journey in six hours.

Keith McKeever 52:27

Yes, that's what I mean, if you had somebody that was trying to push her or do things like that, I can see that that that could get out of control really quick.

Seth Conner 52:35

Yeah, absolutely. And it happens. That's why it's important to vet who you're who you're working with, and who you're doing ceremonies with. There's some that are very structured, too much. So where there's ones that I've been a part of that are very structured, I liked them, because it's what I needed at that time. But I was with a friend who was also a veteran, that it was very distracting for him. He could not do the work that he wanted to personally do because he was so distracted by what was happening by the shaman or by the you know, what was just happening in the ceremony. And so to each his own, but you know, some people are really great with that structure. They appreciate it. Some are just like, hey, just play some music. And let me do my thing. So yeah, it's very individualized, for sure.

Keith McKeever 53:26

Awesome. Yeah, I think I really get a good picture of what it looks like. Because I think there's probably a lot of people that would just be like, I can't imagine what this really looks like this whole process. So yeah. Before going through all this, you mentioned earlier, I mentioned, you know, rituals, special diets. What kind of things have you seen that people, you know, kind of go through before and after the ceremony?

Seth Conner 53:50

So he talked about, like, preparation before the ceremony. Yeah, preparation

Keith McKeever 53:53

before you know, diet mindset, you know, what kind of what kind of things should people really look into doing? Before and after?

Seth Conner 54:01

Yeah, so beforehand, and I won't I won't get too granular with this. But there are certain things that definitely need to be cut out of the diet, at least a week beforehand, sometimes to just depending on the individual, but alcohol, caffeine.

Keith McKeever 54:20

Ooh, that's brutal. Oh, no caffeine. Yep. I like a couple cups coffee every

Seth Conner 54:25

day. Yeah, you probably won't like this regimen.

Keith McKeever 54:28

I don't think you would like me for a week before.

Seth Conner 54:31

grumpy, grumpy man a little bit. Yeah. At least for the first two or three days? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's even part of it, too, is detoxing from that stimulant. Really. So speaking of stimulants, you know, no other drugs, no cannabis shrooms, you know, you're really trying to just kind of clean eat detox, some of that stuff. No. real spicy foods or garlic and other spice in you know, trying to cut back on a lot of salt I don't know if they eliminate salt. But really to cut back on salt is hard because it raises your blood pressure and can interact with the medicine and so really kind of going on a cleanse for sure leading up to the experience. And then And that's more on the dietary side. Pork, you know, pork red meat, you can do little bits, you know, little pieces of fish and chicken and turkey, but you really want to cut out the the red meat and the the pork. So those are those are some things to consider. And then just more on the mindset side, you know, I just coached people in journaling. Try to think of what else you know, doing stuff that's going to benefit them. Mind Body Soul. So maybe some people like to do yoga, meditation, reading, even just reading something that's good, but like cutting out TV or media that is too intense, you know, definitely, I say, Hey, don't be watching gory, scary wartime movies, at least a few days before you go into ceremony because you carry that energy into ceremony. And speaking of that, sex, having sex, cutting out sex a few days, at least before going into ceremony that even brings an interesting energy into your experience. So but these are all practices that have been given to us by the the tribal nations of the Amazon.

Keith McKeever 56:26

Gotcha. So if you sign up for an event, they're going to kind of go through what their preferences I take it then you know, they should dietary things. But you kind of you kind of sent I think you said something here, like journaling or something for veterans with PTSD, and they're looking at it for the healing to that particular part. And then you kind of said something about, you know, no violent movies. So should you you know, journal about your thoughts and your feelings? Or should you kind of go down a path to kind of bring up some of those emotions, what you can, so that they're more top of your mind and easier to pull out during a ceremony? Yeah, so I mean, they eliminate that,

Seth Conner 57:06

you bring a great question. And this is something that I coach my clients in as well is that leading up to, you know, I work with with folks about six, four to six weeks leading up to their, their ceremony experience. And we go through a lot of the stuff that we talked about just on on educational side, because what I want them to go into their experience with is kind of the, the antithesis of what you mentioned, which is fear, right. And so I want them to go into the experience, they can be nervous, but I want them to go in feeling empowered, hopeful, excited, and not scared. But they're, they're feeling empowered, because they have a whole lot of information or education. And they they know what they're doing. They they're getting into it with an understanding that they're going to be okay, and they've prepared well. So that leads into the first four, six weeks is we are discussing intentions, we're bringing the reasons why we want to work with the medicine to the forefront. And journaling allows us to do that. So some people, they're just like, hey, come up with one intention for ceremony, come up with five, some of them go like 10 or 15 intentions, which is, I think, a major overkill. But like a lot of deep thinking right there, holy cow. Well, you know, there's some people that can fill that out pretty well, too. And maybe they do, maybe they have 15 intentions. That is great. That's an individual thing. Yeah, yeah. But here's the thing is that people are afraid if they have so many intentions, how do they recall them during the ceremony, and I go, you don't, you write them down, you, you meditate on them leading up to ceremony. And what you're doing is you're giving them by keeping them in your conscious, you're giving them energy. And they and you essentially are like, you know, you're giving them energy, and you're kind of holding them close to you. But then when you go into ceremony, you just let it all go, you forget about them. Like they're, you're not going to be able to recall them during ceremony, there's no point to once you come out of the experience, then you're going to notice that you're going to start receiving answers or understanding to those intentions or to those questions after coming out of the experience. But there's no way during the experience to, to try to process all that and you're not supposed to because what's gonna happen is if you try, you create anxiety, and then we go into that cycle of, you know, becoming fear, fear driven, and potentially having a challenging or bad trip. So that's why I work with them ahead of time. Figure out the intentions, write them down, know why we're going into the ceremony and what we want to come out the other side of it, knowing, experiencing, feeling, that sort of thing.

Keith McKeever 59:54

That's a good point. I mean, you shouldn't be doing anything. That's in a wrong way, you know, some people will take mushrooms or peyote, you know things like as a drug, when they can be used as a medicine, if channeled the right way, you just channel your energy, you know, it just kind of go about things the right way. So I told that makes sense, you know, gotta have the, everything's about mindset can go on for days about that. So, yeah, stay in it. So I think this is probably the next question is on everybody's mind. Because, you know, we're talking about something in the Amazonian rainforest, there's a lot of things grown in the rainforest that are illegal. What is, you know, how is this Ayahuasca ceremony and everything looked at down South America, and how is it looked at here in America, in terms of legality, and things that you should look out for things like that?

Seth Conner 1:00:57

Well, down in South America, there's, it's part of the culture, there's no, I mean, the idea that being illegal down there, probably, you know, would blow their mind. Now, not everybody down there practices it, it's still very much an indigenous tribal thing. Where you've got more of your, your nationals that are more Western minded, who use technology on a regular basis, and that sort of thing. might be familiar with it, but have never used it as well, it's still kind of reserved for the jungle, and for people more on the indigenous side. But here in the States, as well as other countries and parts of the world, it is classified in the controlled substance category as a schedule one, just like psilocybin, LSD, heroin, you know, and in some places, still cannabis. But obviously, there's a movement to change that. I actually just got off the phone with a gentleman today. And have been connecting with folks in both in Oakland, as well as those that have been instrumental in the movement of decriminalized nature. And they were voices in the decriminalization in Oakland, as well as Colorado, Denver, Ann Arbor, Washington, DC, parts of Oregon. And so talking to him, and I'm in North Carolina, um, I'm a part of the Bible Belt, where it's, it's like, Nope, we're still pretty conservative down here. Take that hippie, love and Bs and go somewhere else, you know, go to the city with it. Right, right. But what's interesting is that we've have a large veteran network down here. And I think that within that context, this Dini decriminalization, decriminalized nature initiative, can find a lot of traction in in the context of veteran healing and recovery. And so that's what I'm trying to do right now is work with with veterans locally, and be in a kind of move that that that legislation reform in the right direction, because yeah, it is definitely here. Still not. Okay, it's still illegal. It's not decriminalized. I WASC, a slightly different on a federal level. There's two, what would I call them? I don't want to call them organizations, but there's two Ayahuasca affiliates, I guess you could say that the federal government has pretty much said, it's okay to practice under the Religious Freedom Act, or whatever. And you can if you as long as you fall underneath one of these two churches, almost, you get to have exemption. One of those is the center diamond Church, which is out of Brazil, which I have worked with the other one I can't remember the name. Exactly. It escapes me. But all in all, I mean, there's so many different ceremonies happening across the country. Even if it's not decriminalized they don't they're just they're they're probably noticing that the dominoes are falling and there's really no point trying to prosecute, they're going to be able to find a way to exercise it underneath their religious freedom, which is the way it should be. I am absolutely absolutely advocate for that. So

Keith McKeever 1:04:25

yeah, yeah, it I think we've come a long ways on just because these were drugs. Really, in the last 1015 years, like Like look at cannabis on the state of Illinois. It's recreationally and medicinal available. Thank goodness it seems like every every election cycle comes up it seems like another domino falls in terms of another state that's the you know, legalizing it for medicinal or and or recreational. So it's like the dominoes are finally falling and people will realize some health benefits that and I think I personally think that there's a lot of benefits of cannabis. But that may not be the answer for everybody or maybe it's something that you choose to go through day to day symptoms. And then you can use that to kind of supplement you know, annually or semi annually going through an Ayahuasca ceremony, you know, kind of help get your mind right, because mental health issues like that are not just a snap your fingers and it's done, right, it's going to be with you until the day you die in one way, shape or form. And so you just got to live with it and adapt with it and figure out what ways you can live your best life. And so there's thankfully, some good movements on those those fronts. So it's kind of good to know that not like, you know, you're not gonna have the police knocking on your door and busting you know, not likely to

Seth Conner 1:05:54

Well, it's, it's interesting, I am glad you brought that up cannabis because as much as I'm for cannabis and just the right the the right to be able to use that plant. I'm a huge advocate for it. But interestingly enough, I don't work well with cannabis as a as a plant. It's just my, my makeup, I don't like the way that I work with it. I would prefer working with and micro dosing, psilocybin mushrooms, you know, occasionally doing an Ayahuasca ceremony or a San Pedro ceremony, or even working with micro dosing, even LSD, which people are like, Oh, my God, LSD acid, I would encourage folks that are that have kind of that response, that kind of Gag response to just do some basic, simple googling on what LSD is, it is just a synthesized version of ergot, which is a which is a barley or wheat fungus that grows on a barley or wheat and Albert Hoffman synthesized it back in, I believe, was the 30s. And yeah, in hopes of actually helping with the circulatory system, and he happened to just come in contact with it, and he had an experience. And quickly we move into, you know, the 40s and 50s, where they wanted to use it for psychiatric treatment. And then the very quick history is that, you know, the CIA gets ahold of it, and they start using it for mind control programs. And then it gets its he goes, makes its way into the hippies hands and, and Nixon's, like, hey, we can't have a whole bunch of, you know, you know, free loving kids running around not signing up for the military. So let's make that illegal. And, and that's where that's kind of, we're still reaping the the unfortunate legislation from that time, but we're in a renaissance, we are in a psychedelic Renaissance, things are changing. And so I couldn't be more happy about that.

Keith McKeever 1:07:52

Yeah, I think not to get like overly political, but you know, the war on drugs, in my opinion has failed. And it's time that we reframe things and stop criminalizing people for taking things that if taken appropriately, into the right setting, with the right mindset can be helpful for people now, people are always going to abuse things. But aside, we come full circle and stop spending money on stopping all this stuff down. Don't me wrong, like, can't imagine any, any place for heroin. The heroin epidemic in this country is just, it's out of control. What was it, you know, just 567 years ago, something like that. Nobody ever really knew anything about Narcan. And now, cops have it teachers and firefighters have it. I mean, everybody's got an arcane on him. My wife is an aesthetician, and she had an opportunity to get some just in case you had a client, you know, that. It's like, that's, that's crazy. Now that's so that's something that we need to work on. But you have to work on the reason that somebody's taking it, why is there an addiction? Why are they doing it to fix the problems? Well, to get to the solution, like, you know, stop, I mean, you got to stop it from coming into country, but if somebody has a trauma, you need to address the trauma with mental health providers. So you can address that to help them get off of the drug that they're on. Instead of it's just a mess. The whole heroin epidemic is just a mess.

Seth Conner 1:09:22

Well, a lot of lives. I you know, I I don't want to get to I mean, this could be another another podcast, but I'm older. You know, I've recently changed my because I used to completely agree with you. I've recently changed my, my thoughts or beliefs on that subject. Um, if you look at Portugal, their drug reform is incredible. What they've done to and I won't get into it too much, but if you go Google it, it's it's, you know, all that information is there. It is a stark contrast to what the states have tried to do for decades, which hasn't helped at all. But the drug, there's like zero drug problems in Portugal. But people use it all the time. But there's no there's no deaths crime rate has gone down. People are living happy, healthy lives and being a productive part of society and still using but the reason is the problem actually is a lack of education, a lack of testing the drugs for quality. See, we have we see these images of crack addicts and heroin overdoses. And that is the ugly face of because heroin is a synthesized plant medicine, it is the ugly face of, of heroin, or opiates. It's like, it's like with guns. I mean, a lot of veterans will get with this, um, our guns bad, or the people that are handling them. Bad, right. And so drugs, in their pure and simple form are not bad. But the problem is, nobody has any understanding of how to use them, they get a, they get a drug that is cut with something else. It's it wreaks havoc on their system. They don't know how to use it. And so they overdose all the time, they take way too much. They're they're using it the wrong way. They're using it to avoid their problems and escape their issues as opposed to using it for its proper use. And if they did do that, it wouldn't be an issue, just like Portugal is finding it's not an issue. But our drug reform here in the country is asinine. It is completely asked backwards. And I just don't understand why they won't look at these other places. They have a proof of concept and adopt that model. And I think it's highly political, but we won't get into that too much.

Keith McKeever 1:11:44

Yeah, I think that's a good point. I don't know if that you quite convinced me. But you do have some good points like cutting it with fentanyl. And we know that's deadly. And I think that's leading to a lot of the deaths too. Absolutely.

Seth Conner 1:11:56

So even ecstasy, ecstasy is MDMA cut with something else.

Keith McKeever 1:12:02

Yeah, if you had the right environment, the right mindset, and you were doing it in healing way instead of avoiding, which I think a lot of people do. I mean, it's, you know, in so many different ways people get addicted to heroin and opiates, all that stuff. So it's

Seth Conner 1:12:17

bad. Yeah, it's

Keith McKeever 1:12:18

absolutely definitely bad. So if you know if anybody happens to be listening, and they do have an addiction problem, get get some help reach out to the VA. Not only medically get yourself some help get yourself some help, psychologically, with with the counselor stuff, like there's answers, worked through those traumas and find a way to to handle the problem at the root cause like so as I was put things in housing analogies as a realtor, like if you have water in your basement, it's because you either have a hole in your foundation or you downspouts aren't out far enough your gutters are clogged like or that you don't have grading around the house, there is a handful of issues that have caused that problem and you have not addressed one of those issues. But if you do go address them, you can work towards potentially rectifying situation, you can get yourself on the right path. So yeah,

Seth Conner 1:13:09

I don't I don't like to plug other podcasts. But I assume that you wouldn't my

Keith McKeever 1:13:14

No, I'm all about resources, resources of value. So

Seth Conner 1:13:18

Well, I wouldn't mind me plugging Joe Rogan. But But Joe Rogan, he has a gentleman by the name of Dr. Carl Hart. And this This guy has been working, he's Dr. Ghosh, chemical engineer, maybe. And he works with pure cocaine, on occasional on, you know, on certain occasions and pure like heroin in a way that is very responsible. And he he has this, they have this session where they just talk about what it looks like to work with those synthesized plant medicines the right way. And it's just it opened up my mind to not be so judgmental. Like, absolutely, I was absolutely thought the same way I come from a background of law enforcement parents. So I grew up being the dare poster child, you know, like, I would win the poster, the best poster award in the metal. And, you know, that's just that was my background, but it came with a lot of programming and a lot of judgments. And when I started to, like, break down those judgments, and and I'm saying this for the the audience, because there's still people that either are on the fence or just are like now I don't think so. But I would just say, if you can begin to approach it with an open mind, and educate yourself. That's when the the ignorance starts to fall off. Right doesn't mean you it's for you doesn't mean you're going to go out and use Iosco or any of these other things, but it allows you to have an intelligent conversation with somebody as opposed to just a mass. That's bad because the law says it's bad. That's not a legal issue. It's a moral issue.

Keith McKeever 1:14:54

So I try and open the show like I did and make the point that this is obviously not for everybody, right? You may not have the time or the resources you may just be scared like you talk about mushrooms and in a makeup and things that have made fungus. I don't eat mushrooms. So, you know, eating a mushroom for healing purpose is just like a no go for me like it's just makes me cringe

Seth Conner 1:15:20

a lot that we got to get you some chocolate, they put it in chocolate, you might really like that. Yeah, you know, if I know it's

Keith McKeever 1:15:26

in there, it's still not going to help much. Yeah. My wife loves eating mushrooms, and she'll try and put them in things. I'm like, I know what's in there. Like, Oh, that's funny. I don't just eat it. It's good for you. And I'm like, I don't care. Like I just, ah, I'll take the broccoli and cauliflower and green beans and stuff. You know, give me a good veggies. I don't need to fungus. But it's funny. I know, I'm not the only person out there that won't. Mushrooms, you know, just can't get past the whole fungus thing. I got friends that go mushroom hunting every year. And they're like, oh, that poisonous and that one's not. And I'm like, How do you know? They all look the freakin same to me. I wouldn't know like, it's crazy. I would eat awareness. I don't care. I wouldn't eat date, I wouldn't eat it. But anyway. So one kind of final question here for you how or where can somebody go while finding a location for this? You know where I mean? It doesn't sound like there's probably a whole lot of advertisements that are say, hey, you know, come on, come try this over here.

Seth Conner 1:16:33

Yep, you can actually, there's a lot more websites popping up to advertise different ceremonies or retreats at least around the world, you probably won't find a whole lot advertising nationally here in the States just because they want to keep the exposure down. But you can connect with me, I have access to a a wide network across the country, if you want to do something more local to who you are or where you're at. I can connect you with folks that are in your local area doing ceremony, or retreats. There's also a website up called n theo connect. So e n t h e o connect.com. They, if they don't have it up, now, they will have it shortly have vetted ceremonial retreats. But again, you can connect with me. And if it's something that you are interested in doing, reach out to me and we can have a discovery call and talk about that because you don't want to go into it lightly. You want to actually, you know, realize if it is something that you're supposed to do or not. And then if you are which medicine you want to work with, and which ceremony you should, you know, sit with. And that's all stuff that we go over in the first meeting when I have with new clients. So

Keith McKeever 1:17:52

it should be painfully obvious after listening to this episode. But you should be totally prepared. And yes, mindset right, what set and setting yo,

Seth Conner 1:18:01

hey, nice attention, man I

Keith McKeever 1:18:04

look at that's pretty good for a guy who went to public school. Very tiny public school. I won't name where. But, yeah. So I got your website right down there at the bottom executive antigen.com. I will have that on the YouTube thing as well. So description, total last words right there public school again. But I got I got three other questions here for you before I let you go. And you probably know what these are. Ask everybody these three questions. And it's always entertaining. See what everybody's questions are. So what is your advice for somebody who's looking to transition out of the military today?

Seth Conner 1:18:48

All right, first question. My advice would be to connect with I, someone who is very well versed in veterans benefits. Because even even to this day, like I'm working with a guy that is going to be able to take my percentage of disability higher than it currently is, and get more benefits more bonuses, whatever. So make sure you educate yourself first thing you do educate yourself on what you deserve for your service. Once you get out. That would probably be my top thing to recommend to anybody looking to get out.

Keith McKeever 1:19:28

Great point. Keyword deserve what you deserve. You earned it, man. You earned it. Blood, Sweat and Tears. Right. Okay, so second question. And this one is aimed to the younger audience that would be considering joining the military. What kind of advice would you have for somebody who's who's thinking about it? Yeah, I guess I have to be younger. I mean, I guess you can join up into your 30s. But, you know, we don't there's not a lot of people doing that.

Seth Conner 1:19:54

Yeah. I know people are going to it. Some might be upset with with my response to that. And that is don't do it. Now the reason I say that

Keith McKeever 1:20:07

one yet, that's a good guy. All right.

Seth Conner 1:20:10

I know I work with guys that have. We're very passionate about creating more veterans with PTSD, you know, about not creating veterans with PTSD. And it starts with not sending our men and women, our boys and girls over to fight wars that we shouldn't be fighting, that we have no business fighting. You know, you we can all say that since I went to war, and it was not about necessarily the cause was about my person, you know, my comrade to the left, and to the right of me, it was about our, our friends or our fellow soldiers. But the reason we went over there, I can't think of a war that we've been a part of, you know, in the last 70 years that maybe we should have been a part of, like, we should have stayed out of nearly all of them. And we've created a few generations of soldiers that should not have been fighting. Now I say that. Because I am passionate about that. And I've actually I had a stepson that really wanted to go in. And I just told him and I was really honest with them, I said, find something else to do and, or if you go in, go in and do something that's not going to put you in a combat situation, go serve somewhere else, you know, be a be a supporting role for your brothers and sisters, and reap the benefits of, you know, the bonuses and the benefits coming out. You know, if you really want to go in there and have structure and discipline and do that whole thing. Great. I think that's awesome. I needed it. I needed four years of somebody else to take care of me after high school, you know, and so that's why I joined, but as part of the reason, but not pick something that's going to take you into combat. There's other ways to figure out what kind of man or woman you are than subjecting yourself to trauma.

Keith McKeever 1:22:08

I think it's actually pretty good advice, because I think everybody that let's just, you know, pick on the 2018 17 to 25 year olds, you know, that might be thinking about this, you should think long and hard about it. Take it from a couple of guys who spent time in Iraq, like it is not for everybody, and the landscape is different today. It definitely is the operations tempo is just drastically different than it is today. I've thought about that a lot lately, like those people who've joined in the last couple of years, may have never deployed when when I was in I was Air Force. As Air Force Security Forces members, when I before I even got to my first duty station, I knew I was tasked for the deployment to camp Buka. And at that point in time, almost everybody in my career field was gone six months, home, six months gone again. And the regular air force at that time, not a plug necessarily for the Air Force. But the Air Force at that time, regular career fields, you know, you think medicals support jobs, they would make maybe deploy three months, every couple of years, three months, four months, something like that. We were doing six months, my first deployment got extended to almost eight months. My second one was six months. But when I was there, and oh seven, the army had gone from 12 to 15 to 18 month deployments. You know, by comparison people, the Vietnam veterans, many of them did a one year tour. And, and that was stressful enough. And you got to think about the combat operations that we went through. were different than World War Two, kind of going off on a tangent here. But I think it's important to say like, in World War Two, there was more clearly defined front lines, you can be on the frontlines for a couple of weeks and be pulled to the rear and kind of let your guard down in the war on terror war in Vietnam. Pretty much regardless where you're at in country you're surrounded by a potential danger 24/7 The threat of indirect fire direct fire IEDs all these different things is there every single day you don't let your guard down for that entire six months, nine months 18 months whatever that plays a hell of a toll on your mental well being Yep, it's it does. Even if you're where we what we all did was different. Whether you're on the frontlines kicking into doors, your garden prisoners or you're just gardening airplane on an airbase, there is still that threat of danger. 24/7 And luckily we all we all went we protected the men and women left to our left and right and we all came home in one shape or form. Well, you're not come home, but you know what I mean? Like we're back here Now, and the war is hopefully winding down, and we can move on to it to hopefully a more peaceful period.

Seth Conner 1:25:07

Yeah, I know, I should have said this earlier. That because you'd mentioned, you know, it takes a toll on our, our brains on our mental capacity to process and see life and, and respond to it. I don't know if you've ever read the book, it's called the Body Keeps the Score. And it's all about trauma being held in a molecular level in your body. And I don't know if you're familiar with either Joe Dispenza, he does a lot of talk on the science of it. But when we feel an emotion, fear, or love, or whatever it might be, chemical hormones are released from our brain. And there's actually receptors in our body that receive that chemical, that hormone. And what it's doing is it's communicating information. Right. And it is it is working synergistically. But what's happening is that trauma is also being held in our body, in different organs, in different models, different cells and stuff like that. So it's not just a mental thing that we were injured. And the way that we think or process like, no, it scientifically is held in our body that trauma. And it requires much more than talk therapy only, or psychiatric pills to get that out. Like, it just doesn't. That's why when people like when the VA hands out pills and say, you know, here's some SSRIs and help you deal with your anxiety and depression, I want to smack them in the head because they're not solving anything. They're actually creating greater issues. That leads to potential suicide in the future. And so it's just as backwards, but I wanted to make sure to say something about trauma in that

Keith McKeever 1:26:48

room. Yeah, no, I That totally makes sense. You know, how whatever's going on your mind just kind of transfers throughout your body, like it makes perfect sense. And you got to get point about the VA. You know, when I first called for a counseling appointment, that's, I think I told you this. Yeah. Last week, when we talk, like the first question out of their mouth is do you want pills? Or do you actually want to talk to somebody, and I had never really had a terrible experience with the VA. But I was just shocked that came out of that person's mouth. And I'm like, shouldn't the first step be talking to somebody and assess what the issues are? And then let them as the doctor or medical professional, determine whether medicine may or may not be the thing for you? Like, that just seems, you know, a logical step. But maybe that's just me. I don't know. So last question here, before we wrap this up, give it give me an opportunity to give a shout out to any kind of veterans organizations or clubs, you know, whether it's clubhouse, Facebook, whatever, whatever, you know, you'd like to give a shout out to that veteran based.

Seth Conner 1:27:55

Yeah, you know, I've recently connected with a great guy who had a very awful, awful time with the VA. They just treated him poorly in San Diego. And from that, but from that experience, he'll tell you that it led into this organization now called veterans walk and talk. And I just when I met him, I connected with him and heard about what he's doing. It was beautiful and perfect. And he's out of San Diego. And he's setting up a few chapters across the country. But essentially, what it is, is veterans getting together in nature to go for a hike, go for a walk, micro dosing, either cannabis or psilocybin mushrooms, getting just a micro dose and walking out into nature and talking with each other. It is veterans helping veterans. So if you look up veterans walk and talk, I've been connecting with him on bringing that same organization, or at least having a chapter here in North Carolina, which I'm really excited about. But that is one to connect with. For sure. He's got some great information on his website.

Keith McKeever 1:28:59

That sounds very interesting. That was a new one for me. So yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty cool. I mean, anytime we can get together and have that sense of community. Regardless what that looks like, is beneficial because that's something that I think you know, it disappears as soon as transition happens. As soon as you drop a you know, Sergeant or Lance Corporal or, or lieutenant colonel from your title, you become Mr. or Mrs. And now that whole community is gone, and they turn your back on you why because, you know, somebody else fills your spot. And the mission has to go on and that's what you know, in the military you're focused on was the mission and but now you're on your own you got to find your own mission. So that was that was awesome. That was a good one. Yeah, it was fun. You got some good stuff for for people to look up now. And I got books to read out thanks to you. Your app, let me know. Yeah. Got some more good ones, man. Yeah, absolutely. You know, any anything you come up with I you know, send it my way. If it's something you know, they'd be good guest you know, and I'll put this out. Anybody if somebody you think would be a good guest on the show, send me an email, battle buddy podcast@gmail.com and let me know or go to the website battle buddy podcast dotnet. And you can, you know, there's there's buttons on there to send me a message of like, hey, who should I reach out to where have them reached out to me, whatever, whatever the case may be. Because I am looking into, you know, April, May, June at this point. And so you know, more people to connect with, especially nonprofits that are doing amazing things like that love to highlight so that books you name, it got a ton of resources on my website, I'll give them a plug there. I'm always trying to add things. So if there is any listeners that go to it, and they think something should be added, drop me an email, let me know what resource you think should be added to the page. Because at the end of the day, it's just all about providing resources free value, a place just another place where you can find those different things. So with that being said, I'm gonna go ahead and drop you in the back room here and I got a little little video that i They announced. I will say, thanks for tuning in, or being here with me, Seth, and kind of shed some light on on a potential healing opportunity for some people.

Seth Conner 1:31:08

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Man. This was a lot of fun.

Keith McKeever 1:31:11

I left off with you absolutely. Anytime.

Alright, that's it for today's episode. Thanks, folks, for tuning in. And take a listen to what we got what we had in store for you today. Appreciate you tuning in. Real quick, before we leave, don't forget to go check out battle buddy podcast.net. That's our website, trying to constantly provide as much content and valuable stuff there as possible for financial things to VA to just other resources that I can provide. So go there, check it out. If you have any ideas reach out to us for other things we can add to the to the website. And don't forget to like and subscribe on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, you know, go follow us on all those platforms so we can help get the message out, is you know, the goal here this podcast is to help people, whether that's to you know, help people get a needle out of their arms to get themselves clean and back onto productive path. Or, or take the gun out of somebody's mouth, you know, help them deal with those demons and go on to live a better life or get somebody on a path to financial freedom or just bettering their life and as a whole right the goal is to help our fellow vets and that's something we should all be striving for. So help me get the message out be might be my battle buddies and go do that for me. Last thing I've got here is is for those who might be at their at the end of their their rope. And it feel like there may not be another option other than to become a statistic today. And all I gotta say to you is don't I want to be your battle buddy. You got tons of other battle buddies out there. You know we love and appreciate you. We do not want to lose another brother sister today. So down at the bottom of the screen if you're watching, I've got the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. That number is 1-800-273-8255 So make that phone call or contact a VA contact capacitor. I don't care. Whoever that person or entity needs to be for you. Make that phone call. So you can be here with us tomorrow.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai