The VA system is not an easy agency to deal with all the time. With many benefits, rules, regulations the VA systems is complicated at a minimum. Army veteran, Jane Babcock, has been serving veterans for years helping them get the benefits they have earned. Along the way she has seen behind the VA curtain and knows their systems like the back of her hand. In this episode we pull back that curtain a little and get her best advice and opinions on navigating the VA system.

Guest Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janebabcock/

2talkveteran@gmail.com

Transcript from Episode 22 with Jane Babcock:

Keith McKeever 0:01

Welcome to the battle buddy podcast with Keith McKeever. Welcome everybody to another episode of battle buddy podcast. I've been waiting for this day because I've got Jean backpack on and the amount of knowledge in your brain is unbelievable. We met on clubhouse handful of months ago. You're constantly in rooms talking about anything, everything claims and VA related and all that stuff. And you've got that unique perspective yourself as a veteran. But as somebody who's been a VSO, it's so you know, those inner workings and you know, from our from our seat, you put a veteran hat on for both of us, you know, what that's like, and the struggles and all that stuff. So it makes you you know, a true. People love going to you versus somebody. I'm sure most of you those are, that's themselves, but somebody who isn't, that can't relate. So now further ado, I've got Jane Babcock here. So tell us a little about your stories and your your military story and how you got where you're at today.

Jane Babcock 1:02

Well, at the age of 23, I decided to follow the family tradition, and have at least one person in every generation in the military. So came home told that I was in that was interesting, because he's has a harem. A wife, five daughters had a bitch dog. So he did not expect the military. So I did four and a half years active duty, the person had a great time. But I also had a great learning experience. I was electronics, crypto repair, and then went into installation work. So I had an offer for a nice paying job out in Washington DC. And I took it and 11 months later I went and miss the people. So I joined the Reserves. Yeah, you know, I mean, there's a lot of work you can put up with because of the people. And there's a lot of work you can't put up with because of the people. So I did get activated for Desert Storm went to the Pentagon, but a few days later, they went oh, they're doing such a good job. You can go home. So it got on the subway went back to my old job. It's an I'll see you guys tomorrow. But I ended up moving. Yeah, I ended up moving back to Wisconsin got connected with a unit at Fort McCoy military intelligence, switch to my third MLS and became fiery in the schoolhouse administratively for the command and did all that. And then I came out as a recruiter here to Manitowoc. So I had a great time at Fort McCoy was there May to September every year, and then I came here for three years as a recruiter. Then I went back to the reserves, because anybody that's been a recruiter will probably pretty much tell you, it sucks when it comes to family life.

Keith McKeever 3:06

I've always had a lot of friends that have done it, that are doing it or have done in the past and outside perspective living in totally agree with that. So I don't need to have a family life, especially with the job demands and quotas. And yes, that's something I wouldn't wanted to do.

Jane Babcock 3:21

But at the same time, it's great. You meet these young people with all these dreams, and they're trying to figure out how to get those dreams, whether it's college money, whether it's job training, for me, it was job training. 23 working in a factory didn't know what I wanted to do when I got out of high school said, Oh, I'll save my money. And then I'll go to school. Yeah, that worked real well. Had lots of money in the bank. When I turned 23. No, cool. So yep. So I went to the army and got one year of training in and they said, You know, I said what's the longest MLS I can get? And they went, Well, this one, but you have to wait six months. They said, No, that's too much time I might chicken out. So what's the next one? And they said, Well, that's two months Wait, and it's a year long school and I went, I'll take that. And that's how I became a crypto tech.

Keith McKeever 4:11

Yeah, as far as you're kind of similar in some way. We're kind of the I was 21. And I felt like going through basic training at tech school. Like I was the old guy. Like I was the oldest one there. But like even in your early 20s Like you're still older than everybody else. You had some life experience. And it was like, wow, like 18 year olds. Like you don't know anything about life. Not that I did at 21.

Jane Babcock 4:36

But we have so much more experience. Oh,

Keith McKeever 4:39

what was more life experience? Yeah, in those two years or three years or whatever. But yeah,

Jane Babcock 4:43

I stepped off the candle car. The DI looked at me goes how old are you? privateness 23 drill sergeant and he went your new name his mom who? I was older than him. So I became that private bomb. Yes. Drill Sergeant, go see if that's an army problem. If it is send her to me if it's a girl thing you take care of it.

Keith McKeever 5:07

But that happens more often than I don't know, I didn't have that perspective. But we did have two guys in my tech school class that had just kind of what the timing was, I think the cutoff age in 2006 was like 3836 3738, or something like that for enlistment. And these two guys, one of them had just missed them by month, one of them missed him by two weeks. For them,

Jane Babcock 5:29

you have to be able to complete your 20 years prior to your 60th birthday. So then they subtract off and I used to be that you could go all the way up to 40. And then it was 35. And then it was, you know, so they slide that rule up and down all the time.

Keith McKeever 5:47

Yeah, I think at the time was like, I think they were like 36, or 37, which is funny, because I was like my age now. And I look back on it. I'm like, Man, those guys were old. And they could not keep up. Like, they pass the training. And they were smart. And they brought a lot to the table and they were our leaders. But they noticed that we struggled when it came to the PT and keeping up with some of those things. And I look back and I'm like, man, he really struggled. I'm like, I'm the same age now. Yeah, I would look pretty ridiculous to if I was doing less right now.

Jane Babcock 6:15

Just the fact that they had that desire to do it. But at the same time, when I was the CBSO, up in Quwata. County, I helped the county sheriff had four years in the Corps before he became a police officer. And he said, You know, I thought I often thought about the retirement because I was talking about my benefits. And I said, Well, you know, you're still young enough, you could do it. And he's like, Oh, no, I can't do it now. And I'm going to tell women, you got to subtract four years off your age, because of the four years you already did. So you have to hit your 20 before you're 60 That's all that matters. And he's like, he goes, I can do it if I enlist, you know, like in the next 90 days. And he did and what he was, yeah, so he didn't like he said at 60. He'll have health care on his family in retirement check.

Keith McKeever 7:07

Totally worth it. And a bunch of paychecks along the way, at all

Jane Babcock 7:11

levels. Yeah. Yeah, with all the active duty time I have my retirement check is somewhere over $1,500 I don't know. And, you know, and then the TRICARE insurance.

Keith McKeever 7:28

It's already off with it that should be taken heavily in consideration when joining in when you know when that reenlistment period comes along, you know, if you're at that time year, I never got to the 10 year period but I know that's a tipping tipping point for a lot of people do to stay in and suck it up for another 10 years. Deal with it cross train whatever to to get to that 20 Because those those benefits are totally worth it. Well, yeah,

Jane Babcock 7:53

if you're active duty and you got eight or 10 years in, switch over to the reserves. You can have the opportunity to pick up a new limb Wes you know, I've got five and was

Keith McKeever 8:06

you ever make you did anybody in your teeny command ever just look at you and be like, Well, James on our fifth MLS she'll know she'll know something about this. Does it get you extra jobs? They get you balling told for things?

Jane Babcock 8:19

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was voluntold march in President Bush senior's inaugural parade.

Keith McKeever 8:28

Wow.

Jane Babcock 8:29

Yeah, it was one of those. We need volunteers. It's kind of like when I was in Korea, they go we need volunteers to take the urinalysis test. Look, which was my main name, because I knew I wouldn't be hot.

Keith McKeever 8:43

wants to ask for volunteers to go take.

Jane Babcock 8:46

Yeah, because it was so difficult to do large funds that they would take percentages of each unit on base.

Keith McKeever 8:54

Oh, when I was in, I was voluntold to go to urinal. Yeah, I lost track how many times it was but I know in five and a half years I went and pee for the government at least 20 times. And it was always funny because especially when I was in Japan Misumi was her name and she you know working on the command. And she would call that's the only time she would call call my my dorm room. Cell phone I pick it up is Mr. McKeever there is little soft little voice I guess Misumi I'll be there 15 minutes cuz that's the only thing you call me about. Yeah. Yeah, that's not the funnest thing in the world. But hey, you know, you get used to the routine. You just knew every couple months for me at least it was every couple months expect a phone call. There goes I finally figured out after time was like they're not picking on me. Phil's you know, like you. I'm just the control. Right? You got to test so many samples. I'm just the control. You know, after after I haven't been hot for 15 times in a row. You know, I'm not doing drugs. So, you know, help narrow down the ones that are I guess, I don't know how all that works but never cared to know too much. But we talked a little bit, we kind of jump ahead and one of my questions to kind of talk about different generations of people kind of curious, from your perspective. What are the big differences when it comes to benefits and stuff like that for the different generations? You know, for younger guys like me all the way up to the World War Two guys, is there. Is there major differences that you see in issues or treatment? at the VA?

Jane Babcock 10:33

Yes, unfortunately, there is. In 1976, post Vietnam, the VA, so numbers estimated that there were 31 million plus veterans. As of 19, or 2019, they estimated 19 million. So we've lost 12 million. Of those 19, only eight of them are post our pre Vietnam, our post via pre 99, or 76. So out of 31, there's 8 million life. That leaves a lot of widows out there. A lot of them that never knew about VA, you know, I look back and I go, gee, there didn't used to be a VA clinic 30 miles from here. And there didn't used to be the great big clinic an hour away. So they had no clinics. It's like the Transition Assistance Program. I retired in 2004, I was on a 45 training thing, 45 day training mission out in the high tech in Sacramento. We were supposed to go into Afghanistan the next summer. And I was out there doing some strengthening skills, strengthening, training. And I was in a non combat injury accident line of duty, basically ran into a pole and ended up blowing out a disc in my neck and tearing up my shoulder and breaking my elbow. And I didn't realize that when I got back in within a few months, the progression of the loss of feeling in my arm and the pain in my shoulder and this and that I think I finally went into a neurosurgeon, and they said, Oh, the only solution is to cut your neck. So this little scar that I have here, they cut me open and they took out a disc and put in a cadaver disc and put in some metal bracing and screws and stuff like that, put my neck back in alignment to relieve the pressure on the nerves that were making me lose my sensation in my arm. And I went to my unit and I said, you know, I'm stoned on biking and I walked in Hey, guys, I gotta get my neck cut. You know, the goods, slice my throat over next week. And they went, Okay, sign here. You're in the retired reserves. We're getting ready to go to Afghanistan. And you've got 21 Plus, so you're good. That was my transition. In fact, I didn't even turn in my Yeah, I didn't even turn in my field gear. I did that months later.

Keith McKeever 13:24

Wow. Yeah, definitely a different time for many different aspects. But yeah, especially with the 2004 I mean, early in the war and stuff like that. And in the unit, we know all about transition and all that stuff. It's crazy.

Jane Babcock 13:39

Yeah. And the unit administrator didn't know. Granted, we were a very small detachment and the unit administrator was kind of learning the job on the job. But there was no mention of EA no mention of compensation. No, you can go to them and get your surgery since it was line of duty. There was nothing. No, not even they didn't even mention the fgli VG li thing.

Keith McKeever 14:08

So they just mail your mail your DD 214 You just get in the mail and you're like August special now.

Jane Babcock 14:15

Well, in the worst part about reserves, it'll mail you a DD 214 Because you're coming off of reserve weekend there is no DD 214

Keith McKeever 14:21

Okay, right. Yeah. Unless you had Yeah, unless you're activated right then they issue one when the deactivated Yeah, yeah.

Jane Babcock 14:28

So I knew nothing. I missed and then it was six months before they got me my retirement orders. So technically, I had my surgery while I'm still in duty. I wasn't on duty status, but because it was line of duty. I could have asked for a medical review board to see whether or not I was fit for duty and stay in If they found me to be fit for duty, or be considered for medical retirement, if I wasn't, because I had so much active duty, I had eight and a half years on DD 214. Plus, I had a whole bunch of ad SW hours or days. So when it all got pressed down by 21 years equated to almost 13 years of active duty of duty time. Yeah, so because I crossed that magic eight year number, I was eligible for medical retirement under eight years, unless you are rated extremely high. So you're only rated at 40%. Then and determined not to be fit for duty, then they offer you severance.

Keith McKeever 15:43

Okay, so what what percentage then, for those younger ones, so you're in two years and you got a back injury? You know, what, what percentage of the normal were looking at before they crossed that severance to learn

Jane Babcock 15:55

more, it has more to do with time. And if they will, if you ask for a bed bar, and you have service related injuries, they have to give you an exit exam and they have to decide what your rating is. A lot of guys are getting that rating anyways, because they're going for their VA rating. Well, if your VA rating is high, go back and see if your Med board qualified. Because what they look at is, obviously if you have a 10% hearing loss, that does not stop you from being eligible in the military. Right. Okay. So you have a shoulder injury. And okay, so you're not going to be able to wear Battle Rattle. But that doesn't mean you can't be a radio operator at the top. That's

Keith McKeever 16:40

true. Yeah, there's definitely so yeah, that will require all that gear. Yeah,

Jane Babcock 16:44

yeah. Just because you're rated 40% doesn't mean you're not gonna be able to stay in it just means do we have to look at you for rereading? I mean, look at these guys that are losing a limb and staying in a

Keith McKeever 16:57

very valid point.

Jane Babcock 16:59

So it's not Yeah, it's for duty, not disability rating.

Keith McKeever 17:06

Yeah, that was really pretty unheard of more than maybe 1520 years ago. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, people have gone back on duty. And this is it's like, you know, why can't you? Right? Right. And can you sit there and work or phone work or radio? Yeah. Can you? Can you still, you know, when you

Jane Babcock 17:22

work in electronics maintenance job, that's back in the safe zone?

Keith McKeever 17:27

Yeah, we all know, there's plenty of boring jobs that just require somebody to sit in a chair.

Jane Babcock 17:33

True. You know, I hate to say it, but you know, it's hard for an Airborne Ranger to become a chair board Ranger. But it's not.

Keith McKeever 17:44

Everybody in the Air Force. Anybody could sit in our chairs.

Jane Babcock 17:47

That's right. So that's how they determine you know, people say, Well, I've got a 40% rating from the VA. But if it's things like a 10% hearing loss, you know, some issues with your ankle and maybe issues with your shoulder or something. Does that stop you from being a radio operator? They'll offer you that opportunity. Do you want to be retrained and stay in? Well, if you've got 12 years in, why not to the other eight? Trains, transfer over to the reserves, but stay in and get that retirement check

Keith McKeever 18:23

if you can handle it. Yeah. If it's something that you can train into a job where it's not going to be either detriment to the mission or, or get aggravated? Like, I mean, anything can aggravate it like an ankle injury, like you say, right? Yeah. You might be on a hobble around with a brace. But you know, I mean, you're not carrying gear, you may not aggravate it, but you could also aggravate going out for regular run, or walking right tripped over the rug and aggravate it. But

Jane Babcock 18:49

well, then when you do get out, then you're gonna reach. Okay, well, yeah, you're now rated higher. Are we gonna let you stay in till you 30 years? Nope, we're not. So, you know, at any point, they may say, Okay, now we're going to reread it. Well, now if they're going to reread you, it's odds are that they are going to be looking at Med board and possible medical retirement. So now difference there is if you are young in the years and not rate high enough to be medically retired at young in the years, then you're going to be looked at for severance pay. And basically what that is, is kind of a lump sum payoff, just like VA disability. That's what they used to do is give them lump sum payouts. Because very few people went to the VA because there weren't very many VA and there weren't a lot of people out there telling them about VA. There was like I said, there was no transition 10 years ago,

Keith McKeever 19:57

was that pretty common after the Vietnam War a minute A few Vietnam vets that that have not gone to the VA. And when you kind of ask them some questions, and I get it's been 4550 or 4045 50 years, whatever. But I've heard these kind of, I guess I'll say excuses about why they never went in, or they were kind of offered something, but they didn't take it, maybe because of their job that they were going to go into had benefits and so they were going to need it or whatever. I've heard a handful of different excuses. And I'm wondering if that's what happened for some of these individuals, they were offered a lump sum or something. And they,

Jane Babcock 20:32

for part of them, yes. Um, but the other part is, is you're flying back from being in country. And your attitude is like, I just want to get these boots off. And they say to you, okay, I know what you're flying and you can stay and we will give you a full physical. Oh, we've given you a physical which consisted of somebody standing a couple feet behind you whispering after they would go. And if you said yes, your hearings good. check that off.

Keith McKeever 21:06

Sounds like an easier test to pass. And the ones that have now those are some well, you don't go down that rabbit hole.

Jane Babcock 21:11

Okay. Yeah. Does anything hurt? No, nothing hurts. Even though you're standing there with foot rock, jungle rock? They don't see it. They're not going to write it down. You're not going to tell them because you want to get those boots off? Yeah, yeah. So

Keith McKeever 21:29

I'll tell ya, get me out of here. Oh, yeah. That's understandable to like, just get me out of this country. I want to go back. I want to settle down, go about my life and do my thing.

Jane Babcock 21:38

Yeah. And veterans will sit there and say, Well, why didn't the VA Tell me? I'm sorry? Do you live at your parents address? Because that's the one that's your home of record?

Keith McKeever 21:49

Yeah, it's just like going to a store, right? And let's just say the store offers a crazy 50% discount on products to veterans? Like, do you think they're going to really like, make an effort to advertise that all the time, they're gonna be proud that they offer it, put it on every single wall, because they got to, they got to make profit, like they got a business to run, they have expenses to pay for they have things, you know, the VA is going to be the same way. They're not going to tell you all the ways and all the shortcuts.

Jane Babcock 22:18

Yeah. And that's one of my big heartburns with the VA. And if you follow me on LinkedIn, then you'll see that a lot of times when VA does articles, or when other veterans do articles about talking about benefits and stuff like that, and they'll say, Yeah, and what about those 22 million veterans from Vietnam and older, that are already deceased? Do their widows know that they're entitled to dependent indemnity compensation, or entitled to most of them would be allowed to use the war veterans pension program. But 12

Keith McKeever 22:53

veterans don't know themselves?

Jane Babcock 22:54

Right. Exactly.

Keith McKeever 22:57

Well, I got out and I looked at the VA, I'm just like, I don't know, this is just so my stepdads want to push me towards it. He goes, You got to take the records down there and go do this. So I did, and I'm glad I did. But when you look at it, it's overwhelming. Like

Jane Babcock 23:09

it is

Keith McKeever 23:10

government agency, all these moving parts. I don't know what I need to do next.

Jane Babcock 23:14

Yes. And remember, when the Vietnam guys came home, they had no knowledge of what Agent Orange was going to do to these guys. One of my veterans, it wasn't till seven, eight years ago, they put ischemic heart disease on the list. ischemic heart disease is consists of coronary artery disease and arterial sclerosis and a couple other conditions. But he had his first heart attack before he was 30. Wow. Now being that young and, quote, healthy, he recovered pretty good. And you know, and then later on, had a couple more, but by the time he was in his mid to late 50s, he had to retire. He had no choice. He was medically unable to work. But again, ischemic heart disease wasn't on the list, even though he had filed in his 40s I think it was a second or third heart attack he filed. So what they did put it on the list. He came in and he goes, Well, now I want to file again. And I said for what? And he goes from a heart disease and I went, when did you file for? And he told me so we immediately filed under the rules of financial hardship, showing that he had past due bills. He'd had a foreclosure on a house and things like this and said, you know, he filed a claim way back when and they paid him $480,000 in back pay. Because Agent Orange is the only cause of injury illness that is recognized under what's called the Neymar law. A man with a last name Neymar fought the VA all the way up to the Supreme Court and won and that was for the back pay of hey, I was messed up because uh, you it's not my fault. You guys didn't agree that the medical evidence showed this.

Keith McKeever 25:13

Anyway, you know what, you're right, taking the fight to the VA?

Jane Babcock 25:17

Yeah, you know, it's no different than being shot. You messed me up because I went in service. And you did something to me?

Keith McKeever 25:25

Yeah. No, we

Jane Babcock 25:27

did it. We did it. You

Keith McKeever 25:28

know, what's kind of going to be the issue? I'm sure. So there's long term effects to look at refuelers. You know, people work in the fuel depots or working around chemicals all the time, or, you know, those fuels go on, it's, you know, I'm not sure, you know, what are the long term benefits that we don't even know, but thankfully, that there's some fights going on.

Jane Babcock 25:49

Right. You know, thank God for the Vietnam guys. Because they know the system, they know how to find it. They know what data needs to be collected. They know about the NIH and the approval board, which meets every other year on Agent Orange to approve new conditions and stuff like this. And then the worst part about it is they'll say yes, statistically, it shows that Vietnam guys are more likely to get this condition but that it takes a couple more years for to go through the congressional so that's why like with when I was CBSO, any Vietnam guy that walked in, I would go through the litany of all the conditions and then I would say okay, now in any any other health condition going on, and they would tell me and I'd say well, it's now blessed, but we're gonna file it well, if it's not list why file it be because if five years from now it goes on the list Guess what? Do you bet

one of my guys right now he's he's fighting for Bluewater status. And if he gets sick, which I believe he will.

He's going to get back paid to when he and I filed for his cancer seven, eight years ago. Wow. He wasn't qualified them. Because blue water wasn't accepted. I was on the water I think

Keith McKeever 27:15

for a very long time. I passed about six months ago, a year ago, something like that.

Jane Babcock 27:20

Yeah, like a year ago, but the worst part about that is okay, I'm on a ship. I'm 12 nautical miles out. And we're sucking in water from the ocean to filter and then use for showers and things like that mopping the floors and whatnot on the ship. Now my ship goes 14 miles out and a helicopter lands and discharges guy that you know puts a guy onto our ship from Japan or someplace. And he's not Bluewater, even though that ship is contaminated. They didn't empty the they didn't empty out the filtration system at the 12 mile mark. So the water still coming out of the showerheads is still contaminated. And the guy that had to climb inside the filter system and scrape the sludge off the walls. Were the guy that had to climb on the plane that just flew back through a cloud of it and landed on his ship. And yet, here's to make you really disgusted. See, 123 is where the favorite distribution system for for planes flying Agent Orange over if you were part of the reserves or National Guard is Yeah, National Guard units in California. Were the ones that were receiving the planes when they were damaged. They were cannibalizing them and or when they were going to, you know, put them in permanent storage,

Keith McKeever 28:55

mothball and Davis model.

Jane Babcock 28:56

Yeah. So because 10 years later, they tore apart a plane to put it in the Smithsonian. And they went, Oh, look at all this stuff that's in the crevices and the cracks and the little cubby holes. So if you were part of that unit 10 years after Vietnam, you can still file an agent orange claim.

Keith McKeever 29:20

Wow.

Jane Babcock 29:21

But the guy that got on the ship that just spent six months inside the 12 mile zone. And because he got on it when they were at 12.2 miles. He's not exposed.

Keith McKeever 29:35

You're definitely exposed, maybe to a lesser level than an alloy. You're on the ship or you know, but you're still exposed.

Jane Babcock 29:41

Yeah, you get on the ship and the decks have been all washed with it and everything else. And your clothes that are coming out of the laundry and the shower you're stepping into.

Keith McKeever 29:53

You're probably there for at least a couple of days. So a couple of days worth of eating, drinking bathing, walking around.

Jane Babcock 29:59

Yeah. And generally when they dropped you out to ship in the Westpac it was because you were a replacement for somebody. So you were going to be there a while. So you're gonna tell me they're not exposed? No, you can't. You can't.

Keith McKeever 30:18

Yeah, they're definitely definitely exposed. You know? Wow.

Jane Babcock 30:24

Yeah. Yeah,

Keith McKeever 30:25

I didn't know that guy that

Jane Babcock 30:26

that was never served active duty 10 years later in California could file for it.

Keith McKeever 30:33

Well, that's unfortunately, and I don't hate to. I don't like to, like bad mouth, the VA or anything, but it is a government agency, and you got Congress and laws and all these different things. There's a lot of moving parts, but it's, it's a darn shame when things like that happen.

Jane Babcock 30:48

Yes. It just takes a little common sense and all willingness to do the right thing. But they're willing to vote themselves a raise, why aren't they willing to vote to give? Our veterans let's do them?

Keith McKeever 31:03

Absolutely. My wife was just telling me the data in Illinois and Illinois State Legislature passed something. I can't remember what it was now. Oh, it was, you know, a new state something or another, like, state micro? I think it was something like that like, and I was like, Are you serious? Like, they really spent their time debating and writing a bill to have a new state creature of some sort? Necessary? you'd hope? Oh, all the problems. The other problems? Yeah, all the different categories you can think of, this is the one thing they put their time and attention into.

Jane Babcock 31:39

Yep, this is what happened. And look at the guys that are coming out of the sandbox and everything. You have to go through all this rigmarole and this stuff with breathing problems. So just now putting those things on there, even though they've known for more than 10 years. Because you can't expose be exposed to that talcum find sand that was blowing around in the wind. And we find, yeah, and they sit there and they give an issue about burn pits. Well, it was you know, yeah, human waste is not good to inhale the fumes from and stuff like that. But the rest of it was like paper and this and that. It's like, dude, what do you think they did with a piece of electronic equipment when it was no longer serviceable? They didn't fly it back here to the United States to be recycled. Well, you

Keith McKeever 32:33

look at like current events. Look what's going on. And I don't dive into what's going on in Afghanistan. And all that craziness has happened over this last weekend. But the Taliban has taken over equipment, weapons, all that stuff, we left that we gave that to the Afghan army. So yeah, I mean, so it's a perfect example of we don't bring stuff back, we take it over there. And we leave it because I know that the Air Force anyway, like if you're going to ship things from one country to another, you have customs issues when it comes to microorganisms and stuff like that. You have to like de clean those pieces of equipment before they fly or transported on a ship. That's expensive and time consuming. And while we're back to vehicles that have been running, and have hundreds or 1000s of miles on them, and they've been beat up, but it's just cheaper just to leave mo they're given to the given to the government.

Jane Babcock 33:23

Well, yeah, and like the crypto equipment and everything at the embassy. I don't remember what the name of it is. But there's these pads. Basically, they look like a small book. And you put it on there and you let it rip. And it's an incendiary. It just goes right through all the equipment. And, but there's still parts of it left, but all that mercury and everything else that might be in any of the components, like I said, went into the burn pits. It was in tenderized. People were exposed to that. Rubber tires in the burn pits, everything else with everything that you didn't want the enemy to have went into those burn pits.

Keith McKeever 34:10

Yeah, it's not it's not like they really had. Well, when I was a blog, I was at the convoy gate in southern southern tip. We had a crew that would go out with their country nationals and they would go dump garbage. But it was I won't say like six or seven garbage trucks, but there was like 30,000 people there at that base. Are you telling me that that was not all the garbage? There was a lot more being burnt there. And they were going opposite direction. But that burn pit? I mean, the Air Force housing area was, you know, six, five days out of the week, you know, downwind from it. I mean, it was just blowing everywhere just kind of hangs out in the air but where the rest of that garbage has gone? I don't know. I think it was mostly food garbage from the defect. Everything else was burned. Yeah, major, major theater hospital. They're blocked on Look at those lists it is. It's very disturbing, especially to know that you've been there. I've spent 14 months of my life in between two of those locations that are the top 10, top 15. corporates for burn pits and you look at it, you're like, ah, that's just insane. I can't believe it. But I can't believe the things that are burnt, like you said batteries, tires, chemicals, human waste, medical waste, medical waste, metals, plastics, everything.

Jane Babcock 35:31

Yeah. So, and we wonder why we have respiratory problems that our troops.

Keith McKeever 35:41

Were just talking about that before we went live, it was kind of just talking about my asthma and stuff. And it's like, you know, I think probably all of us have some sort of something. I don't know that I don't know of any places in the last 20 years of war, that we didn't have a burn pit. I think almost pretty much every location had one and I would argue probably 50% of the garbage at those locations was burned.

Jane Babcock 36:04

Well, okay. Here's another example of that. We, the US are still remediating ancient Orange from the ground in Vietnam. We are paying for that. We are supervising it. And yet, we're not concerned with the long term effects. Again, it's the 12 mile think, How can you say that it disappeared off the ships or the planes or anything else? That moved out 12 miles. Yeah, if they were inside that zone at any point, and they took it on, it's there. It's just give it up guys. It's there. But you're going to sit there and say, Oh, no, it disappeared. But we're still digging it up out of the ground over there. Because there people are still contacting the agent orange through their food and their animals and everything else.

Keith McKeever 37:06

Your question is how what happens at food with their exports? Are we bringing in any imports into this country that are coming from there that could be affected from that? Because right affects the potential all the population in United States?

Jane Babcock 37:19

Well, when you think about it, look how much plastic we are sucking through the air. The plastic fibers are fish and everything else there is no such thing as fish without without plastic in it. There's islands of plastic garbage floating out in the ocean and wears away into the water and the fish inhale it and the fish digested and everything else. And then we eat fish. So it's just there, it's present. Now, can we look back at this and say, Well, this is just we mammals and the Earth's evolution to wherever it's going to be 20 years from now or 200 years from now? Yes, but does that still mean we just keep going in that direction? Are we going to end up growing a third eye because of it?

Keith McKeever 38:14

I keep an eye on my kids but

Jane Babcock 38:17

Well, I told my husband when I die bury me facedown because every six months I get Botox shots in the back of my neck to keep me from ending up in the emergency room from the migraine headaches because of the way they put my neck back together. So I have the smoothest neck not a wrinkle to be had.

Keith McKeever 38:39

Oh yeah, that's a pro that's a positive hey, look outside life right? Well,

Jane Babcock 38:47

the best looking neck for a 62 year old woman there

Keith McKeever 38:52

wow. I don't even need to do Botox in the neck is blowing my mind here Botox in the neck and the agent orange 10 years later.

Jane Babcock 39:01

So if you're if you're a veteran out there with a neck injury and suffering or and or I really think that these are also related to the burn pits for some people because you can't suck in all those poisons and not have issues with your sinuses and everything else and finally admitting the sinuses. But how many people are getting triggered migraines because of it? Well, if you're having lots of episodes of migraine, Botox is amazing. This last year I had one I couldn't go a week without only one before we go. I was in the emergency room because they would start in the middle of the night. By the time I woke up I was in the fetal position dry heaving. So if you are suffering migraines, go talk to him about the different treatment plans through the VA it's amazing what these guys have discovered and and are using now and giving us as far as acupuncture, Botox and other things like that.

Keith McKeever 40:00

Wow, that's that's I don't know much about Botox. But that's, that's an incredible transformation from once a weekend symptoms like that. That's incredible. To see, I was gonna say, all we're gonna be able to do is scratch the surface. Yeah, so many different things. Well, that's why like I loved it when we connected on clubhouse, and I was just gonna throw this at the bottom of screen for people that would end up watching it. But they can connect with you on LinkedIn or clubhouse, I highly recommend you do because you got some great stuff that you put out there on LinkedIn. And in clubhouse there's so many amazing conversations that you're into, oh, it goes up into into or, you know, always join each other rooms. Amazing, amazing information. So yeah, that's where you get a lot more of this very, very same talk about all these issues. And some of those like, re occur. I think he's the Raider or something like that. Forget the exact the job title. But when the two of you start talking about these things and clubhouse, it's just like, wow, sit back and just listen, because you're going to get your truth, the real story of everything is going on. And you don't have to read between a bunch of lines on some boring government regulation paperwork, and try to decide for yourself

Jane Babcock 41:14

in the VA is so much you guys that did luckily get transition taps or whatever you want to call it. You learned a little bit, you learned that there was a VA health care system that you learned that you were already eligible to use it you learn that there was a thing called compensation. And that's about it. If you were awake to hear the class. Yeah, but did the VA and do the federal handbook and say, this is the book that covers the general understanding of every benefit from VA health care to the funeral flag? No, they didn't. But yeah, they have millions of them in a warehouse. They didn't do that great place to put. And with military service being generational oftentimes, I mean, my dad, my grandfather, skip a generation, and then three more generations back, all served in the army. If I had known years before my dad died, what was a eligible tool? He wouldn't have been spending over $1,000 a month on medicines.

Keith McKeever 42:26

Yeah. It's crazy with the VA can do for you. I had a neck issue not nonservice connected, just had tightening in my neck earlier this year. And I went in this Yep, you know, those muscles are extremely tight. Let's go to physical therapy they sent me there. When I don't know like eight different appointments, they gave me a neck traction device and little electronic thing. It's got to be 2000 or $2,000 worth of stuff they just gave me. And I can kind of just do treatments at home if it kind of bothers me. And I really painful nights, I'll put the electronic thing on man just really massage, massages my shoulders. But it's like, that's one of those things where I didn't even know they really made anything like that. And I definitely wouldn't have went out and spent 800 or $1,000 on one myself. I just don't wish it. You know, you go and get those treatments and get the help. It's amazing. What they can do for you when

Jane Babcock 43:20

Oh, I know this works terrible. I didn't expect video. I thought that's going to be just a recording for podcast so fine, fine. No. Well, so but if you have hearing loss, or if your grandfather served and he has hearing loss, go to the VA the most the hearing aids across $100.99 times out of 100 most veterans over the age of 70. Their income is going to be low enough after they subtract off their out of pocket medical expenses. Like their Medicare and their supplement and all that stuff. That they're going to get two hearing aids for free. Hearing aids glasses. Come on. There's no reason for grandpa to say what you say.

Keith McKeever 44:06

What do I mean? totally legitimate hearing loss not selective.

Jane Babcock 44:10

Exactly. That's what I tell my guys every time they Oh, yeah, I went to the VA guy but hearing aids is a great method. Yeah, no more selective listening.

Keith McKeever 44:17

Yeah, I gotta I gotta Oh, and he'll be he'll be like, hold on. I gotta turn it off off his wife mode. Yeah, every time he does it, it's hilarious.

Jane Babcock 44:29

And it's incredible the quality and I have veterans that because like myself, my hearing loss is not service. Mine is a natural progression. Mine is low tones. Most noise induced hearing loss is from the high tones, which is why you guys have a hard time hearing us women. But because mine was low tone. I had a hard time hearing you guys. So especially when my veterans would call me on the phone. I struggled big time with the phone. But now you get the hearing aids Can Bluetooth and or you get a little gadget that goes on your phone? And then

Keith McKeever 45:06

yeah, so crazy thing for Bluetooth because I got these like little cheap little earbuds ago with my Android phone. And I'm always popping in popping them out, do I, I don't want to have hearing issues, but I'm just saying, let me kind of cool who's just automatically connected all the time? Yep. Good answer, and boom, it's already in there. You know, obviously, it's probably a lot more comfortable than your buzz all the time. But,

Jane Babcock 45:26

and the first time I went to church with a mine, often to the church, I didn't know they had this thing called a loop. So it's a Bluetooth system that you will find in conference rooms and everything else. But I walked in, and also that heard this click, and then I could hear, like, 10 times better. Wow. And it's the same thing at conferences, large conferences, I'd walk into the conference room, click, all of a sudden, I'd be able to hear the speaker up in the front of the room that didn't realize that they were on a hot mic.

Keith McKeever 45:57

Oh, I bet. It's interesting from time to time. Sometimes. When people don't know the microphones on, I mean, am I gonna lie? When I was in Bangkok? We had radios all the time. I was probably caught on the Hot Mic a few times. Yep. Like everybody in my career field was but I was gonna gonna ask you, since you're kind of talking about the different claims and stuff. What are what's the best way to prepare? So you go you go into your VSO, you fill out all the paperwork, everything you got the exam, a cmp exam, right? What's the best way to kind of prepare for that, like paperwork wise, mentally, all those things I know, it's kind of a stressful thing to like, go into a building, you don't know you're sitting down with somebody that you haven't talked to yet, and you're trying to explain the exam. You got to prepare yourself, obviously got to go in and tell your truth, your information, but how do you get somebody prepare for that the best way?

Jane Babcock 46:50

Well, the steps I used to use as a CVS Oh, I would always ask veterans, what branches serve in when did you serve? And where did you serve, because that could influence what you might have been exposed to? What was your military occupation and stuff. So think about exposures. And then think about injuries and think about? Well, I jumped off the back of the Deuce and a half, we were on a convoy from Camp Anaconda to someplace else, and I was supposed to be an anaconda. But my note, ankle swole up and I was at this other base for two days, by the time I got back, you know? Well, you don't go to the TMC. So that's where your buddy statements, your witness statements, your spouse that talks about, you know, he used to play softball on Wednesday nights. And he didn't, he had to stop because his ankle kept rolling out on him and stuff like this. So think about those things ahead of time, the VA looks at any injury or illness caused by or aggravated by service, that is a chronic detract from the quality of life, and has a current diagnosis. So if you haven't been diagnosed yet, you can't claim PTSD, if the guy with the big certificate on his wall hasn't officially declared you as having PTSD,

Keith McKeever 48:04

putting it in your medical records, after some sort of break,

Jane Babcock 48:08

you can go to the Vet Center, you can go to a counseling center, that Center is a great because those are all combat counselors, but they can't do an official diagnosis. So what they're going to do is send you over to the behavioral health guys over at the VA, who are then going to look at all their notes, they're going to talk to you for a little bit, and they're going to say, You know what, I agree with your counselor. I'm officially declaring you as having PTSD. I'm the guy that can prescribe medication, I'm the guy that can diagnose you. I may not have seen you until today, but based on the notes of your counselor at the Vet Center. So that center is often a good place to start because it gives you that opportunity to talk to a another combat veteran. And be that sense of okay. You're not just here to write a prescription for

Keith McKeever 48:58

me. Yeah, I don't know if I ever told you when I when I call for the very first time mental health right being as transparent as possible, when I called last year, and I was like, Look, I need to talk to somebody got some issues going on. And the first thing that the person asked me on the phone is do you what do you just want medicine? Or do you want to actually talk to somebody? And I was like, What kind of question is that? I want to talk to somebody, right? You know, talk about your feelings, whatever, all these different things, whatever. But like, I was really set back by the whole comment of Do you just want medicine? Like no, like, I get it. Some people do. Some people just want the pills, like they just want whatever. Right? But it just seems so wrong. That that's the first impression that but I blew it off. I'm like, okay, you know what, maybe it's just that person that day that I caught whatever but it was it was really kind of upsetting. Because I knew like I wasn't in I was not in a suicide. Don't state or something like that. But I knew that there were some things in my past that I like, you know what it's time to talk to people work some of these things out. But my main, my mind went to somebody who's on the ledge, who has just waited way too long.

Jane Babcock 50:14

It gets a smartass comment like that

Keith McKeever 50:17

that's, that's very general to me that that's keeping awake at night, just knowing that that happens to some people. And that's a that's a fork in the road, you're going one of one or two directions, you're either going to end up going the direction you want and getting the help, or they're going on a downward spiral. And we all know that ends up ends up statistics look,

Jane Babcock 50:39

yes. And that words have amazing power, they can help and they can hurt in a heartbeat. And that kind of response tells me okay, the person on the other end of the line, obviously is not military. Yeah, and probably has not suffered a lot in their life where they might consider that you need somebody to talk to. And besides which you walk into the clinic, they're not going to prescribe you meds on the first time unless you have a history that they can look at. And unless you've maybe had medication before, but even then they're gonna ask you questions, you know, what's going on? What are your symptoms? Let's talk about this, you know, very few doctors are going to risk just dropping a drug on you that might interact with something you're already on. And so, you know, have you standing on a cliff that night?

Keith McKeever 51:39

Yes. You know, you think you had mentioned that in a cold house room kind of side neural net is, you should really look at all those prescriptions that are giving you and talk to talk to the pharmacist about you know, he's gonna interact in that way. Yeah, the side effects on the side of pill bottles for a reason.

Jane Babcock 52:02

And wait two weeks, and there's a reason why they give you that little stock paperback book every time you get a new drug or get a med. So meanwhile, again, GM in the garden. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you

Keith McKeever 52:16

kind of do blindly trust. It's a sad fact of just being a patient in the medical setting. If you just kind of trust what they give you is fine. But that's not really the doctor specialty, you know, you come up ahead up with this bill.

Jane Babcock 52:30

No, it's not. And it depends on the doctor in the clinic. Yeah, I've had guys come here from other states from other VAs, and they're taking 12 different drugs. And they're saying how, you know, they take eight in the morning and for the night. And I said, are you hungry for breakfast after you eat those? Because then they go to the doctor here, and I said, Look, you need to first talk to the pharmacist, oh, and then find out which ones are harmful to potentially interact, because maybe that's what's causing your symptoms, maybe that you complain that you have ants crawling on your skin all the time. Well, guess what? It may be a nerve thing going on with the meds that you're taking, that's making you feel like your skin is crawling. Or that may be causing you to have the bird. Maybe if we switch it to this medicine, it won't interact with that medicine and you won't be like pipes all the time.

Keith McKeever 53:26

It's just gonna go there, you know, I think not medicine expert was ibuprofen or Tylenol one of them if you take it too many times, you can cause ulcers and stuff like that. And obviously, that could lead to all kinds of issues along the digestive tract. Like, you got to think about those things. That's why when I've gone to my doctor, like do you take anything for them? Like, no, I really don't like to take a lot of those, like, traditional painkillers, because I don't want my stomach to get messed up at all. Like, I'm not addictive personality, but like, I just I would take water one here and there. But after a handful of days, like okay, we got to treat the problem. The pain, you know, and so let's figure out what like my neck. I waited way too long on that or like you take anything and I'm like, nope, like okay, we'll start taking some wherever it was kind of relax the muscles a little bit and I'm like, okay, and like it was a gift by nature. I really don't like to matter of fact, I threw some ibuprofen away out of my medicine cabinet the other day that was expired already. And it was three quarters of like, I was like, Okay, I gotta get rid of this dispose of it properly or whatever, but, but I was like, yes, yes. How it frequently. I take it personally, but ya know what all those things are in the body, right, you know, you'll get one body felt like you can go to the store and pick out a new one. Yeah. So

Jane Babcock 54:45

yeah, I had a guy come out of the Wounded Warrior unit out in Colorado. And they had busted him twice out there because he failed to show up at formations and and they caught him sleeping during duty. I mean, his duty basically was sitting, you know, answer their phone if it rings. Yeah. But they had him on so many drugs they had about drugs to help him sleep, they had him on drugs to help him wake up, you know? And it's like, okay, this is a young kid. He got here and the first thing the doctor did was said, Okay, we're gonna wean you off all these and within two weeks, he was off half of his meds. Wow. You know, and he goes, Oh, my God, I'm actually awake.

Keith McKeever 55:33

For the Sudafed. I mean, I mean, that Sudafed, and not getting a lot of people out, you know, you can take out for allergies, you just take the wrong thing. And you can just have that effect, you know, like sleeping on post. Yep. There's a reason in in Air Force Security Forces, those that go to the nuclear field, on the PRP status, whatever it is, I was never that, but like, there's virtually no medicines they're allowed to take. Because it couldn't make them drowsy or whatever. And obviously, we can't let our nukes fall into their own hands. That would not be says Zach, that would be disastrous, an understatement. But like, you know, I mean, there's a reason why they don't let them take hardly any medicine, like an over the counter, like you got allergy stuff, you probably not gonna end up there. Yeah, attacker that Sudafed, or something like that's gonna knock you out. And that has potentially terrible ramifications for yourself.

Jane Babcock 56:31

But if you're on the outside world, if you're a veteran already, and you're taking a lot of medications due to super messed up joints and everything else, and mental health issues, and whatnot like this, and GERD, because you've taken so many since then, you shouldn't have to pay for those if it's because of your service. And even if you do have to pay for him, because it's nonservice connected. You shouldn't have to pay full price. So if you're living low, because maybe you've been laid off from work because of COVID. Maybe your income is reduced because you're not laid off. But you've they've reduced your hours, or things like that. Or maybe you're in treatment, so you're not working. Well, you can go to the VA and say this is my income minus the out of pocket medical expenses that are paid for all my wife and kids. Oh, you have a family of four trying to live on this much money. Well, that's low 130% of the poverty level. So we're going to give you your meds for free. You're only rated 40%. So you don't get the free minutes. Oh, but maybe we should be rereading you owe now you're 50% Now your meds are free. So there's a progression inside the VA Health Care System. If you retire your income changes. Go back to the VA and say I want to take an income test or a means test. And they'll say okay, what's your income now? Well, last year, it was 60,000. But this year, because I'm on Social Security, my wife's on Social Security. It's 50,000. But we're paying, I'm paying for Medicare, and I'm paying for supplemental insurance. And she's paying God forbid, Cobra you know what, your income is actually only 20,000 After you take off all those expenses? Oh, you're gonna get free health care, free, you know, can't do anything for your wife, she's gonna be in corporate. But until she's 65 Every little bit helps. So, but yeah, now you're gonna get those free glasses and free hearing aids.

Keith McKeever 58:43

Yeah, so $100 pair of glasses is, you know, and I don't know, hearing aids costs, but I mean, that all adds up. You know, your eyesight can change every, you know, couple, I mean, it could change pretty rapidly. But you know, you get their free Google Glasses this year, and you get a free five years from now, as $200 for the glasses, let's say $1,000 and hearing aids or

Jane Babcock 59:04

$5,000 hearing aids,

Keith McKeever 59:06

or whatever the costs are.

Jane Babcock 59:09

And maybe that CPAP machine they bypass BiPAP. Or that CPAP because you snore like a Mack truck. I'm the snore in my family. But I'm the one with the CPAP machine too. And you know what my husband spends all night sleeping with me and that going into the guest bedroom.

Keith McKeever 59:31

You know, that's so that's that's there's nothing like snoring to to cause issues in the relationship. Like I was telling you earlier I I've already had that sleep test. Maybe I need to get again because I'm a snore too. I mean, I'm just over there. I'm chopping down the whole rainforest in the in the night. And I Breathe Right strips have made a difference. My wife even said that I've been trying it for like a week and she's like, it's amazing. It makes a difference because it's not gone but it's Yes, it's manageable.

Jane Babcock 1:00:01

And remember, if you are snoring, or you have episodes of not breathing, you know, your breath isn't the end, then out, if it's stopping, then you're depriving yourself of oxygen, which means that your organs are all being deprived of oxygen. Your heart is an organ. If it's not getting the extra, the oxygen it needs, it will let you know one day when you grab your chest and fall to the floor.

Keith McKeever 1:00:33

Yeah, yeah, it's a central thing for for life. It's, and that would be scary to me, because I don't I don't know that you really know. I mean, until you go get tested. Of course, think about all the single veterans that are out there and don't have somebody that's sleeping in the bed next to him. And elbow. Yeah, to be like, Oh, my God, are you okay? Like, just stop breathing for like, 30 seconds, like, I could hear it, you know. But, you know, if you don't have that somebody that can look, look after us, that's kind of scary. It's kind of like gambling with your life in some ways, let's say, you just never know when your time is going to be there. So

Jane Babcock 1:01:15

you don't want to be falling asleep behind the wheel and alcohol hitting you twice as hard as it should. And next thing you know, you're getting a DUI and blah, blah, blah. So

Keith McKeever 1:01:26

that's how things spiral out of control. And once again, bring it back to the to the elephant, a ruin in veteran world of suicides, like those are the kind of things that just kind of evolve back into playing a factor in those kind of things. So this is, which is a shame. But you say something about, like medicine, in this transition to another question I have for you because I feel like this is where one place where they've done a great job. For me, the pharmacy has been amazing. I go into my doctor says I want to prescribe something. And it's either go to the desk and sign in, it's already in like 10 minutes, or they just mail right to my house. And in refills. They make it really easy. You just go online. I mean, there's your technological challenge, that may not be the easiest, but it's easy for me, I just, I just refilled some prescriptions the other day. And it takes a few days to get there. So you know, plan it out before you run out. But it's easy, just come back to the house. It's, it's amazing.

Jane Babcock 1:02:28

Well, and one of the tricks that I was taught by the pharmacist at my clinic, you, you go online, you order medicine, it shows up at your house, he said go back online, and check the box, they won't refill it until it's X number of days down the road. Now that comes go back online, click your next refill, oh, gee, I'm gonna be out of refills. Now I've got a month and a half to get my VA doctor to refill my meds. And it may be that he's got going to have to see me to refill it.

Keith McKeever 1:02:59

I factor so it just automatically puts in the system, you want it. And then after that 30 day period or whatever, it just tells the pharmacy that's a loss.

Jane Babcock 1:03:09

So that way you stay ahead on them. But it you know, it also allows me if you're anything like me, sometimes you kind of forget to take certain meds. And so you get little ahead and you're going oh my god that just sent me another bottle so that half a bottle of this well then don't refill it and wait until you're getting closer. But or your doc, you can call your doc and say hey, you know, you can go online and just say Doc, you know, I'm having more and more issues with my GERD and I'm having hot pipes at night and getting muscle spasms in my esophagus when I lay on my stomach. And he'll say, Okay, up, up, you're good medicine. So, you know you're taking it morning in night. Okay, fine. Well, now I'm gonna run out of beds faster. But he can turn around and make that change the next thing you know, bam. Here's a new bottle of meds. Yeah. So it's great having them online.

Keith McKeever 1:04:04

That's a that's a neat trick. I liked it. And it's good for us. All. But

Jane Babcock 1:04:10

yeah, it's good for us. What's our 77 year old veteran who can't hear on the phone anymore? Because he doesn't know that he can get the hearing.

Keith McKeever 1:04:20

Yeah.

Jane Babcock 1:04:21

So what we're gonna do

Keith McKeever 1:04:22

is question because I was gonna ask you like, in your experience, where has the VA really had a success in the last 10 or 15 years like where they just knocked it out of the park? And where had they just come up short.

Jane Babcock 1:04:37

There's been a lot of advances in the VA as far as getting on registries, like the burn pit registry, get on the registry, get on the agent orange registry go on all these different registries they have, because then they send you newsletters of updates, changes, new additions, or they start watching patterns that are happening in you guys because you're on the registry. They're going to look at okay, you Had your blood testing, gee whiz, you know, we got this pattern of guys that seem to be having issues with liver enzymes or something like that. And maybe we need to look more into that and see if it's a specific base, or if it's the general population at that generation that were overseas. You know, okay. So they've gotten better in that sense. And they've gotten better in the technology use, but at the same time, you know, because they're sending us messages, text messages and calls and everything else about our appointments, so we don't forget them. And things like that. Yes. Oh,

Keith McKeever 1:05:42

how many times for every single appointment, they send me a text message and a phone calls, like I already replied, Yes. 35. You know, why? Whatever. It is a different number. Every time it's like, I just reply to this yesterday. I'm going

Jane Babcock 1:05:57

yes. But, and that's good for us. I'm 62. In 1976, we had 31 million veterans. Today, we have 19 million veterans, that's a 12,000,009 out of 12, veteran loss 12 million loss. After those 31, only eight are still alive. So we have 8 million veterans over the age of 65. Many of them suffering, the side effects of the type two diabetes, the ischemic heart disease, the 38 different cancers that come with Agent Orange exposure. We've got the Korean War veterans who had issues with frostbite and things like that, a lot of prisoners of war during those times. So they have malnutrition issues and everything else. And of course, the tropical diseases. And then you have the world war two guys with the radiation and other things like that. Very few of them have survived to this age. But the VA is on the internet.

Keith McKeever 1:07:07

Yeah. And Mr. grieves is for me and you. Yeah. Those that are technologically challenged. I mean, I've got a good friend. His name's Jean, he's 9596, something like that. And He's surprisingly on Facebook. And you know, he can navigate tech pretty good for his age, I'll say. But I highly doubt he's taking advantage of the VAs, technology offerings, when it comes to filling prescriptions or sending a message to your doctor. I mean, I had to get the other day, right. I couldn't get somebody on the phone, and the phone system so annoying. I got a slip of paper for an appointment that I thought was a video chat and is like reading like it's in person. I'm like, What the heck, you know? And so I couldn't get anything. So I went in there, click the right clinic and I sent him a message. I'm like, can you clarify? Like, is my appointment on the 16th to the 20th? Where's it at? Because I have it in my schedule, both legs, like you're telling me this day, I have it this day, different formats. But you know, there's awesome cleared it up. I didn't have to worry. Well, I worry for five minutes trying to get somebody on the phone, then I was like screw it. You know, I'm just going to my health event and send a message. It was four or five, six days before I was like, they'll respond to me anytime. And I don't have to worry about the phone system.

Jane Babcock 1:08:23

Yep, exactly. Yep. And it's great for us. But if we're talking about a veteran that's in assisted living, or God forbid, a nursing home

or he's in the middle of cancer treatments. His mind is not on that stuff. Yeah. Whether it's military service related or not. They're not too many of them. Yes, there's some great 90 year old wizards out there.

But too many of them are, you know, finding it difficult to operate a Jitterbug phone much less a smartphone. Absolutely. does this thing work without a cord on it?

Keith McKeever 1:09:15

Yeah, it's hard to see everything and too many tools and stuff and I'm getting I'm every generation is different on that. I mean,

Jane Babcock 1:09:25

and what's it gonna be like when we're older? I mean, when I was a kid, I used to watch the George the Jetsons and think you're gonna be able to have telephone calls on TV. And yet scopes been out there for how many years?

Keith McKeever 1:09:45

It's out there for a while. Yeah. teleport us to like my my actual hospitals like three and a half four hours away, and maybe they'll just teleport me there. That'd be a heck of a lot better than driving.

Jane Babcock 1:09:55

Yeah, I don't know if you can just you know put up, that sends messages, you don't have to talk you just think.

Keith McKeever 1:10:06

I don't know, that could come with some pros and some cons to for some people. They've been by far.

Jane Babcock 1:10:13

Yeah. You know, and that's why people get all upset about privacy and all this stuff. And I'm like, okay, they've got your name, your birthdate, your social security number, your address, your work history, your legal history. And in case of all of us veterans, our DNA, you know, Hey, wake you up much more than they know what color your toilet paper is. So don't worry about it.

Keith McKeever 1:10:42

Or if you have toilet paper based on your social media posts last year? Well, they got somebody.

Jane Babcock 1:10:49

Yeah, you got a billion people over here. And you got a million people over here that are doing all the listening in and, you know, checking people out. If they've never heard the name teeth, or if they've never heard Jane babcox In reference to any other major criminal and or terrorist. Why would they listen in on my phone calls? Now, if my name gets mentioned on a phone call with one of those guys, then they might start listening in on me.

Keith McKeever 1:11:25

You know, it all goes in the data algorithm somewhere picks things up. But yeah, yeah, there's so much data on you out there these days. And we willfully, you know, put our information out there like Facebook, I mean, Facebook is in the data game, they don't really care about your social connections, they just want the data on you. Because people are paying them to promote advertisements in front of you, and, and all that stuff. But I mean, it's become a part of our lives, and we willfully give them all that information on all these social platforms, we, we you bet on clubhouse? Can you tell me club houses and collecting data.

Jane Babcock 1:12:00

And the other issue I have is, you know, it's not just the veterans that are losing out the generations that are not having children. Okay, you're reducing the population. So therefore, and we just lost a whole lot of the population. But anybody over the age of 65, anybody that lives in Bayfield, Wisconsin, or, you know, party Ville, I went through party bill the other day, I couldn't get a cell signal, much less internet, Wi Fi, or any of that kind of stuff. So we're leaving behind a whole section of the civilian population to not only our elderly, but some of our younger to look at the problems they had with school when they made everybody go to homeschooling. How many kids didn't have internet? And yet, that's where they were supposed to school?

Keith McKeever 1:12:59

Yeah, no, I think I think for some people, they had no choice. But financially. Like in the school district, we have my kids, and we kept my kids home all last year. And thankfully, I could financially afford to bump up my internet speed, because I was doing video chats in here for work, and they're doing them on their school thing. And we really had virtually no interruptions, and it's smooth, but then you know that there's some families that are struggling to the point where they can't financially do that. It's just not feasible. And even though they wanted to probably keep their kids home and protect them, they needed to go work, and they couldn't be there to watch them. So they had to go to school, they had to potentially expose them, they had to expose themselves unnecessarily. And that's a shame. But it's, it's a, it's a reality for millions of people in our country and abroad. It's got to do what they got to do. But the older generation definitely gets left behind. When it comes to technology, probably more so than because you're a few years older than me I, I would imagine the generation before the World War Two generation, the World War One generation. I, I have a hard time, like believing that there was as many nursing homes and assisted living facilities, as far as I know, from my limited perspective, is those people would come home and stay with family members as they age. So they handle social connections. When my grandmother passed away, eight, nine years ago, like she was horrified to go into a nursing home. She would prefer to have stayed at home and not really be mobile, and maybe go to the local restaurant once or twice a week and have social interactions versus being stuck away like a prisoner. While there was people around to talk to us people shouldn't want to talk to them. I think it's not, you know, like, you lose those connections. And unfortunately, people go in those facilities and people kind of forget about it. It's kind of end up there and nobody visits. They're not really included in the family things and it's a sad reality, but I think technology makes it even worse, because they can't operate the technology whereas the young people might have five minutes where they can pick up their phone Alright, I'm gonna go FaceTime, grandma, grandpa in the nursing home, well, grandma, that will probably not do FaceTime.

Jane Babcock 1:15:07

Well, if the place, you know, helps them with it, but even if that's all they learned to do is hit the FaceTime button. You know, I'm, I spent, my daughter was out in Virginia, with at that time married with two kids. And I would have her put the computer on the divider wall between the kitchen and the living room, and I would watch the children play and talk to her. So that was great for grandma to see her little babies. But like you said, We've almost gotten to the point where now we're keeping people alive to the point where we're putting them in little storage boxes. Oh, yeah.

Keith McKeever 1:15:53

That's incredibly scary to me somebody my age to think that at some point in time, one of my boys would just throw me in some someplace and just leave me. Oh, Henri enough that I might cause some awesome headaches for some of the staff there?

Jane Babcock 1:16:08

Oh, no, no, no. I've been one of those memory care centers. Or one of those, you know, ordinary people centers where Yeah, you don't want to do that. But they didn't have assisted livings. They didn't have senior livings and things like that when I was a kid, because that's what you stayed at home until you weren't safe anymore. And then you came and you live with your family, just as they do in the Asian societies, just as they do in Afghanistan and Iraq and stuff. That was, but your family generally lived within 2025 miles of you. Now, they live all over the country. And so, and most people hate to say it, but a lot of people live to the breadth of their income, between credit card debt and mortgage debt and card debt and all that kind of stuff. And maybe they can't afford to have mom comes with them. Because they're not going to be there 24 hours because they're both working full time. When my parents, you know, were younger, they could take care of grandpa, grandma, when my grandparents were older, my sister fortunately live near them. But she had to figure out how to squeak sneak over there at lunchtime and drop off laundry and pick up laundry and, you know, coordinate grandma's pharmacy and everything else like that around her working schedule. Yeah, so we've, we've lost the ability to support our families. I think that's part of what drives Young people nowadays to say, do we want children My son doesn't want children. And I'm okay with that. Because, like he said, wow, we're crazy busy as it is between the two of them working two full time jobs. And for a while, his girlfriend worked a full time job in a part time job.

Keith McKeever 1:18:07

To figure out what works best you know, for you, but you definitely have a good point when it comes to finances. We've talked a lot about like the medical side of things. But there's a lot of financial aspects to go into the stuff to you know, go putting your claim in and getting compensated for the physical condition, you have found yourself in physical and mental condition, post service because of the things they get to you're exposed to. But I'm sure you see it a lot in groups too. Like on Facebook groups and stuff. That's one of the reasons that created this podcast was not just PTSD and claims, but transition and personal finances. I see people all the time in these groups, just begging for help, because they're like, I need a job I got laid out, or I didn't really have a plan when I transitioned out and I'm broke, or divorce and I'm broke now and there's so many issues that affect the veteran populations, you know, same things as others, but certain things kind of make it worse when you've got physical or mental issues that I mean, I joke joke around all the time with my knees, I've got knee strain and both knees and I don't think my knees are 36 year old knees. My 60 year old knees like I should not live around or slowly get up off the floor like I do like I it is what it is. Our bodies take a heck of a beating and we

Jane Babcock 1:19:30

we all prosper in some ways. Yeah. And we live with a different mindset. Like you said earlier. You trust the doctor to be writing the right medication. It's like when your commander walked in the room and said okay, guys, this is the vision we have to complete by this amount of time. These are the assets we have an well, you trusted him to have those things there for you. You trusted without question. While you come home and you walk in the door And I'm the king and I'm in charge. And this is how we're going to do things and your spouse going, Wait a minute, I haven't seen you for eight months or 18 months. And I've been running the checkbook, and I've been running the household schedule, and you can go sit down on the couch. Yeah, me permission to do something,

Keith McKeever 1:20:21

I think I've like to this day, when when I came back from deployments, wherever they give you like two weeks of downtime, at least Air Force was doing that. And it was like it, I reflect on it now back then it was cool. Because I was younger, single, I reflect on it now. And I'm like those married people. Like, you need to come back and spend time with your family and friends. But that's probably too much time. For some people too much of an adjustment, I'd argue make them come back and like, keep busy all day, like let them go home for a couple of hours night unwind, let that spouse kind of do their thing and transition to back whatever. That normal looks like your chores and things like that. I really, I really think that was a probably a problem for a lot of married people. I don't know, you know, I mean, I didn't live that life. So I can't say a firsthand knowledge of it. But I can only imagine coming back from the war zone. And then you're stuck at home for two weeks. Like, your spouse has been doing everything for you say 12 months, 15 months, 18 months. And then now all of a sudden, you just got to sit home like a bump on a log. Like, you're gonna want to get up and go do something, but they're gonna be like, No, this is my job. You'd be better off, maybe two weeks off. Exactly. So you're better off just going and doing your job and slowly transition, maybe give you an extra day off this week or whatever. I don't know. I don't know what the right answer is. But I think back on it now. I kind of been problematic for a lot of relationships, you know,

Jane Babcock 1:21:46

the mid shore leaves. I don't know about you. But I watched a lot of people, our unit was used to frag other and support other units. So they would snatch a couple from us and things like that. Okay, we need some mechanics this. So our guys would go the first tour, they go over, and they come back and mid tour. And then they go back and they come back. And they go, I'll never take a mentor leave again. Because they come home and the spouse has her routine. Maybe she doesn't have time off from work, because she's given it up to take the kids to the dentist or the doctor and everything else. And he walks in and he's like, Okay, I'm in charge. And we're gonna go take that we'll take the kids on school today because we're going to go to Disneyland. And she's going no, you're not. No, no,

Keith McKeever 1:22:34

you got soccer practice that day. You can't do that. They got soccer practice, the other kids got batting practice, and no, totally

Jane Babcock 1:22:41

made no money in the checkbook. And you're going wait a minute, you just had all their money sent to you. I was overseas. No, she's paid the bills.

Keith McKeever 1:22:53

paid off that nice. I paid off that 35% interest rate Mustang that you bought when you were young, single?

Jane Babcock 1:22:59

Yes. So you just keep coming in. And like the king, it's not the way it works. And she's mad because you're doing that. And she feels like the kids are against her now. Because dad said we're going to Disneyland. We can't afford it. I don't have time off the kids have these obligations at school, blah, blah. And so now she's the bad guy. And two weeks, things have kind of calmed down, the guy's not so hyper vigilant. And then he snatched out of the family again, and the kids are going, No dad, you can leave. And now she's got to deal with upset kids. And you're off in the sandbox. And maybe you're not paying as close attention as you shouldn't because you've had two weeks to decompress, and you get hurt. Yeah, or you do something causes somebody else to get hurt.

Keith McKeever 1:23:50

This is darn good points. I hadn't really thought about that. Because I didn't have the image of that would have been very difficult. Because I knew when I was in every time I came home, God bless my mom. My mom would do a party for me. Even if I had like he was like in between my deployments. And I just happened to come home for like a three day weekend because I was stationed at Scott Air Force Base, I was only like three and a half hours away two to three hours away. If I came home for a weekend, my mom was like, oh, a party. We're inviting all your aunts and your uncles and your cousins. And I'm just like, I just want to chill. I've just got three days we just I just want to sit in the living room and play some video games and maybe hang out with my friends when I like. Yeah, I'll be your own boss or harder with falling. I mean, but it's like sometimes you just kind of want to chill. You don't want to do all those things. But I can only imagine coming home after your six months or maybe in nine months, come home for two weeks to that and then have to put yourself in the mindset of going right back. I think you'd be better off doing what they did more in Vietnam. And just kind of let guys like Thailand or something for a week or two blow off steam. You're you're in a different environment. You don't have all those family pressures. Drink to your silly party hang out with your friends. Hopefully no, you don't do some do some stupid add to the population or subtract from population. But, you know, kind of unwind in some way, but then go right back, you know, I never come back to family, I'm very, very thankful to this day that I never had to deploy as a husband or father, both when I got back from my second deployment that my wife right after that, so had a few training things here and there, but it wasn't normally gone more than a few weeks. And so very, very lucky, and very thankful for that. I know a lot of guys, men and women can't can't say that they've had to leave their their families to do that transition.

Jane Babcock 1:25:42

Yeah. And then, and then we wonder why these families have such a hard time communicate.

Keith McKeever 1:25:48

And divorce rates are so high. And yeah, it all plays a big factor in this grand scheme of, of issues. That's why I said like, we have the same issues as civilians do. But we have unique situations that make them worse, to aggravate certain things. You know, civilians have marital problems, yes. But civilians don't have a loved one that's gone away to a war zone and seen and done unspeakable things for the last six months or a year. And it comes home for two weeks. It has to be like, Oh, happy, cheerful that is back for Mama's back. You know, the world is all right, for a minute. And, but it's not. And then the children can see there.

Jane Babcock 1:26:23

Yeah, especially guys that deploy four or five times. You know, you deploy once, and you come back and they throw you a big band party. And then you'd play a second time, party smaller. But by the third or fourth time, there's no party. But you're coming back with four times as much anger or four times as much stress, or you're coming back and finding out that your wife doesn't live there anymore. And, you know, yeah, and then we act surprised. But yet previous wars, Vietnam and earlier, there was no second or third deployment unless you asked for it. If you're in Vietnam, and they said, Okay, you've got a, you know, a two year hitch, and you're going to be six more months back in the States, or you want to spend three moments here and we'll have to, we'll eat the other three months. You can get out early. Okay, so you stay a couple more months to Vietnam maybe. Or you decide to re up. They say, Well, you know, this probably lead to another tour. Yes. But I know that. Or I volunteer to go back, some guys volunteered because

Keith McKeever 1:27:44

they guys went to Vietnam three or four times like, Oh, yes, but they can roll the dice on that one. That's

Jane Babcock 1:27:50

yeah, they re enlisted and everything else. So unless you're making a career, but you're not going to go but once. Well, if you're in the reserves for six years, you'll probably go at least twice. You're in the National Guard for six years, you probably go at least twice. There's definitely maybe more than that.

Keith McKeever 1:28:07

And what we do now versus what we what we've done in the past, you go back to World War Two, just kind of different, totally different war. I mean, they're, they're in it to win. I mean, you're hearing like, snakes from the world. War Two, right? The snakes of the world are, yeah.

Jane Babcock 1:28:26

Oh, my dad went over and he got done. My father and my dad, grandfather and father both served in World War Two. My grandfather served in World War One also. And grant, my dad was over there for I don't know, a year and a half, almost two years, and war got done. And he sat in a warehouse on the dock for three and a half months. Doing nothing and waiting to come home, because they were waiting for birth on a ship.

Keith McKeever 1:28:57

Yeah, there's a lot of people to bring back. But the other thing about World War Two is those guys had an opportunity, many units and you would, you would maybe rotate to the front lines for an operation or for a few weeks, and then you would be relieved by another unit and come back and you had an opportunity in terms of mental health to unwind a little bit. You had a say relative safety. Obviously, you had aerial threats and bombardments and stuff that could happen. But you had an opportunity to turn down to Korea, maybe a little bit like that, in some ways. But Vietnam, you're pretty much you know what these guys were in these little fire bases and stuff in the middle the jungle and never it was a downtime. You had a threat from attack no matter where you're at in pretty much in country the entire time. You're there for 12 months. And maybe they said you know, 1314 months, 15 months ago extended or something. But in the war on terror. You're deployed, maybe six months, maybe 18 months. But same thing, you're surrounded by it all the time. You can't get away from the press. If you're in if you're in Iraq or Afghanistan at least. Like it's just constantly around you Single Day, the threat of indirect fire, whatever, just driving on road IEDs is,

Jane Babcock 1:30:05

yes, we can be miles and miles away from you. Whereas in World War One, World War Two, if there was artillery coming, you knew about it ahead of time because it was such a lumbering effort for them to get the artillery near you. And then the rest of your battle was usually you know, where you could see the enemy in your, you know, in his eyes. In Vietnam, they couldn't see the enemy at all. They could go into the bill, and they didn't know whether or not the Asian fellow that they were talking to was combatant, or friendly.

Keith McKeever 1:30:42

Just yeah, just like, you're really not worse. Who's your friend who's your ally? Was people around you all day? You just don't know.

Jane Babcock 1:30:50

And look at how many of our guys got taken out from the sandbox by people that were supposedly friendlies that had a past to be on base. So

Keith McKeever 1:31:01

yeah, for the Allied Army, you know, the Afghan army or Iraqi army or whatever. And well, we know after this weekend's events where they

Jane Babcock 1:31:14

Oh, that was not a thing we could ever end gracefully.

Keith McKeever 1:31:17

No, no.

Jane Babcock 1:31:19

Yeah. Yeah, but we need to change subjects goes door getting close to politics. Absolutely. Maybe they're even with our politics. But that doesn't mean we should have a discussion down.

Keith McKeever 1:31:35

So we kind of covered success and failure. So the one last question I had for you, because we're kind of talking about mental health and stuff. There's some secondary issues. Mental health is what I know a little bit more about, but I know other issues can have secondary issues like PTSD, health, we've said GERD, you could have irritable bowel syndrome, other things like that. So what are some major things that have secondary things that people like might not know about? Maybe other PTSD or some things? Or how do you kind of handle that in the claims process?

Jane Babcock 1:32:04

Okay, so we talked a little bit about sleep apnea, and the deprivation of oxygen from your organs and things like that. Sleep Apnea leads to all sorts of other issues during the daytime, as far as sluggishness, not thinking clearly, perhaps, you know, falling asleep at the drop of a hat, things like that. anger issues, and depression and all that. So those are part of sleep apnea. For our Vietnam guys, they go and they develop Type Two Diabetes early on in life. And the next thing you know, they've got neuropathy, they've got retinopathy, they've got kidneys setting down, now. They're older, they've gone through all those things. And now they're having depression issues. Because they had to retire early at 62, when they wanted to keep working because they needed to keep working to finish paying off the mortgage. And now they're so financially strapped, and they're having all sorts of emotional feelings about anger at themselves and anger at the system and anger at the government. And so

Keith McKeever 1:33:08

understandably angry. Yeah. We deal with that in the actual claims process. How is that actually filed and things like that are looked at by the VA. Okay,

Jane Babcock 1:33:19

so if a veteran files say, for depression, or anxiety related to PTSD, or two type two diabetes, you know, long term illness, things like that. Maybe they've been through some cancer treatments that were service connected and stuff like that? Well, if that counselor says that, yes, that depression stems from the feeling of failure and everything else because he had to retire early or because he's feeling like a broken man at 62. When he should be a healthy man that 62 Getting ready to enjoy his retirement, then they can say, Okay, if 51% of the likeliness, the VA looks at it as likely as not, they're putting things on a scale. And they're saying which side is heavier. If the side that says it's likely to be related to service is just that little bit heavier than the not likely to be service, then the VA has to go in favor of the veteran. So the evidence doesn't have to be exact. It doesn't have to be precise. A lot of times, see VSOs will or both veteran service officers will ask their veteran, go to your doctor and get a letter that states that this is related. The doctor thinks you're saying I want you to swear on your oath that it is related. No. That letter needs to say as likely as not the scale is in favor is balanced. He can't say yes or no, because he doesn't know exactly You know, he could

Keith McKeever 1:35:02

go on certainties I, you know,

Jane Babcock 1:35:05

right off the bat rule requires them to lean in favor of the metric. So if that scale is balanced then they're saying it's 50% that it caused by so or at least aggravated by. So the rules of aggravation apply. You know, okay, yeah, six years ago, you lost your mother, you probably had some depression then. But if now that depression is so much more severe, because now you're feeling like at the age of 65. I have three brothers, they're older than me, they're much more active, they're much more happy. They're much more this than the next thing. And that's where I should be. Because I've led the same life in the same town, doing similar jobs. And the only difference is I went to war. We went through the family traumas and everything else together. And they're handling it well. And I'm going to counseling because I saw too much of death when I was a young person. And I couldn't do anything about it. And I couldn't do anything about my mother's six years ago. But now I'm seeing my own death coming much earlier than it should have been.

Keith McKeever 1:36:30

Yeah, headspace to be.

Jane Babcock 1:36:34

Yeah. And no, 38 year old should be thinking that way. No. But there's a lot of them that are.

Keith McKeever 1:36:40

Absolutely, I mean, depending on what your situations are, and we can vary so much. Yeah. Yeah. So that's so the best advice then really, is to just just examine those issues and talk to the doctor about it and, and kind of figure out what, what's secondary whatnot? Yeah,

Jane Babcock 1:36:59

I mean, because, but at the same time, don't expect the doctor to connect it while you're going. If you haven't had depression issues. And remember, depression, anxiety, and all that stuff. Those are symptoms of PTSD. But if you're suddenly going through a lot of depression, anxiety because of your PTSD, and you start developing irritable bowel syndrome. Guess what? Your body is a very complicated machine. And it will react to the stressors and hormones and endorphins and everything else that are running around inside of you during those episodes. And the end result might be that your colon start spasm. And now you've got bathroom issues. Or one of my guys had a problem called dysphonia. This hydrometer penalty, right? But when he was really traumatic episodes of anxiety because of it, his vocal cords were taken up so much he couldn't speak.

Keith McKeever 1:38:05

Wow. I've never heard of it that happening.

Jane Babcock 1:38:10

So and I've also heard of, oh, it starts with an S but anyways, what it basically amounts to is simply you get so stressed out, you know, people will pass out because of what's going on emotionally and you know, it'll be a trigger to the syncope. You get lightheaded, you know, you start breathing too fast. Your heart rates going too fast. And you're stuck in there like crazy. And you get lightheaded? Well, some people will get so lightheaded, they pass out, holy

Keith McKeever 1:38:45

cow. Or all kinds of new stuff from you, Jane. That's,

Jane Babcock 1:38:50

yeah. Maybe when you were a truck driver, that's not a good thing.

Keith McKeever 1:38:55

When you say that makes so much sense. Like, okay, I can see that happening. But I never before this would have ever thought like you could get that stress like nobody would do that. But

Jane Babcock 1:39:05

that's why guys will say, well, I should be rated higher for my PTSD because I have this many nightmares and stuff like that. Well, but if your handle if you're coping other things, well, if your day to day life is coping, well your marriage is solid, your relationship with your kids is pretty good. Maybe you've talked to your boss, and now you kind of work off by yourself. So that life is going okay for you right now. Then they're going to look at that each level of reading has a different standard. And it's a progression of your symptoms. While you if you're at the point where you're having syncope issues, or you're having IBS, or you know, things that are going to affect your ability to leave your home and go to work, then yes, you're going to be at that 70% rating, which is Yeah, and they're not going to put you at 100% Unless you're in Resident care but They will put you at 70%. And then they can you can say, Look, I need you to look at me for individual unemployability. I can't leave my home when I'm having these two or three weeks of bathroom issues. And I'm good for three weeks, and then I'm right back at it for another two weeks, and then I'm good at for a week or a month. You know, so they can look at those things and say, yes, you're right. You are unemployable. The way the VA looks at employability is if you have one condition, say heart, ischemic heart disease for Agent Orange dice, you're rated 60%. A new employee is probably going to touch and be there's very few jobs where you're going to be able to get to work without driving, and you probably shouldn't be driving if your heart is that bad.

Keith McKeever 1:40:56

That case?

Jane Babcock 1:40:57

Yes. And you're probably taking a lot of meds and need side effects and all that other stuff. So they're gonna look at you and say, Is this person able to have gainful employment? You know, if you're working one day a week, volunteering to four hour shifts? That's looking for employment.

Keith McKeever 1:41:15

Absolutely. So with with that, do you think because we noticed on this last year, I wrap it up with this question. But this last year, Zoom chats and all these things people were wrong. Do you think the VA is going to I? I kind of hope they don't. But do you think that they will adapt their viewing of work differently going forward? Because people can work from home or on their computer, they can do things and be closer to those and more jobs are kind of going that way?

Jane Babcock 1:41:44

Yeah, and they can. And that's, that's an advancement that technology is good for. But at the same time, if you're sitting in room doing a lot of zone chatting, and your personality traits, because of your anger, because of your anxiety, you know, you can't be in the middle of a Zoom meeting and get up that half hour meeting, get up twice to go use the bathroom.

Keith McKeever 1:42:07

So you probably shouldn't be taking the camera in the bathroom.

Jane Babcock 1:42:13

Even on a clubhouse, you don't do that.

Keith McKeever 1:42:18

I think I've heard of people doing

Jane Babcock 1:42:19

that. So yeah, it's still going to have yes, they probably will take into account that kind of stuff. But you have to remember there's only certain jobs. You know, if you're a landscaper, you do that on zoo, you know, truck driver, any of that kind of stuff. You know, crane operator, the guy that does the shipping and receiving at the factory. That's right now my son is laid off because they can't get the parts. He just got laid off two weeks ago. He was laid off for a couple months. And then went back to work after they put in all the you know, distancing whatnot at work. But they just shut down two lines, they can't get the parts.

Keith McKeever 1:43:01

If you don't have anything to work on can't work on it.

Jane Babcock 1:43:04

Yeah. So yeah, so there's a lot to take into consideration in today's technology. But if you were smart enough to go into service, and your as fab score was great, and you've managed to pick up a college degree while you're in or a Technical Certificate in something or whatever, then they're going to look at technology and its ability to provide you a job, but then they still have to look at can this person sit still for 40 hours a week and do the things that he needs to do to maintain that job? If if you are temporarily rated as unemployable, say you had to have a couple surgeries, you got to do a lot of physical therapy and all this other kind of stuff. And they say, okay, you know, you got to rate it 80% You're going to be out of work doing all this physical therapy. So we're going to rate your IU for the next six months, and then we're going to look to get Nope, he's still doing physical therapy, another six months or whatever. Then at the end of that they say, Okay, you recollect school, through Voc Rehab, you could go in or you could go and actually they will help you find a job. Voc Rehab is much more than just learning life skills. Like the guy that's newly blind, or going to college. There's a job track program. There's a program to help you if you're looking at starting your business, maybe you want to have a barbershop. Okay, these are the things we need to do to drop the business plan so you can go to the bank so you can talk to the real estate person and you know, do things you need to do to establish your business. Those are all part of what they used to call Voc Rehab. Now it's vocational learning and

Keith McKeever 1:44:54

Voc Rehab is a to describe it but I you know, I actually look at that stuff because somebody had asked me about that. because I'm using my GI bill right now. And I'm pretty much I'm three steps from the from the finish line on my bachelor's degree. But I would have educated myself more as just a veteran and a podcaster on it. And I was really amazed at some of those things that could business thing. I was like, wow, that's, that's really cool. And it's really good to know that. If real estate ends up not working out for me, hey, I could that my back pocket, you know, I wanted to go do something else, whatever that would be. But there's a lot of a lot of cool stuff, because I had that singular vision of this is just education benefits, because I had met other Vets at school that were using it. And that's all I really knew about it myself. And so as I started looking into it, I was like, Wow, it's really cool programs here that you can go about until you get 15 pages deep in the VA website, or even the blog section of somebody's website or something like that.

Jane Babcock 1:45:53

Right. And you also need to check your state state benefits here in the state of Wisconsin, you finished that bachelor's degree on your GI Bill, we have our own state GI Bill, master's degree. Or if you are rated 30% or greater, your family can use it.

Keith McKeever 1:46:18

See yet, and things are different. I I tried giving somebody some advice once on Facebook, and I was like, well, maybe Montgomery is good to go. I kind of set it prematurely. Because I needed to step back and realize I'm an Illinois I listed in Illinois returned to Illinois, they have the Illinois veterans grant pays tuition at all state schools. So it wasn't you lived here. It's like icing on the cake.

Jane Babcock 1:46:40

Yeah, if you lived here in Wisconsin, and you're not rated at all by the VA, but you entered service in California. You live here for five years, you get it?

Keith McKeever 1:46:49

Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. So

Jane Babcock 1:46:53

I tell folks, when they're getting ready to transition, you're going to take a job to St. Louis, which side of the river you can live on. Because maybe it's a better idea, if you live on the other side of the river. And you add 15 minutes to your commute or half an hour to your commute instead of, you know, 10 minutes, now you're commuting 40 minutes. But if you get four more years of college education, maybe you should think about living in the other state. So you know, never just assume that where you are is going to be the best. I know when I first became a CVS song, I had just finished using my state GI Bill, which only paid 50% of my tuition at that time. But in New Jersey at the same time, they get $75 A month or $75 a semester toward books. Do I want to live in New Jersey? No. Yeah, look to outside of where you're going, you know where your landing zone is.

Keith McKeever 1:48:01

Everybody needs to have one when they leave, you know, and I said it. I think I've said it once or twice on this podcast that the plan you have when leaving the military that should start the day you join. Because I don't care, you're either in for maybe a couple of years and get injured or four years, eight years, 20 years, 30 years, your day is gonna come, you're gonna get out there retire, whatever, you even if you stay for 20 You're getting out of 3840, maybe 45? Depends if you join later, you still have an extra 20 years of your life left you have a whole nother career you have a whole nother life you need to plan appropriately for

Jane Babcock 1:48:37

Yes. And you need to think about the long term. Because with service being generational, if you find out that there's a benefit that's available to you, is it available to your older generation, your uncle, your you know, second guessing. And you know what word,

Keith McKeever 1:48:58

you need to know what's coming down as well. And that's why I'm, you know, I'm a proud member of the VFW in the Legion of stuff. And when I get their newsletters, it's awesome. That's kind of where I get a lot of my updates on things. And you know, it's nice to know like, I don't know that much about it, but like the Forever GI Bill. Like some things like that, like it's really cool. I mean, it doesn't affect me on the generation before. But it's nice to know for this newer generation is coming out. Hey, you guys, you guys get that like, that's awesome. That's amazing. Take advantage of it.

Jane Babcock 1:49:30

Right now. I'm going to pitch. I am on LinkedIn, Jane Babcock really certified veterans benefits educator, hook up with me. I will send you the links to all the significant parts of the benefits that I teach. And that way you'll have oh, she said something about home loans. I remember go to this link up. There's the brochure on home loans. You know, there's the four page booklet on hormones. There's a four page booklet on vocational rehab rotation. Oh, my aunt just died and my uncle served in Vietnam. Is there anything that'll help him? Well, he has that funeral bill to pay for that year. And if his assets are below $120,000, his liquid assets, not his home car and personal belongings. But so now he's got this significant debt, well, they paid for the funeral 10 years ago, yes, but we get to bring it forward to the year that they actually use that benefit. Use that funeral plan. He might qualify for, for pension for a year, wartime pension, not on top of compensation, whichever is the better benefit. But if he's only receiving 300, and some dollars in compensation, and he's suddenly eligible for $1,500, for the pension, switch over to the pension for a year, then switching back to his compensation. So you're working ways and if you don't know what compensation or pension is, it's eligible, both the veteran and the surviving spouse if the veteran served for time. So that's why a VSO is so important VSOs have to train test they get, they have to sign an ethical statement, they have to get cleared by the VA, and they have access to the system. And then every year they have to attend training.

Keith McKeever 1:51:27

There's no other way to go about it. I could not imagine 10 years ago when I got out, going to the VA website and finding whatever forms I would need, right, because that would just be a disaster itself. But finding all that trying to go through the process like nobody has the time, the patience, any of that, to go through that process themselves. Like that's why you need to go to a VSO you know, and you in probably hundreds of 1000s of other VSOs out there, people are doing the job or have done the job, they have that knowledge they have the information, use, don't try and struggle through this yourself, or don't go to and maybe some of these are good. I know, there's companies out there that you can pay, and they'll get you your rating increase. They're going to take a portion of it I just don't like Yeah, exactly. Remember, the first one I did or whatever, like Nah, they say they're gonna be that, but it's, it's, it's a crock. It's just, it's, I don't I don't know if these were scam, but a lot of ways.

Jane Babcock 1:52:37

It's a service that they are willing to offer, that they're just like a hamburger, you can go to Wendy's. For you can go to McDonald's. Absolutely, you know, but the VSO is most of the time they're a veteran themselves. or and or they have veterans in their office doing the same type of work. And if you're working with a county one or a state one, you have easy access to their box if they're not doing the job for you. Absolutely. And if they belong to an organization, and you move to another state, and county or state one gets cross accredited to the organization's like, I held five of them on ours vs cbsl. So if a veteran walked into me, and he just moved here from Pennsylvania, and he said, Oh, I'm already I'm already claimed repped with the VFW. Okay, sign a release, saying that, specifically, my name and my office are allowed to see your file and act as your representative from now on. They sign it, fax it in, and or now they scan it and or they send it electronically now. You know, it's just like signing it a bank.

Keith McKeever 1:53:50

I just went through it, you know,

Jane Babcock 1:53:53

and I could look in the electronic network and see in the VA up, here's your file. Yep, here's all the oven. Oh, they scheduled you for an exam last week, and you're no longer Pennsylvania. That's where they sent the letter. So we need to call and tell them your new address and telephone number. And to reschedule because you're not gonna drive all the way back to Pennsylvania. So we would do those kinds of things. That's where it be so they can see things right away. And you walk into that VSO office and say they found a lot of spot on my lungs. You now have a terminal diagnosis. Give me a copy of that diagnosis. We send it to the VA their claim is going to be expedited from the desk.

Keith McKeever 1:54:41

They did that make sense? But that's good to know. I mean, a lot of people

Jane Babcock 1:54:47

Yeah. And they have access to the VAs email system, which has all the telephone numbers so that you know, I would find me Do you work in publications logistics, can you give me box up the VA,

Keith McKeever 1:55:03

right there, because we all know the VA and phone numbers and getting somebody on the phone is a difficult task. So if they got, they got the connections,

Jane Babcock 1:55:10

we their extension numbers,

Keith McKeever 1:55:14

you have to check your 15 minutes of paying for.

Jane Babcock 1:55:17

Exactly, exactly. Or we can just type modern email, you know, absolute so, you know, so that they're, they're paid.

Keith McKeever 1:55:28

You should be so and I correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the VA has a list of all where you can find them. You can I think you can put in a search and things like that.

Jane Babcock 1:55:36

I got mine around LinkedIn, and I'll send it to you. But yeah, LinkedIn, there you go. list I send out has that VSL list on?

Keith McKeever 1:55:45

Absolutely. If I if we leave this with anything for anybody, you're on LinkedIn. Or if you don't happen to be on clubhouse, find Jean on there. And I'm on there to you know, find find both of us. Connect with us if you can't, if you can't find Jane, send me a message and I will pass it along.

Jane Babcock 1:56:03

Just about any veteran on LinkedIn or on clubhouse. Where's that V lady? Oh.

Keith McKeever 1:56:12

Because of it. You know, when people are struggling, maybe maybe that resource, you know that I've seen you jump in those rooms, listen to 510 seconds of somebody's problem and boom, you're like, Okay, here's who here's what you need to talk to. Here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to tell your VSO whatever

Jane Babcock 1:56:30

evidence you need to gather. And if you are in media, be it television, or radio, and you have a family member, or you are yourself in it, please connect with me. The VA is only on the internet. They have all these wonderful colored brochures that are in the lobby of the regional buildings, which are locked up because of COVID Kick going on. Nobody goes home anyway, you go to your little so how are they are veterans going to learn anything. I keep poking the VA and I know the acting Undersecretary personally. And I know all the assistants to Secretary McDonald, and they all know me. So

Keith McKeever 1:57:19

believe me, I can keep poking the bear.

Jane Babcock 1:57:22

I'm going to call eBay right, I end all my messages with who's going to make it to TV first of bed, it's me. I don't have to be on camera. But I'll be more than happy to tell you what the veterans need to know. And your reporter can put it out there. Or I can get already a show like this

Keith McKeever 1:57:43

where the you know, that's where the information gap is. And that's one of the reason I want to do this podcast was to talk about all these issues, particularly this one, but all these different issues and just another avenue of getting the word out about benefits, whether it's VA benefits, or it's a college benefit for some school or some information somebody picked up along the way, the College of hard knocks, right, and they learn. They learn that way or the other way and, and they want to pass along so some other vet can listen to it and be like, Oh, I can do that, too.

Jane Babcock 1:58:14

You know, and I'll be happy to send you the links that you'd be turned around to send to the next

Keith McKeever 1:58:18

guy. Absolutely. We got to share exponential growth. We will leave it at that I'm gonna drop in the back room, but I definitely gonna leave it at that Jane because we have to work together. Because who's gonna who's gonna look out for us? Except for us? Exactly. Four together.

Jane Babcock 1:58:34

We are a family. Absolutely.

Keith McKeever 1:58:37

I mean, my kids, honestly, my kids, when I talk about like, if I say something about you know, hey, I got a brother in trouble or I got a sister trouble, whatever. They know. I'm not talking about my blood sister. They know I'm talking about my brothers and sisters. There's been times on clubhouse for people that have problems. And they're like, Dad, why are you so on the phone? You know, like, you know, you'd be like, I got a brother sister of trouble and they need me right now. They need somebody. Yep. So if it if it happens to be me, or happens to be somebody else, and I'm going to stick with them until it sounds like they're getting the help that they need or going down there down the road. But we got to look out for each other. Because the VA is not necessarily looking out for us. I hate to say civilians aren't looking out for us. But we're kind of out of sight out of mind. We're, I don't know, percentage wise. I mean, you say 1%. But I think it's more like five 6% or something that the population has served or something. But we're very small percentage no matter what. And we all look out for each other. If we go nobody else is so great. Anyway, yeah.

Jane Babcock 1:59:35

I hate it when they all say oh, yeah, we're pro veteran. What are you doing to show that?

Keith McKeever 1:59:45

Absolutely. Is it? Is it all

Jane Babcock 1:59:47

I've got a way to show it? Connect with me?

Keith McKeever 1:59:50

Absolutely. Anyone for a second and we'll wrap this up?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai