Join us in this compelling episode as we delve into the captivating life story of Tanya Jones, CEO and Founder of Interactive Advocacy and an Army veteran. Discover how Tanya's personal experiences with past trauma led her to embrace acting and drama as powerful tools to help others heal. We explore the essence of interactive advocacy and its profound impact on overcoming tough issues like suicide, mental health, and MST. Gain insights into the transformative power of facilitation and the creation of safe spaces for engaging in tough conversations. Prepare to be inspired as we explore how Interactive Advocacy skillfully showcases the harm and compassionately demonstrates how to care for one another.

In This Episode We Cover:

• What is interactive advocacy?

• How IA helps people overcome and deal with tough issues.

• How to cover suicide, mental health, MST

• The power of facilitation

• Tough conversations, in safe spaces

• How they show the harm, then show how to care!

Battle Buddy Podcast Guest Links:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWwa830xd3vJTGUSVLC-gaw

https://www.interactiveadvocacy.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanyajonesia/

https://www.instagram.com/interactiveadvocacy/

https://www.facebook.com/InteractiveAdvocacy

Transcript from Episode 103 with Tanya Jones:

Keith McKeever 0:01

Welcome back to another episode of the battle buddy podcast, you're definitely gonna want to pay attention today, because we're gonna have a fascinating conversation with a woman who has taken the idea of theater and plays in very tough conversations about mental health and military, sexual trauma, and social justice and those kinds of things that are difficult conversations, but necessary conversations to have, and taking great actors and putting them into plays and interactive advocacy. And using that as a platform to have difficult conversations. And using that as a catalyst for change. And some other steps involved in it. I don't want to spoil it all. But it's a very fascinating thing I know when she broke it down for me.

Keith McKeever 0:45

Last week, when we initially talked about it, I was like, wow, this is really fascinating. I love this, this is a great way to get people involved in the process, and talk about these kinds of things, because these kinds of things need to be talked about. So very excited to talk about this and how she does this. And this is a great resource for anybody who has something like this that may need some sort of resource in their community, or for Veterans Outreach thing or whatever. This is a great, great way to go about doing so. With. Without further ado, let's dive into

Keith McKeever 1:15

Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. So welcome Tanya. I'm so excited to have you on here.

Tanya Jones 1:24

Yes, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Keith McKeever 1:28

Yes, like I said in the intro, I I really, when you start peeling back those layers of the onion, I was like, Man, this is really, really cool. But anyway, but we'll get to that here in a minute. Share with us a little bit of your, of your of your background, your your military story and all that stuff.

Tanya Jones 1:44

Yes, absolutely. So my name is Tanya Jones, I'm the CEO and founder of interactive advocacy. I'm also a disabled veteran. And and I actually also used to work for the Department of Defense as well. So in terms of my veteran status status, both as an active duty member a reservists as well as a Milltek. Two, so that was really interesting. Um, but um, it's over 20 years, I've worked with the military inside and out with the federal government, doing a lot of work with, as an inspector general, do an EO e Oh, sexual assault prevention. So that's pretty much what my background has been. And also what I think kind of assisted guide me in this direction. You know, when you, when you're on a journey, you don't realize how much of a journey you are on until you start, you know, until you get there. So I think that that's kind of what it's been for me. But the work that I've been doing has been pretty much over the last 25 years.

Keith McKeever 2:50

Yeah, and it's a lot of this is been something I'm assuming has been very, very much an interest a passion of yours, probably since you were a little, you know, the the acting and the theatrical side of things. Yes, you're

Tanya Jones 3:05

absolutely. So I am by nature. By design, I was tell people that I am a creative and long before I realized that I was a creative. And being a creative allowed me to utilize a voice that I never really knew I had. Unfortunately, for me, I have experienced childhood trauma. And me going into the military was actually a way for me to escape. I don't know if you've heard you know, people say that they're, you know, running towards something or running away from something for me, I was just kind of running away from all of the trauma that I've experienced, and went into the military as a place to escape. But not only was I able to escape there, I was able to really just kind of grow and use my voice in ways that I never even could have imagined. And as a result of my trauma, it led me to be a very isolated individual. But in the moments of that isolation, it allowed, it allowed me to create, I've been a writer for years, a journaler, I would always write short stories, poems, that kind of thing, something that I was always very interested in. And as a young person, I didn't have access to therapy. So writing ultimately became my therapy, excuse me, I could get lost and transcend in my imaginary world. And ultimately, that led me to be a very creative, free thinking person when it came time to do in my training. So everything from equal opportunity, equal employment opportunity on the civilian side. Sexual Assault Prevention, anytime I would do training, I recognized that in order for me to be able to connect with my audiences, it needed to be very impactful, but it also needed to be relatable. And a lot of times when you just throw a PowerPoint presentation up on the board, you know, people didn't they didn't get it, you know, there was a level of disconnect because they couldn't tie themselves to the storyline. So

Keith McKeever 5:05

PowerPoint that we're definitely famous for in the military, though.

Tanya Jones 5:09

Yeah. What do you call it the dance with the headlines.

Keith McKeever 5:14

And sure they're doing this in the military these days, oh,

Tanya Jones 5:17

it's worse. Yeah, they're on their phones. But but people would not engage with those stories. So I needed that I needed that connection. Because if someone came to my office and told me that this is one of the things that they were concerned with, and it was happening in our organization, I needed to show you what this looked like. And if it affected one person, it could affect the money. And so I always started to incorporate that type of training. The impact will more interactive training and my training sessions, and that began the writing on the wall for what will ultimately be interactive advocacy. So I didn't realize that I was doing that over the last, you know, 15 years or so, until I kind of put it all together. And I was like, wow, I really think I'm onto something here. And as I shared with you, I was also a victim of childhood trauma, but also an adult trauma. So our first presentation of the first play that I ever wrote was no words or no words, performance is my own personal story with sexual trauma. And, and what I love about being able to write that piece was it was a another level of freedom, that it allowed me on my resiliency journey. And I could change the storyline, I could give it a different ending. And it was empowering for me. And, you know, initially, it was just something that I could do to help myself. And then I realized that by being able to tell, you know, all of these amazing stories, it would help so many people. And that's one of the things that we do here at interactive advocacy, we provide unparalleled storytelling through lived experiences, as well as scripted, and I tell people all the time, if you come to one of our shows, we're gonna make you laugh, we're probably going to make you cry. But we're always going to do it in a safe space learning environment. And that's ultimately what it is. And my goal, every time I work with organizations, is that we get individuals, we give individuals the ability to act, and we call that actively create transformation. Our goal is to be able to, you know, create cultural change and shifts, when we see these types of toxic behaviors impact our community.

Keith McKeever 7:37

That's awesome. You know, if you just get them, if you just get the needle to move just a little bit, just just one person, and two, and three, and four.

Keith McKeever 7:47

That's how that's how change happens. You know, it doesn't massive change doesn't happen overnight, just one person, two people, three people. But if it is five people, then 10 People that 20 People even better, but

Keith McKeever 8:00

I absolutely love the idea of that i i would love to go to one of your sessions I I love pushing the envelope and pushing the boundaries and making people uncomfortable, rather than sitting there by that death by PowerPoint, but so you definitely came up with something that's been a passion and a creative side of what you were and turned it into a business. And I definitely wanna hit on that for a second. Yes, you know, it's a business. But it's a passion. And it's definitely a couple of things there. One, you're in the Charlotte, North Carolina Veterans Business Association. Yeah. So how has that been impactful? You know, what is that? What does that look like? And how has it been impactful for your business?

Tanya Jones 8:44

Well, that that is that has been a very new opportunity that just presented itself. I was actually just recently elected to be the, the chair for the Charlotte region for the North Carolina business, Veterans Business Administration assist Association. And I'm really honored about that. Because, you know, us as veterans, sometimes we don't have access to all of the information that we need. And it's really great when we can kind of get together and kind of talk about, you know, what are you doing and what's been working for you, and how can I help? You know, it's that camaraderie and, you know, a band of brothers and sisters in the armed forces and, and even after we, you know, retire or we ETS, we we still are more inclined to kind of gravitate towards each other. You know, and you know, it's good, healthy rivalry when we talk about army versus Navy, Navy versus Air Force, you know, it's great stuff. But one of the things I love most about this organization is the ability to do some great team working and collaborations and just really just share, you know, what's going on in your specific area. your town, your city? What do you have access to? What do you need? And and then from there, we're able to reach out to our local politicians to say, Hey, listen, this is what we need for this area. If you are sharing that you're supporting veterans, how could you support us in this way. So I really do enjoy having the opportunity to now be have this platform. So I can do more to assist veteran entrepreneurs, their families, their spouses, and just kind of work together to see how we can continue to build as entrepreneurs, once we leave left the military,

Keith McKeever 10:38

I bet you've had a lot of success to reaching out to those politicians, because the more of a collective voice that you have, the better. You know, if you come to him with one or two people, yeah, they may may or may or may not listen to you, right? Depends if you have a personal connection, and they want to take the meeting. But if you show up with 10 people at the door and 20 people at the door, to say, hey, we have an issue, really is your constituents want to talk to you? Absolutely. It's a little harder for them to say no.

Tanya Jones 11:06

Absolutely. And, and the organization itself has been in existence for over 20 years. So it's not a new organization. They just for whatever reason, they just didn't have a very strong presence in Charlotte and Concord. And they do have, they're very active in North Carolina, but they needed some more visibility there. So and, you know, just recently, the CEO and founder of the organization had an opportunity to go and sit and sit down and talk with the governor. And that's the level of access that we have to our politicians in our state. And we really do appreciate that. Because the CEO of the organization really took his time to kind of sit down with us and come up with, you know, the questions that we would want to present collectively. So that was great. So, you know, if you're, if you're in the North Carolina area, you definitely want to check us out, and hopefully we can collaborate on some projects together.

Keith McKeever 11:59

Absolutely. What do you got to lose? You know, collaborate and strengthen numbers, you know, absolutely. You serve should totally understand that. But I'd have definitely don't want to ask another question just kind of popped in my mind. Because, you know, it's business related, and for your business. Because, you know, my, my father, he's been, he's been gone for many years. But he was, he was a coal miner. He was also in real estate for his part time for a little while, until the coal mine shut down. But he was a coal miner for 25 years. And he absolutely hated that job. And I remember, as a little kid, he used to tell me all the time, do what you love, so that every day you wake up, and you are excited to go to work, just do not get stuck in a job that you hate. You know, whether it's a job or a business, no matter what, you've obviously started a business that you love, right passion to get up and do every day. So to anybody else out there, who's who's got this idea or this nugget of a business, that they would have a passion for. Any advice for them? For following that path?

Tanya Jones 13:05

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you said it follow your passion. I mean, you know, for me, it really was about doing something that I absolutely loved. I love my job, I love being able to create, I love writing short stories, I love writing plays. And, and it's also very therapeutic, you know, I mean, as a person that has experienced so much trauma, I need it to be able to release it. And so being able to build an organization that not only helped me, but helped so many other individuals that are in our organization, our organization is comprised of veterans, advocates, clinicians, but also thriving survivors. So it gives them a platform as well to be able to share their voice and you know, kind of turn their pain into something holistic, and healthy. And that can help so many people. So I would absolutely say follow your passion. You know, if it's something that you're dreaming about, just kind of keep moving forward. And if it's a bit scary, it's okay. That means that your dream is not big enough, right? So just keep dreaming, keep pushing forward. It's gonna be a little, you know, nervous at first. But if you love it, it's easy to do it every single day, every single day, even when it's difficult. You know, you just remember, why am I doing this again? Oh, yes. Because of that one person that I was able to help have that one smile that I was able to put on someone's face. And that's a constant reminder as to why I do what I do. And no matter what, what you know what's happening, I keep moving forward. I keep pushing forward.

Keith McKeever 14:53

I think for some people, they kind of get this idea and they're like, but like I got this passion for it, but I How do I turn that into a business? How do I do this? How do I make money at this obviously, because you know, it's got to have a business that makes money or you have a hobby.

Keith McKeever 15:10

You know, there's, there's something to that. And you know, it's a valid point, you know, sometimes you just got to take a leap of faith, you just got to do it. And if it's up, it's, if it's that much of a passion, if it's that important to you, then just do it and figure it out.

Tanya Jones 15:24

You know, I'll tell you something. When I started this, you know, I had already been training, I've already been doing, you know, bold and impactful training, that was something that I've been doing for 25 years, you know, um, but what made it real for me is when I was sharing this with another person saying, you know, what, I'm thinking about doing this full time, you know, and only focusing on this type of engagement. And when I was sharing with this one individual, they said to me, Well, I've been waiting for you, to tell me that you were going to start something like this, what took you so long, and when you are ready to go, when you're ready to go call me, I'm going to be your first client. And, and I was like, Really, and they and just just off of the notion of the idea, you know, and for me, that situation was very encouraging, because you could potentially have met someone that said, you know, I think that that's a horrible idea. But I was able to present it to a person packaged it put it together. And and when I went back to them to say, Okay, I'm ready, will you buy one of our services, they said, Absolutely. And then from there, it opened up so many other doors, that's when I realized that I was really just onto something, it's just that first door being able to be open. And it doesn't matter how big or how small it is, you know, if you are a baker, and you love to make cupcakes, it turns into a business when you sell that very first cupcake. So just try to sell the very first cupcake, you know, I mean, it's it, it seems like, oh, no, it's, you say like, it's so easy, but it really is that easy. It's just putting one foot in front of the other, and then associating a price tag to it. And and just don't, you know, minimize your your value or your worth, because you're definitely worth it. And I would just say just one step in front of the other. And once you associate that dollar sign to it, it's like you said, it turns into a business.

Keith McKeever 17:28

Absolutely. So speaking of yours, I think people probably have a pretty good idea here. But what exactly are the elements of your business and the different things that you're doing?

Tanya Jones 17:39

Yes. So and that's great question. So thank you so much for asking that. So as I shared with you, we are a violence prevention training organization that use unparallel storytelling, and through scripted and lived experience. And what that basically means is that we put on full productions like a play on social injustice topics, so everything from sexual assault, sexual harassment, suicide prevention, domestic violence, human trafficking, just to name a few are some of the topics uncomfortable topics that we poke fun at, and that we poke fun at ourselves. But the biggest thing is that through our presentations, we get people talking, you know, talking about these things that are uncomfortable for us and becoming more comfortable with them, in an effort to get people to say, You know what, I'm not going to allow this to happen on my watch. So we have our Theatrical presentations. We also do video presentations, such as PSAs, short films, documentaries, we have the ability to do full productions. So you'll see, you know, if you check out our YouTube page, you'll see some of the videos that we created on consent, on bystander intervention, sexual harassment, human trafficking. So those are just a handful of our services that we offer. And then we also sell some training tools as well. Because we recognize the importance of being able to, you know, tap into every single audience, you know, some audiences or some organizations may not have the funds or the means, or even the manpower, to be able to have interactive advocacy come in and do a full performance for them. So they can actually go on our website and buy some of our training tools, which offers continuing education, which comes with workbooks and facilitator guides, and they're there to assist the trainer to do some, some really awesome and impactful training tools. And then finally, we also have what we like to call our awareness vibes, which is our merch that you know, speaks it's like our, our nonverbal apparel that you know, speaks to those individuals that really just want to stand up and speak out when it comes to social injustice is

Keith McKeever 19:54

awesome. So, very curious, especially, you know, in the veteran space here I think it's really important to say to anybody who watches or listens to this, obviously not everybody is going to necessarily be in a position where they're needing to hire your services or anything like that. But if they see something come up and an event, I highly encourage somebody to go and attend an event. Challenge your mindset on things that you don't know that much about, especially social justice issues, race issues, military, sexual trauma, or whatever it is. Whether you agree with that or not go open your mind and challenge your thought. Like, absolutely, everybody should do it. If you see something on a calendar, anywhere, Facebook, wherever, wherever you see it, you see it, get a ticket, go challenge your mind. Like that's, that's really important. But very curious how, how have you addressed for the military community? Things like suicide, mental health, and military sexual trauma?

Tanya Jones 21:02

Thank you for asking that. As a matter of fact, the organization I'm here at a conference this week, and and I would say maybe about 30% 40% of the population is as our military advocates, mental health, suicide, sexual assault, this is a trauma in abuse, trauma type events. And, and, you know, one of the things that I really tried to do is work with military organizations that have come forward and said, Hey, listen, this is what some of the concerns is, we sit down with them, we work with their advocates, we come up with an assessment, maybe they've done an assessment of their organization already. And they know what some of the hurdles are, what some of the complaints or concerns are. And what we do is we built training around what their concerns are. So for example, if they tell us, hey, you know, in our organization, one of the things that we're concerned with is male victimization, we're seeing males, more males coming forward. But they don't want to necessarily file a complaint that because they don't want anyone to know because of the stigma. So they'll say, could you do training for us that focuses more on male victimization, that shows males being sexually harassed versus, you know, females being sexually harassed. So we'll sit down, and we'll work with them. And then we'll draft a concept with some objectives. And then we'll represent that to the organization. And then once they say, yes, that, you know, that is the target, that's what we're what we would really like to talk about, we take that information, we come back to our offices, and then we sit down with our writing team, and then we actually create the production that is going to go alongside that, that facilitators. And then we also have curriculum, developers that are, you know, assist us with creating the curriculum, and then our advocates or our clinicians will actually go out and conduct the training alongside with our, excuse me, alongside our actors, or our entertainers, and we'll put on that that presentation for you. And everything involves audience and audience participation and engagement. So we pull them into our show, you know, we give them the opportunity to experience the harm by putting them in the hot seat, so to speak, and and everything that we do, we, you know, we involve responsible active bystander intervention and everything from a continuum of harm to a continuum of care. And once we have allowed you to experience the harm, we can assist you with creating the care. And that is what we have found that works very well as far as our framework, so continuum of harm continuum of care, and just really holding each other accountable.

Keith McKeever 23:51

Accountability is huge. Absolutely. Man, you know, we we all need an accountability partner, we all should be accountable to ourselves and our, our actions and all that. So I'm kind of curious after some of these when you've done them, I know you've done some for the government and for the military. Obviously, you're not looking for names or maybe sort of stories, but I'm sure you've had people come up to yourself or some of your entertainers and, and probably share, open up about some of their, you know, situations. I'm sure it's probably happened quite frequently,

Tanya Jones 24:25

every presentation, not I mean, quite frequently would be an understatement. Every single presentation, there is a line of individuals waiting to talk to us to talk to me personally, to thank me for doing this for sharing their own personal trauma for saying that you have just empowered me to share my story, because I haven't even come forward yet and said that I'm a victim of sexual assault, or I've been contemplating suicide, like every single presentation, and that is what drives me to Keep going forward to keep pushing to keep doing the work that we do, because of that one person that says, Thank you, I appreciate you. And I appreciate them, I appreciate their candor, and their desire to just want to be better for themselves and not want to, you know, be in silence alone. And that, you know, folks just really do come forward and share their stories and every single presentation, but not just the thriving survivor or the or the person that hasn't come forward yet. Also, the response of bystanders, you know, it's also a great way for them to share, hey, listen, this is actually what I did. And, you know, I want to know that I do the right thing. Anytime you intervene, and you stop harm, you've done the right thing, as long as you're doing it safely, you know, and so we get those individuals that share that. But when I look at the audience, I'm not just also talking to the victim, I'm not talking to the survivor, I'm not talking also to the advocates, or the commands, I'm also talking to perpetrators, because they're also in the audience, or those individuals that are exhibiting toxic behaviors that haven't necessarily crossed the line yet. But they can look on the stage and see themselves and say, Oh, my goodness, is that me, and make the hard, right decision to, you know, to change their ways, because this is prevention training. So we have to ensure that we're incorporating all of the elements of prevention, which means that we're actually talking to the person the potential perpetrators as well. And if if we can get one individual that, you know, can see themselves on that stage, maybe they're the ones that's, you know, Civ is coming to arrest or something like that, or they now have to go and talk to the MPs or something like that, maybe if they can see themselves being handcuffed or, or being interrogated, maybe they can see that, then they can say, You know what, I don't want that for me, I didn't realize that that's what I was doing. Now that I can see it, I want to make a difference. And I want to do the right thing. And if I see someone else behaving that way, you know, I can stop them. And our goal is to be able to also help those individuals that sometimes you know, young people, they find themselves in problems because they don't talk, you know, they don't ask for something as simple as consent. They don't necessarily share they they bottle that information up and just keep it to themselves. And people will kind of share in different ways that something is going on, you just have to be mindful to pay attention to those numbers. And and not miss those red flags, because people will start to show you that they're hurting.

Keith McKeever 27:55

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If you if you really look for the clues, you know, I look back on my service nurse people i i served with who? I don't know what happened. But

Keith McKeever 28:08

I can reflect back and there was probably things that were happening to people that I served with that. I have no idea. But I'm sure I'm sure things were happening. You know, this, statistically speaking, they were absolutely, absolutely what, when, where, why and how? I don't know. But you know, it is but I think the the perpetrator thing is, that's really huge, especially those who sit there who use it to toxic behaviors, those who can sit there and see themselves before they take an action. That's huge. That's probably the biggest one because unfortunately, anybody else has already crossed that line. But you don't think most people just don't don't see, it can't see what the long term impact is of their actions. And you can't use the excuse of like, oh, well, they're young, because we know that it's not always to 18 year olds or to 20 year olds in service, that, you know, sexual assault is happening. Sometimes it's supervisors who are 40 years old, with an 18 year old. So you can't use that as an excuse. Sometimes it's power, position, privilege, those kinds of things that play an impact. So like, they need to realize, because I've had conversations with quite a few people who are survivors of military sexual trauma that you know, for for them. They did something terrible and horrific. One time, maybe two times, you know, for that for that survivor, that is for the rest of their life that they're living with that physically and mentally and that is affecting them, their relationships, their spouses, their kids, their, their their friends, their family, it affects everything, it is a trickle down everything for the rest of their life. Absolutely. They're

Tanya Jones 30:11

the hidden scars that no one sees. And even though you are thriving, that is now a part of who you are, and will forever be, you know, myself, I always say, you know, I'm not my trauma. But that doesn't mean that it's not there. It's not a part of who I am. Um, it is it's fueled, you know, the work that I do, it's fueled, you know, how I use my voice, and how do I stand up and speak out and why, but it will forever be a part of me, and, and if I could have gone back in time, and not have had this happen to me, that would probably be what I would have wanted. But I also believe that everything has to happen for a reason, I believe that it had to be me, it had to be my voice, so I could use it, the way that I am now, you know, you know, maybe if it was another person, they might not have taken this road. And I truly feel blessed that I've been able to turn what was so traumatic into something so powerful. For me, you know, again, it was a part of my healing journey. But anything that we can do to just kind of get folks talking about this stuff, that's what we're here for. And so we're talking to perpetrators, when we're talking to everyone else in the audience, you know, those individuals that are exhibiting those toxic behaviors. And, and if you see an app, and you know, at the end of the day, you know, in the army, they said, you know, there are new things, or one of the new things was putting people first excuse me, putting people first and just being conscious about, you know, our battle buddies, and, and being caring people, if we would just ask folks if they're okay, if you are all right, instead of automatically assuming assuming that this person is eight up, they don't care, they don't want to be in this organization anymore. Maybe it's not that they're eight, or maybe it's not that, you know, they just don't want to be there anymore. Maybe they are suffering in silence. And there's an issue of trust, you know, they don't trust the leadership, they don't trust the command, they don't trust their their fellow battle buddies, because especially if you're talking about sexual assault, and what if they were assaulted by someone within their within their ranks, you know, they don't, they don't feel comfortable anymore. So we don't want to just automatically write those individuals off and just always assume that, you know, the person is just ate up, and they don't want to be here and that we want to process this person out of the military, maybe there's something maybe there's something more to that. So if we can create a culture of caring people, where we actually really believe in when we say, that's our battle buddy, and see that person that way. And know that if anything happens to that individual, you know, I'm going to be there for them. If we can start really embracing that concept, I think we'll also start to see those changes taking place.

Keith McKeever 33:08

I could not agree more. I am a firm believer that everybody, especially those that are charged you know, officers and NCOs, senior NCOs those who've gone through the training to be leaders. Everybody's a leader, yes. But everybody, especially those individuals going through the training should be looking at everybody in their unit, all their battle buddies, and getting some sort of a feel or assessment for everybody's, I guess we'll say, their their, like their neutral behavior. You know, some people are high energy, some people are low energy, you know, everybody's personality, their their core standard.

Keith McKeever 33:56

Flow, you know, I mean, everybody's different. So that, you know, when, when Tanya comes in tomorrow, if her behavior, or her attitude is wildly different than yesterday, you know, if she's, you know, at a scale of one to 10, she's at a five, nine times out of 10. But she comes in, and she is irate and angry today, or she's really, really low and depressed. Like there's something wrong. Okay. You need to ask the questions, right? Yeah, pull that person aside in a safe way and be like, Hey, what's going on?

Keith McKeever 34:29

It's gonna your personal life professionally, can I help? I'm here, I'm your battle, buddy. What can I do for you? Right? You know, but you got to know what the baseline is. You got to know your people. But like you said, it comes to talking. Absolutely. Communicate.

Tanya Jones 34:46

Absolutely. Absolutely. And building healthy relationships because that's really what that is, you know, if leaders are building healthy relationships with their workforce, or you know, whether it's tune sergeants or you know, school Why'd leaders, even ncyc is of your organization's, you know, if you build healthy relationships and you create that dialogue very early on, you're going to be able to make that assessment and be able to determine if something is off, because there's been a kind of a change in that person's behavior, you're going to be able to notice that. But again, that dialogue, having that conversation, and then not only just having that conversation, the other thing is, if someone comes to you, and tell you, Yes, I am going through something, you need to know what the next response is going to be. Because sometimes that is also a fair, sometimes people are not willing to be actively engaged with wanting to know what's going on with someone else. Because if they say, this is what I'm dealing with, they may not know what to do. So you know, make sure that you're also tapped into your, your resources, whether you are on active duty, and you need to know where your sharp or separate offices are, or your Fusion directorates are, or your you know, mental health or suicide prevention, know where those offices are. And then if you are, you know, are veteran and you're no longer in the military, there's other resources available to you, whether it's the VA or agencies, and you know, national agencies like rain or that kind of thing, know what those agencies are around you so that if someone was comfortable enough, and they trusted you enough to share on in pain, you now know who to take them to, you know, because you can't fix the problem yourself. But at least if you know the resource, you can, you know, send them to the right person and align them and walk them there. You know, if they trust you enough, walk them there and make sure that that individual is safe.

Keith McKeever 36:57

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Don't don't just hand somebody off and say, Well, you need to go talk to the chaplain. You know, there's chaplains office. Exactly, you know, hey, let's, let's hop in the car. Let's go over there after duty, whatever. You know, even if you maybe you know, I'm no expert in this. But maybe you offer to make the phone call be like, Would you like me to make the phone call and get the chaplain to make sure the chaplains there at 530? After an after, after we're off for the duty day, right? And then I will take you over there and my car, and then you can go and have that conversation, but I'll walk in that door with you. You're gonna have to walk through that final door with them. But I wait now that lobby for you to you gotta be the battle, buddy.

Tanya Jones 37:47

You have a buddy? Yeah, yeah, you have to be the battle buddy. Because who knows? You literally man save someone's life and you don't even know it.

Keith McKeever 37:57

And think about it like this. Day that person needs somebody. If the shoe was on the other foot, would you want somebody there for you?

Keith McKeever 38:10

Because the answer is gonna be yes. Yeah. Because you, you don't want to be out in that lonely space, where you feel like you're flopping around and no man's land, you know, you're the fish, fish on the on the shore. Like, hey, I'm out here alone. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, you need somebody there with you, that I got you.

Keith McKeever 38:30

Especially if it's somebody in your chain of command. You don't have that comfort. And it's like, we're gonna go here we're gonna go to, you know, the chaplain or the was a sapper or that you know, the sexual assault office or we're gonna go to the Inspector General's office or we're gonna go to legal whatever, wherever, wherever you're gonna go. Maybe it's a financial issue. We're gonna go to finance, we're going to take care of this issue, whatever the case is, like, sometimes you just need to add. Yeah, sometimes sometimes it's just a bad day and sometimes somebody's just like, hey, look, I'm just dealing with some personal issues. I'm just dealing with X y&z Maybe they just need somebody to vent to for for 20 minutes. Yeah, just lend an ear.

Tanya Jones 39:07

That's it. It's so easy. It's so easy to make someone smile. It's easy to be kind. It's easy to be caring doesn't take any effort. You know, it really doesn't. You know, I would tell folks all the time, I know people like Well tell me I don't ever really see you upset or angry or mad. I'm like, I get upset. But, but you know, I can't devote energy into it for a long period of time. You got to let that stuff go. That manifests into disease and heartache and, and poor health. And I can't do that. You know, it's easy for me to be kind. It's easy for me to just ask someone, are you okay? And allow them to tell me Yes, I'm okay. I'm all right. Um, and sometimes, you know, especially with, we're just coming out of the pandemic, right. And everything was social distance, social distance, social distance. And you know, I would tell everyone all the time, okay, I get it. We've got to physically, you know, keep our distance. But don't jump on the social distance bandwagon because people are in isolation and people are still suffering. So don't keep them more isolated. Check in on your battle buddies. Sometimes a phone call is so much better than attacks, you know? Because with the texts, if I asked you, are you okay? It's easy for me to say yep. Okay. Yeah, I'll give you a thumbs up, and you don't know what I'm dealing with. So sometimes it's okay to pick up the phone and call that person and say, Are you okay? Are you all right? Especially you know, that folks are going through some stuff, when you're dealing with mental health or depression, and hold those individuals accountable and say, You know what, but I'm going to call you tomorrow? Are you going to answer the phone tomorrow, when I call you, you know, it, like little things like that, you have no idea how much they can really help a person that struggling mentally, you know, because now that person, you know, even if it's hard for them to show up for themselves, they're now willing to show up for you and keep their promise and just be there the very next day, you know, so there's just so many different things. So just again, pick up the phone sometimes and chuckling about it buddies make sure that they're okay.

Keith McKeever 41:23

Exactly. You know, you just said something I've said a few times here on the show is, you know, I got a little ending slide and I've said it a few times. It's been a while thinks since I said it, but you know,

Keith McKeever 41:35

all of us battle buddies want our battle buddies here tomorrow. We want to hear tomorrow. Yeah. I haven't seen the official stats. But apparently, the stats have changed. And it's like 44 a day. And it's like, Come on, we are going in the wrong direction here. I get it. There's a pandemic. I know that that definitely played a factor in it. But we're man, we're really going in the wrong direction on this.

Tanya Jones 42:01

Yeah, yeah, we do. We've got to come together. And we just, I mean, we we have got to just look out for our battle buddies, we really do we say battle so easy, you know, oh, that's my battle. That's my battle. But if your battle is struggling, do you really know? Are you checking in on them? Do you know what they're going through with their families? Okay. Um, you just have to make that phone call.

Keith McKeever 42:26

And you never know. I mean, sometimes your battle buddies can. Kid look like they're doing good. I've got battle buddies who, you know, looks like everything's going good. I know, some guys that everything on the outside looks like it's going good. But I know, on the inside, there's a lot of pain, there's a lot of hurt, that those guys have almost become a statistic. You know, I mean, we all have our ups and downs. I mean, I've had days where, you know, I've never I, you know, I've had days over the last couple months, where I'm trying to find clarity in my mind and directions with a way of going, and that depression, and you could find yourself just down, you know, not not to that point where, you know, you start thinking and planning things, but where are you just, you're just down and you're just like, man, and even in this space, after doing man over 100 episodes of this now talking about mental health all the time, like, I'm very well aware that even get down in that space. You are a slippery slope away from some very dangerous thoughts. Yes, yes. So this is a very scary place to be. And you know, you just gotta have those women. And luckily, you know, I do have some, I do have some battle buddies that do check on me every now and then they send me some messages. You know, I, like, I got my wife. You know, that's, that's the ultimate battle, buddy. You know, she didn't serve. And I've told her, like, hey, if I start, you know, if my base level starts to change, and I start kind of getting down, I need you to grab me. You know, here's the resources. Here's the number you know, I mean, don't let me slip down this hole. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, it's not just on the battle buddies, either. It's on the families. Oh, absolutely. I got you know, I know you got you got some adult kids. I got two kids, you know, they're they're, you know, preteens at this point. But I've had conversations with my oldest you know, I've I showed him a post I didn't know the gentleman but it's floating around Facebook here voted last couple of weeks about I guess over last week that you know, the gentleman posted a hit a wife same first name was my wife actually and he was just you know, too much at work too much stress too many things going on. He had at least one kid couldn't do it anymore. He was gonna be a statistic. And and none of his battle buddies could could reach them that night and he did become a statistic. And it's like, ah, Manual. There was another, you know, unfortunately, we just another one fell through the cracks. And I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I showed that post to my 12 year old. And, you know, because I'm very open with my kids sit with at least my 12 year old, you know, because he kind of understands mental health and he's done some volunteer stuff with me. And I was like, Look, you know, these vets struggle, he's listened to free offices, the podcast, and I'm like, this, this stuff is real. This is why dad does this podcast. This is this is, this is real. This is why we need help around here. This is why vets need help. He's like, man, you know, that's really powerful. Dad, that's, that's, that's a shame. You know? I was like, yeah, it is.

Tanya Jones 45:54

Yeah, it really is. And you know, and I just appreciate you, as well, Keith, you know, and having this platform and making it so that veterans can come on here, share their stories, share their you know, whether it's triumph it and even some of their their trauma. But it's also a reminder to other veterans that, you know, you're not alone. You know, you're not alone in this battle. You're not alone in this fight. Yes, there's a stigma. Yes, there's stereotypes, but we need to break the violence, the biases, and show one another that listen, I'm going through some serious stuff here to metal. And if you you know, if you need something, give us a call, you know, and we'll try to see what we can do to point you in the right direction and get you the help you need. So having this platform, thank you so much, because it's just a great way for other veterans to see that you know, you're not alone. In your suffering, you're really not alone.

Keith McKeever 46:57

Thank you. I look at it like we all have, we have to take care of each other. Yeah. And I mean, I can't. I mean, I know I know, a lot of fellow vets, I can't pick up the phone and call everybody every day. And, you know, I look at his great opportunity to educate and inspire you know, every episode I want to that's kind of the main goal, educate and inspire one or the other or both. Both is great, too. But it's a great way to just reach out to other vets, and offer hope, educate and inspire. It's just just me doing my one little action to try and reach. I think we all like we all need to find something, it doesn't have to be huge. You know, you've got your way, I've got my way. If we all just go out there and find something, I don't care if it's picking up

Keith McKeever 47:49

garbage out on the side of the street, or if it's volunteering at your VFW or your American Legion or what it is in your community serving veterans not serving veterans, everybody needs to get involved. It we all put on a uniform, we all know what it is to serve. Most important thing is to find purpose.

Tanya Jones 48:08

Find purpose. Yes. Find purpose. Yeah. And like

Keith McKeever 48:12

for me, this podcast gives me purpose. It's like, you know, I have days where I've been down. It's like,

Keith McKeever 48:23

I couldn't give up on this podcast. This gives me purpose. I've got messages to spread. I've got other battle buddies messages to spread. We've got people to reach, we got people to impact can't give up on it.

Keith McKeever 48:40

You know, nothing to once you you know, you can't there's a mission. It's got to continue. The numbers aren't going down. They're going up. Not going down. I could give up on this when the numbers is zero.

Tanya Jones 48:53

Yeah, I've said that.

Keith McKeever 48:57

thing. Yeah. So let's, you know, like we said, if we all just pitch in and we work really hard, and we take care of ourselves, we could work ourselves out of a job.

Tanya Jones 49:06

Absolutely, absolutely. I've said that I've said the same thing. I've said, You know what, I would love a day where I could work or wake up and say, I don't have to do this work anymore. Because, you know, we are now in a society where everything is just, you know, working the way that it's supposed to. But unfortunately, at this, you know, in this day and age, there isn't a society that exists, that in which violence doesn't exist. There isn't a society right now, that exists without violence, and anything that I can do to just minimize the level of violence we're seeing, because it's just one more person committed to not being that violent persons and not exhibiting those behaviors. Then, you know, we're heading in the right direction. We're heading in the right direction and One of the things I think, also what's great about your show is that, you know, folks get an opportunity to come on here and kind of share some of the unique ways that they're giving back to the community, especially amongst us as veterans, you may be able to tap into someone that's doing something similar to what you like, you know, our organization is comprised of so many different veterans who knew there were so many other veterans that had experienced trauma that also wanted to act, you know, and it's just, it's just a team of us. And one of my, my guys, an amazing actor, he was supported 18 airborne division, and, you know, at Fort Bragg jumping out of airplanes, and now he's acting, you know, and, but when we're doing our presentations in front of other military, he gets to use language that, you know, other soldiers use, and it's relatable. And it's like, you know, what, I believe him, I believe that story, because then I was right there with you, brother. And, and that's really cool. So I think also having this platform, you know, it's a great way for other veterans to kind of network and say, hey, you know, what, I, I, like, please, I like theater, I want to do something similar to that, or, you know, I want to, you know, do a podcast, you know, can you share some information with me, so I can learn, so I appreciate that as well.

Keith McKeever 51:23

I've had a few people, you know, kind of see that too, like, oh, yeah, I'd like to be a podcast. Yeah, I've learned a lot over 100 plus episodes, three years. So like, Sure, I'll teach you everything I know, I don't care. You know, I don't know it all. But I learned a lot of things by doing it, you know, by doing it, you know, biggest thing is, you just got to do it. You know, just figure out what you're going to do and just do it. But, but now, it's pretty cool. But the, you know, the airborne guy that that's acting, because that's got to be just like yourself, like, it's got to be so incredibly rewarding. Oh, yeah, to do that. And be like, I know, I'm making an impact, especially when it's a military connected, or government audience or things like that to be like, Alright, I know, there's somebody in this audience, like, there's always gonna be somebody in the audience that's going to get a takeaway, like you said, but particularly there, because it's so much like, more deep and raw, like, I had a conversation with somebody last couple of days at a work thing for myself. And they were, we were talking about something work related. And I tried explaining to them, like, kind of what it is to be a vet. And they were like, would you invest in this, this and this, like, into, you know, something, you know, work related to real estate related. And I was like, you know, I mean, I invest a little bit into that, into that thing. But I don't invest a lot, right? Not to not to the level that they want monetarily. And, and they're like, Well, why not? And I said, Well, I so hopefully, I can articulate this well enough as like, but in this particular one, I known her for years, but she didn't serve. And I was like, I may have been around real estate for, you know, because I grew up around it. I've been selling for 10 years, I may have been around for 30 something years, and I'm very passionate about it. I'm very passionate about being an advocate for private property rights, all those kind of things, I may be more than willing to invest some money into protecting those private property rights. But nothing even though I've been doing this 10 years been around for 30 Something, nothing will compare to the, to the five and a half years that I wore a uniform, the connections that I made on two deployments, the connections I've made doing this podcast and other veterans groups, the stories I've heard the very unfortunate posts that I've seen about people saying this is it, and we know that they're not there tomorrow. It's so deeply into your heart. So woven into who you are, like you said, like it's part of who you are. And it's almost like, I was like, I'm sorry, like, I can be passionate about that too. But it's just never going to be as deep and raw and real. To be as this is, yeah, this is always going to be number one. Yeah. I'm always going to if I'm looking down a fork in the road, and it's like, do this or go help a battle buddy that's laying in the street. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know which direction I'm going. Yeah, I'm gonna go pick up my battle, buddy. There's no choice. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah.

Tanya Jones 54:45

I agree with you on that. I I didn't know what my career was going to be like. I wasn't even thinking about a career when I first came into the military. But it just over the 25 years. I would not have traded this for anything else in the world. You know, there's nothing like serving your country. And there's nothing like the bands and the camaraderie of all of the folks that you've met over the years, the good, the bad, the ugly, like, all of it, I wouldn't trade any of it. And all of it has, you know, helped me become the person that I am today, some of my oldest and dearest friends today, we go back, you know, 25 years, you know, I met them at my first duty station, and we're still friends to this day. And so I'm right there with you. You know, when I, when I see another veteran, doesn't matter, you know, what branch of service they are, there's just a level of connection. And then we're both from the same branch of, you know, service.

Tanya Jones 55:51

I mean, it's, it's like, Oh, my goodness, okay. All of a sudden, every word that comes out my mouth is Hola.

Keith McKeever 56:00

Well, it actually happened at my event the other day, too, because it was it was, you know, politically surrounded, it was, you know, at the state capitol. And so one of our state senators came to the little, you know, happy, happy hour thing afterwards. And somebody else brought him over, because he found out he was an Air Force vet. And so there's other people around who are not vets, and we're talking and this guy comes over, and he's like, Keith, Hey, you gotta meet this state senator. He's an Air Force vet. And so he shakes my hand, he's like, oh, what career field were you in? And he goes, I'm gonna I was an officer, and I was, you know, blah, blah, a camera we would. And so like, we're just start just like, never met each other before. Yeah. And we're like, instant friends. And like, the conversation is instantly between him and I, everybody else is just completely ignored. And everybody else was like, what's going on? And we just could completely engaged in conversation for 10 minutes, nothing real estate, all military, we're just serve what you do well. And it's like, everybody else, just people just started, like just walking away.

Tanya Jones 56:58

It's like, you speak your own language. I love that. I mean, I don't you don't even realize that it's happening when it's happening. But just because you so excited, that you're meeting someone that has, you know, has kind of been there, you know where you are. And, and so I love and same thing happened to me just yesterday, as a matter of fact, and you know, I'm talking and I'm sharing and telling, you know, okay, this is what we do with interactive advocacy, that kind of thing. And then, you know, one of the young ladies that I was talking to, she was like, oh, yeah, and I was stationed here and there and, and I started telling her, she was like, wait, you must say, I was like, your army who? And she was like, Oh, my gosh, and then everything, just from there. Everyone else was like, like you said, What are they talking about? Like, they took over the whole entire conversation. And it was great. And you know, we're gonna meet for lunch with a couple of days. So I'm right there with you on that level that bonds. That brotherhood, that sisterhood. It's just one of those things that's just kind of unbreakable?

Keith McKeever 57:55

Absolutely. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that we we have to we have to step that up a notch? Yeah, you know, we have to, we have to take that and just, we have to 10x that, you know, to make an impact on those numbers. But you know,

Keith McKeever 58:15

how we do that, I don't know. But I guess we're all we're all fine in our ways. And, and I appreciate everything that you're doing. I really am looking forward to check it out. I'm gonna keep a really close eye on your calendar, see where you are, you guys are doing some things.

Keith McKeever 58:32

Because I very, very intrigued, especially, you know, we really didn't hit on it. But I know you got the facilitation and some of that other stuff behind it. I think, you know, it's great to see all the play, but then to sit there and have conversations and purposeful conversations behind things is just, it's huge. So I really look forward to that. And like I said earlier, anybody. Anybody who's looking for something like that definitely needs to reach out to you. Like, I'll have the scrolling there. Get your website, scroll in there. It'll be in the show notes too. So have no fear. It'll be there for anybody who's watching or listening. But where else can people reach out to and find you, other than your website, or

Tanya Jones 59:15

a website, check out all of our social media platforms, everything at interactive advocacy. If you go to our Google us, you'll see everywhere where we're located, you definitely want to follow us on our IG page, because there we share a lot of the different things that we're doing. We do a lot of virtual presentations that are free. So you have an opportunity to kind of jump in, we do a lot of creative expression pieces, we have poetry events, all that stuff is you know, online, we do advocacy and poetry, it's online, it's free. And you can participate. You can come share your stories, or you can just chat with us, you know, and even if you need resources, you can reach out to us and request them and we can get some stuff sent over to you. So all everything activity NTSC

Keith McKeever 1:00:01

and makes it nice and easy to remember. So there you go. That's a, that's definitely easy to remember. And everybody should definitely go check that out. So I appreciate you, Tanya for coming on here and sharing a little bit about what you do. And definitely great conversation about mental health. I have no doubt that that will be helpful for some people. And maybe we maybe we get lucky and a few people pick up the phone and called some battle buddies, or hopefully they waited until after the show here. If you have it, there's a queue, pick up the phone call battle, buddy. So yeah. So I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing with us.

Tanya Jones 1:00:37

Thank you so much again. Thank you, Keith. I appreciate you having me. It was a pleasure. Yep.

Keith McKeever 1:00:42

You enjoy that. Enjoy that rest of that trip in Hawaii there. Oh, thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. You too. All right. There you have it, folks. I hope you enjoyed that. Speaking of resources, I've got my website battle buddy podcast.net. As I always say, if there's something that's not on there and you think it should be on there, please reach out and let me know if I think it's a good fit, then I'll look at trying to incorporate that somewhere on the website. And if you're struggling remember, the National Suicide Hotline number is 980 Press one where you can text 838255